Why I think Snowboarding is dangerous
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myrto
January 29, 2007
Member since 10/4/2001 🔗
259 posts
While I have nothing at all against snow boarders I do have a few concerns regarding the safety of others who share the slopes with them.
I feel that people are always at more risk of being hit by a snowboarder (than a skier) on the slopes for a couple of reasons.
1. When going down a slope a snowboarder's back is always to one side which always will limit the range of perpheral vision. No matter how aware or cautious you simply cannot have as good a range of view as you can skiing.

2. A good skier can actually turn or stop on dime. A snowboarder cannot. They can be pretty good but in colllisions, where matters of inches can determine the difference betweeen an injury or not, I strongly feel the snowboarder will always be at a disadvantage.

Does anyone agree with this assesment or am I way off base.
JohnL
January 29, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
way off base

Snowboarders are only slightly more dangerous than skiers 'cuz they are more likely trip on their baggy pants.

Snowboarder are safer than Myrto, who luvs to throw hand grenades into croweded rooms.
myrto
January 29, 2007
Member since 10/4/2001 🔗
259 posts
Sometimes I do like to stir it up. Guilty as charged .

But I am serious about this. I have been watching this for a while.
Girlboarder247
January 29, 2007
Member since 01/2/2007 🔗
110 posts
Uhmm...your number one reason does kind of make sense, except when a snowboarder is making a heelside turn they are looking downhill and when skiers traverse across the hill(I know some of the more dangerous skiers wouldn't even consider traversing ) , their shoulder is downhill; therefore, they lack peripheral vision. It is hard to say if skiers or snowboarders are looking where they're going more often.

Number two doesn't really make sense to me. I've been snowboarding for 7 years and I skied for 8 years before that...and I promise you I can stop a whole lot faster on a snowboard. It is hard to compare which can stop faster because everyone is at different skill levels, but I do agree beginner skiers can stop faster than beginner snowboarders because they can cheat and make a pizza .
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KevR
January 29, 2007
Member since 01/27/2004 🔗
786 posts
I think it has more to do with the age group generally attracted to 'boarding (teen males), and their inhibited decision making skills due to the immaturity of their brains -- than the specifics of boarding technology or boarding technique - although i agree it plays a role.

Along those lines, boarding technique tends to be simpler than skiing and I think this plays into it being at lower "entry point" for a basic skill level, and this feeds into problems on the slopes. (as you suggest)

Also on the "environment" front, the ideas surrounding boarding and 'skate culture', as is marketed by the manufacturers and other vested interests in the industry also play a role in my opinion in terms of individual behavior.

The result: the slopes can be filled with poor decision makers, using a minimum of technique to control themselves, mixed with ideas about how to act in the 'sport', none of which mesh well with their fellow skier or boarder.
Murphy
January 29, 2007
Member since 09/13/2004 🔗
618 posts
Quote:

While I have nothing at all against snow boarders I do have a few concerns regarding the safety of others who share the slopes with them.
I feel that people are always at more risk of being hit by a snowboarder (than a skier) on the slopes for a couple of reasons.
1. When going down a slope a snowboarder's back is always to one side which always will limit the range of perpheral vision. No matter how aware or cautious you simply cannot have as good a range of view as you can skiing.

2. A good skier can actually turn or stop on dime. A snowboarder cannot. They can be pretty good but in colllisions, where matters of inches can determine the difference betweeen an injury or not, I strongly feel the snowboarder will always be at a disadvantage.

Does anyone agree with this assesment or am I way off base.




The lack of peripheral vision is a real issue but it has more with being hit rather than hitting someone. The concern is not seeing the person coming from behind which is really the responsibility of that person. Regardless, I tend to ride on the right side of the trail (I'm goofy footed) to try and make sure people can't come up from my backside.
kennedy
January 29, 2007
Member since 12/8/2001 🔗
792 posts
Nope sorry Myrto you're off base. First of all the peripheral is plenty to see to either side as you descend. Despite that dont forget that it is the uphill skiers responsibility to yield right of way to the downhill skier or rider. By that rationale as the downhill rider I shouldn't have to worry about anyone behind me, just those to either side and ahead of me.

As regards stopping, trust me I've gone from warp to stop in sparrow's fart time on numerous occasions with no problem. There's been plenty of times where I've gone near parallel to slope when stopping, which by the way is a hell of a thing to see, and trust me that is some serious braking right there.

This thing has been beaten to death in the past and I think many here will agree that 2 planks Vs. 1 plank is only as dangerous as the pilot. There are plenty of idiots on both sides of the fence. For every story I hear of a "a snowboarder cut me off" I can give you the same one of a skier cutting me off. It also doesn't help that we have a very high skier count per acre here in the east or that it's not uncommon to get groups of people with no clue what they're doing roaming the slopes like mobile death traps.
snowcone
January 29, 2007
Member since 09/27/2002 🔗
589 posts
I think KevR has it just right ... its an age/culture thing. I watch a bunch of fantastic boarders in UT this past week and they had absolutely nothing in common with the teenage idiots on our local slopes. You can be just as bad a skier ... don't blame all of the 'takeouts' on boarders, I've seen some skiers that were accidents looking for a place to happen.
myrto
January 29, 2007
Member since 10/4/2001 🔗
259 posts
Well I am willing to admit that it may be possible to turn or stop as sharply since a few of you state that you can. It doesn't seem that way when I watch them.
Marketing is definitely a factor in the teen male category. It is amazingly job of marketing effective when you factor in how many guys willingly risk a collision between a rail and there future children for the sake of a thrill.
gatkinso
January 29, 2007
Member since 01/25/2002 🔗
316 posts
When boards decided to sit down and rest in the middle of the trail - three abreast sometimes! - their boards basically form a fence blocking the way.

It is annoying as hell, inconsiderate, dangerous... and all too common in these parts.

That said.... BRING ON ALMOST HEAVEN!!
skier219
January 29, 2007
Member since 01/8/2005 🔗
1,318 posts
I am a skier.

There are plenty of safe, aware boarders out there. In general, I am wary of teens on skis or boards, as they don't seem to be too aware of their surroundings or careful about the people around them. And I occasionally run into jerks on both skis and boards who are reckless and unsafe. I think you have to watch out for skiers and boarders until you know what their mode of operation is. Give the dangerous ones a wide berth and hope they don't hit you from behind.

Where I think skiers and boarders should be separated is in lift lines. I would love to see a boarder-only line and a skier-only line feeding into the lift. I think it would really make things flow smoother. And it would be great to have a boarder area at the top, off to the side, where they can stop to strap in without blocking traffic. I don't blame the boarders for this -- I blame the ski areas. They don't make any effort to accommodate the differences between skiers and boarders where it could really make life easier for all. Boarding showed up after skiing, and nobody has every really changed the infrastructure of ski areas to handle the needs of boarders (which would make skiers happy too).
Roy
January 30, 2007
Member since 01/11/2000 🔗
609 posts
While I'm an old thought skier and have many reasons to dislike boards on the trails, I concur with those who state it's the driver, not the car.

Then again, I can probably be accused of some of the same "near misses" that people complain about for boarders. But, when I am in a crowded slope type area, I actually fly through it as fast as I can. Not because I am showing off or trying to be a rebel, but around a bunch of timid skiers and boarders, I'm trying to get the heck out of there. I can ski faster than them, thereby protecting myself from someone coming from behind me and crashing.

If possible, I just stay away from those trails anyway and typically won't have any problems (except when I come over the crest of the hill to suddenly find a gaggle of snowboarders sitting down on the slopes and totally out of sight).
kwillg6
January 30, 2007
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,034 posts
I always wonder why snowboarders pay the price of a lift ticket so they can go to a slope, find a blind spot and sit, usually in packs of three or four, causing major blockage for other customers who would rather get their $$ worth by making runs and getting to the lifts. Maybe it is an age-culture-marketing-fashion thing. The logic is just not there. But in defense of some of the one plankers, I have seen more quality riders lately than in the past. They might even lose the zamboni nickname.(if I spelled it right)
dmh
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/11/2003 🔗
127 posts
I have been curious about this sitting midslope phenomena for many years. That is not to say skiiers don't also do it but it is almost as if boarders are trained to sit, for extended periods, right in the middle of the slope with several of their fellow boarders. I was taught that if you go dowm and can't/aren't ready to get right back up and ski, move to the side of the slope. But it seems boarders are taught just the contrary. Could a boarder perhaps help me understand this?
tromano
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/19/2002 🔗
998 posts
I think boarders are generally safer than skiers.

The majority of people I see on slopes who are seriously in over their heads and beyond their abilities, out of control, are almost always skiers. Almost all the worst crashes or accidents I have seen in the last 2 years involved an out of control skier. The only time a person I know has been hit by anyone it was by a skier.

The average out of control boarder is technically "ok" but exhibiting poor tactical judgment (wow lets get air off that blind roll over!, wow lets go huck that 20 foot rock onto a hardpack flat landing, etc...). The average out of control skier is unable to turn and tactically clueless (has no control over his "line").

This is for i think 2 reasons:

1. The movements involved in the basic use of a snowboard are much easier to learn than those for skiing. Resulting in fewer truly out of control snowboarders than skiers. I am speaking of the well known power wedge straight line down black groomers.

2. Most newb snowboarders are in the terrain park where hey only endanger them selves. Otherwise, they simply sit on he side of the trail where they are easy to avoid.
tromano
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/19/2002 🔗
998 posts
Quote:

I have been curious about this sitting midslope phenomena for many years. That is not to say skiiers don't also do it but it is almost as if boarders are trained to sit, for extended periods, right in the middle of the slope with several of their fellow boarders. I was taught that if you go dowm and can't/aren't ready to get right back up and ski, move to the side of the slope. But it seems boarders are taught just the contrary. Could a boarder perhaps help me understand this?




For my part as a skier, if I could comfortably just plop down on my butt or knees and easily and gracefully get right back up I would.
bawalker
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/1/2003 🔗
1,547 posts
Being that I'm a snowboarder and get to encounter all sorts of attitude on the slopes (rarely but it does happen) towards boarders, I'm doubly convinced it's the driver and not the car as the other poster put it. I'll take it a step further and say it's the ATTITUDE of the driver of the car too.

I actually dealt with the blind spot issue when at Wisp on Friday. Because it was so wonderfully frigid, I had on a face mask, covered with a neck/head hood and finally my helmet and goggles. When riding down with my shoulders paralell to the board, there is a huge blind spot there and would find myself glancing back up to see who was around me and where.

This was only an issue on those green trails where I felt like it was a hazard to navigate the newbies flowing all around me. Mainly because there were the straight liners who would zip by around me without saying "coming up on your right...". Then what was worse was when I was trying to zig-zag between them, they would erratically cut all over the slope nearly running me in the ditch, off the side, etc. The idea of flying off there as fast as possible to get out of the way is an understatement shared by anyone who is advanced... skier or boarder. Whether you are on ski's or a board, stopping on a dime isn't much help when someone runs into you or cuts you off that their equipment runs OVER your skis/board.

When it comes to boarders sitting in the middle of a trail to strap in their bindings... this is strictly their fault. I admit, I did that alot as a beginner but in the last two years I have been able to strap my right foot in to my binding while standing up as soon as I get off of a lift. I've only sat down once this year to actually strap in and that was because the slope wasn't level enough for me to stand and strap without moving. It's a bit tricky to learn, but I did it for the sole fact of not clogging up the trail AND not taking the risk some out of control idiot would straight line into my back injuring me.

In the end... you know where I was the most comfortable without worry and without constantly checking my blind spot? The blacks and most blues. Mainstreet was empty as a mall at 3am. Muskrat/Boulder Run was like a deadly, icy bowling alley since it's a hybrid green/blue. If anything for my own safety I need to fine tune my own expert skills.
wvrocks
January 30, 2007
Member since 11/9/2004 🔗
262 posts
Quote:

I have been curious about this sitting midslope phenomena for many years. That is not to say skiiers don't also do it but it is almost as if boarders are trained to sit, for extended periods, right in the middle of the slope with several of their fellow boarders. I was taught that if you go dowm and can't/aren't ready to get right back up and ski, move to the side of the slope. But it seems boarders are taught just the contrary. Could a boarder perhaps help me understand this?




Think about how you stop to talk with a group of your friends on skis.. Probably shoulder to shoulder in a line that goes down the fall line usually on the side of a run, right? Skis across the fall like so you don't slide away. Well guess what snowboarders do? Same thing, just happens that their equipment doesn't allow for the same orientation of the people in relation to the fall line. If they line up down the fall line they have to talk to the back of their buddies head, not exactly optimal for communicating... Its no vast conspiracy to make skiers mad, its simply a matter of comfortably resting and having a conversation.

That being said, there are certainly good places and bad places to stop and boarders are not alone here. Stopping below headwalls and other spots of reduced visibilty are dangerous. The middle of a trail isn't a great place either and I think if you really watch you'll see skiers and snowboarders stopped in all those spots. I know I see it pretty often.

Personally I don't usually ride with large groups of snowboarders. Maybe 1 or 2 other riders or skiers. In that case I'll stop below the other riders and kneel instead of sit so I'm facing them and not creating a wide trail obstruction. Obviously this wouldn't work as well with a large number of people.

I agree with Tromano too, a skier who is over their head is more likely to be way out of control than a snowboarder in the same situation. There is nothing more frightening to view than a beginner skier in the SCUD missle wedge flying down a crowded advanced slope. Its amazing to me that can stay on their skis sometimes. It almost defies the laws of physics. A beginning snowboarder on the other hand can simply side slip the trail until they get to a spot they can ride. Even if they do try to ride it they will probably fall every couple yards as they tend to get scared of the quick acceleration and lean back causing a fall.

You are going to say that a skier can side slip too. While this is true, I don't see it much, and frankly its a skill that is much more difficult than most think, especially in heavy crud or powder. Its pretty easy to point'em though.

Myrto, like a good skier, a good snowboarder can control their speed and direction at will. In some cases they can actually be better. I patrol on a board and in a lot conditions boarders have a much easier time running a rescue sled than skiers do. I think we can agree that this is a situation where control is extremely important.

In general riding I do agree that visiblity to the heel side can be reduced compared to a skier. Of course a skier can't see behind them either. If i decide to really crank a heel side turn across the slope I'll take an extra glance up the hill to see if anyone is coming. Its technically not my resposiblity since I'm down hill but its the smart thing to do.
kennedy
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/8/2001 🔗
792 posts
I'm going to be honest I can't remember the last time I saw these hoards of boarders sitting in the middle of the slope, seriously. I honestly can't think of a time I've seen 4 or five people sitting mid slope, just to park there. I've seen plenty of people over at the edges but thats fine. If you want to know why we sit or kneel, try standing still with all your weight on your toe edge for an extended period. Much easier to kneel.

Honestly this dumb debate has raged back and forth every freakin season and to be honest I'm pretty sick of it. Face it snowboarding is here to stay I really could care less whether you like it or hate it. Putting on two planks instead of one or vice versa doesn't instantly make you more or less entitled to the mountain. Nor does it make you more or less dangerous or in any way superior or inferior. The fact is that it's all about taking personal responsibilty for your actions. This whole snowboard Vs. skier crap is long dead and should be buried because it's starting to stink. To be honest I thought this was a pretty enlightened bunch on this board but every so often this stupid arguement comes up and I feel like I have to step into the ring and defend my sport. The majority of us aren't punks, we're not dangerous (except to outselves)and we essentially do the exact same things skiers do, we just go about it a different way. Those of us who understand this live in happy and peaceful coexistence. The rest....well screw the rest.
wvrocks
January 30, 2007
Member since 11/9/2004 🔗
262 posts
AMEN Kennedy!!!
Tucker
January 30, 2007
Member since 03/14/2005 🔗
893 posts
..damn snowboarders...why don't you just drag your knuckles over to the park and sit around and look cool with your buddies...go side slip in some of that powder...or go run over those innocent customers practicing their wedge...
kwillg6
January 30, 2007
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,034 posts
Geez.... I didn't know that some folks could get so upset over discussions or observations. If I offended you, Kennedy, there was no intent. It had been quite a while since I saw the mid-slope roadblock until this past weekend when I estimated that over 40% of the folks on WL at t-line were boarders. Most were better on their planks than the skiers who were flailing and doing figure 11s down the hill. I was especially impressed with the younger riders who were very good. One little girl in particular was incredible on her board. Couldn't have been more than 5 or 6, but was riding on down through and around the yard sales going on around her. Regardless of what we ride, it all comes down to the driver and how he/she drives, turns, and parks.
kwillg6
January 30, 2007
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,034 posts
Tucker, was the young lady I saw on a board on WL, Sunday one of your prodigies? She had a pink helment and ripped!
wvrocks
January 30, 2007
Member since 11/9/2004 🔗
262 posts
Tucker, I would but I can't find the park at T-line
kwillg6
January 30, 2007
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,034 posts
OUCH!
wvrocks
January 30, 2007
Member since 11/9/2004 🔗
262 posts
Luckily Tucker knows that I know its not his fault
Tucker
January 30, 2007
Member since 03/14/2005 🔗
893 posts
Yeah Rocks, I was waiting for that one...lol..

and yeah K there were a ton of little rippers out this weekend...that does fits the description of one of the T-line snowboard team members...those kids/teenagers rip and are a blast to ride and work with..we have 15 team members now...when you think about the size of some of those rippin kids it's amazing...we rode the drop during practice a few weekends ago and some of the team members where dissapearing behind the bumps...all I could do was think about riding bumps that were taller than me...
kennedy
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/8/2001 🔗
792 posts
K I'm not aiming this totally at your comment, really more the discussion as a whole.
tromano
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/19/2002 🔗
998 posts
Kennedy,

I noticed you were replying to me in your earlier post.

I think the majority of us skiers, even is we have never tried boarding appreciate the beauty of it and the skill involved. Nothing makes me gape more than seeing a snowboarder carve a big powder line or a hardbooter rip a groomer on a carving board. Also reading TGR has given me a new appreciation for the back county options available to snowboarders like split boards and other things. Awesome stuff.
MadMonk
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/27/2004 🔗
235 posts
I've only seen two boarder/skier collissions. Both were at Snowshoe. They were both the boarders fault.

In one case a boarder was doing some great GS turns down a run at Silver Creek (I think Cascade). He was going faster and overtaking the downhill skier. He widened his turn to his blind-side once and clipped the lady. Thankfully they both appeared fine and the boarder stopped to apologize.

The other was on Widowmaker. I was skiing with my brother and an out-of-control boarder simply ran him over (the guy was trying to tuck the entire run). He got up and kept riding to the bottom. Didn't stop to apologize and when my brother and I confronted him he denied it. We were both pretty ticked that the kid wouldn't even apologize.

BTW, I think it's the rider/skier more than their mode of transport down the mountain. The one gripe I do have with boarders is their slide-slippind down the entire length of a steep. I thought I was going to have a stroke as I watched three boarders side-slip through a foot of fresh in Blue Slip Bowl in Park City a few years ago. It's powder. It slows you down and makes falling almost fun. For the love of God just take a few turns and crash. There's no shame in that at all.
dmh
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/11/2003 🔗
127 posts
Allow me to acknowledge that my previous post was just stupid. It is not that boarders are the only one's to stop in the middle of the slope, creating a very human like fence, but it seems new skiers and boarders did not internalize that part of their lessons NOT to stop in the middle of the slope. Scurry to the side but don't block the slopes. So it is probably an observation about inexperienced skiers/boarders rather than a uniquely boarder issue. I aopoligize to the wrongly singled out boarders who rightly took offense.
wvrocks
January 30, 2007
Member since 11/9/2004 🔗
262 posts
Quote:

but it seems new skiers and boarders did not internalize that part of their lessons NOT to stop in the middle of the slope.




Lessons?!?! We don't need no stinking lessons!!

Thats another part of the problem. Bob and Susie wobble off the bus from FL or GA or DC (kidding)(well not really) and head straight for the top of the mountain. Saw it done on the X-games once and it didn't look too hard. They know nothing of the Responibilty Code or general on snow behavior. Their parents didn't raise them on skis or even ski themselves. Some wonder if its even possible to ski without their "sticks". Its not a dangerous thing in their eyes, its like an amusement park. Unfortunately the truth is often revealed to them in unpleasant ways.

Do your best to educate those which you feel you can. Some of them truely don't know any better and will listen if you offer some advice. Some will know better than you and have to learn the hard way.
kennedy
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/8/2001 🔗
792 posts
Quote:

I thought I was going to have a stroke as I watched three boarders side-slip through a foot of fresh in Blue Slip Bowl in Park City a few years ago.




Okay now that is a crime against humanity. Side slipping a foot of fresh earns you the grand prize of being bludgeoned with your board. Seriously. No I'm not kidding, bludgeoned and then maybe kicked a little too. Oh and feel free to bury them in the slough they've created.
bawalker
January 30, 2007
Member since 12/1/2003 🔗
1,547 posts
You could use their body mass as the formation of major bumps
TLaHaye
January 30, 2007
Member since 02/9/2005 🔗
136 posts
A few years ago, as I berated my then 5 year old for not getting up quickly enough when he fell in the middle of the slope, I watched him get hammered by an out-of-control boarder, and literally blasted down the slope. Pretty traumatic! He was fine, but after that, he stayed with me on the much safer black diamonds. Turned out OK, 'cuz he skied Breck's Lake Chutes with me this week, and they're no cake walk. That collision helped him become a great skier.

Six weeks ago, on very similar terrain, in a similar transition, I skied out of my new binding and went careening down the slope headfirst into ... you guessed it .... a young boarder sitting smack in the middle of a far too narrow slope. Right in front of the kid's mother. I felt like crap, and my shoulder is still killing me.

Bottom line here is that accidents happen to all of us. Regardless, my kid fell, and at five, was just learning how to get up. The boarder I hit seemed to have decided to take a break right in the middle of a far too narrow slope.

We all need to use our heads out there.
Reisen
January 31, 2007
Member since 01/25/2005 🔗
364 posts
Quite a good thread. Most of the replies have been pretty constructive, which is neat to see in such a hot topic.

One thing I have to add is there is no question on who can stop quicker in general. Just as with race cars, the physics of skiing equate to faster stop times for skiiers over boarders, all else being equal (speed, weight, skill level, conditions, edge sharpness, etc.). That's simply a function of skiers having twice the edges to dig in vs boarders. Same thing as cars with wider tires being able to put down more traction.

That said, all things are almost never equal, and, generally, skill level, weight, and speed are going to make much more of a difference. For the same reasons we allow people driving 5000 pound SUV's to drive on the same road as 2000 pound sports cars, skiers and boarders should each be expected to remain within their limitations, speedwise versus the crowd/conditions.

I agree with most everything else that's been said. Snowboarders sitting on slopes are a huge problem, and resorts need to start more aggressively reprimanding them. Likewise, and out-of-control skier is more likely to come flying down the slope versus someone, while an out-of-control snowboarder will fall within 10 feet.

My problem probably stems more with snowboarders scraping up bump runs and ruining lines than anything else. Annoying, but not the end of the world.

Ultimately, I avoid any green run unless absolutely necessary.
kennedy
January 31, 2007
Member since 12/8/2001 🔗
792 posts
The funny thing with bump runs is that I've heard a lot of folks say that boards are great for forming them. Tell you what we'll form them, you ski them. Works for me because I'm not a huge fan anyway, that said the bumps that formed on drop in last weekend were kind of fun but you never heard me say that.
Tucker
January 31, 2007
Member since 03/14/2005 🔗
893 posts
Snowboarding/skiins are both dangerous inherently...what makes them more dangerous are irresponsible skiers/boarders.

blind spot when riding a board - absolutely...riders responsibility-absolutely...

quicker stopping on skis than snowboard- no way, BS... it's the same- pivot your gear sideways and pressure the uphill edge(s)...

snowboarders/skiers stopping in the middle of the trail or in bad locations ignorant of what's going on around them-all over the place...

skiers/boarders being ignorant of their soroundings, not reading signage, pointing their gear strait down the fall line out of control and putting everyone on the slopes including themselves at risk-way to prevalent in the mid-atlantic...you can see multiple examples everytime you ride up a lift on the weekends...

skiers/boarders in midatlantic treat resorts like amusement parks-they don't even consider they can get hurt or hurt someone else...hardly anyone obeys signage or even sees it..

Some of the worst I've seen(I work on the slopes about a 90 days a season) are riders/skiers who can make turns and speed through crowds or congested areas...yeah these folks might be able to ski/ride but the people they are turning around might not be able to...what if someone catches and edge or makes a sudden unsuspecting move and you plow into them...it always disturbs me when I see experienced skiers/boarders rip through a crowd...you can see examples of this everywhere as well...to me that is just as irresponsible (if not more, becuase they should know) as going to the top of the hill and pointing you skis downhill without knowing how to stop...

I wear a helmet for when I'm in the park, riding trees, pushing my level of riding, or riding with the idiots on the weekends...

skiers/boarders ,whoever, alot of folks are idiots when they strap their gear on...not the gear definetily the driver...either way it is a scary phenomenon that I have only seen in the Mid-Atlantic...maybe because of density...I don't know

sorry for the rant, snowboard vs. skier is irrelavent...it's irresponsible skier/boarder vs. responsible skier/boarder that should be the description...and yes it is prevalent...and is why I don't even go to some crowded resorts...I'm to worried about being struck by some idiot and can't enjoy making turns...
Clay
January 31, 2007
Member since 04/11/2006 🔗
555 posts
Quote:

I wear a helmet for when I'm ... riding with the idiots on the weekends...




Well that explains why I've never seen you with your helmet off!

Clay
k_alice
February 1, 2007
Member since 11/22/2005 🔗
92 posts
I was slammed by a boarder last weekend... but I've been slammed by a skier before too. I agree that basically it comes down to a sense of responsibility on the slopes. The one thing that is really a boarder issue is when they all sit down at the top of a lift to attach their boards and you have to squeeze through the crowd to access the slopes. My husband boards, but he has "clicker" bindings, so he can just step into them without sitting down - not the rental "clickers" but better ones... anyway, they're no longer making those bindings. I wish there was an alternate binding system for boards that didn't take so much time to attach. (Also a problem for my 8-year-old who is learning to board and it takes him forever to attach his boot.) Especially in the mid-Atlantic, where the runs are relatively short.
kwillg6
February 1, 2007
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,034 posts
This topic has made two very obvious conclusions. The first being that the problem on the slopes is with the idiots who drive/use the equipment and makes bad choices and secondly, a consensus that there are more idiots in the mid-atlantic. Hmmmm... It must be in the water or maybe it was that Three Mile Island nuclear accident years ago that has impacted today's generation of mid-atlantic skiers/snowboarders.
Redman
February 1, 2007
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
106 posts
One way not to get hit is to ride at a resort, like Canaan Valley, with plenty of open space and very low crowds. Sometimes I feel like Canaan is my own private resort with very limited membership. I like that exclusivity...my own private Idaho! T-line was like that in the 90's. (:^O)>>>
Reisen
February 1, 2007
Member since 01/25/2005 🔗
364 posts
Quote:

quicker stopping on skis than snowboard- no way, BS... it's the same- pivot your gear sideways and pressure the uphill edge(s)...





Again, skiers have an advantage in stopping distance. Simple physics, but everything else has to be equal. Skiers have twice the edges, and thus twice as much metal in contact with the snow. Same reason wider tires put down more traction, you're creating more friction to stop your velocity.

But again, things are rarely equal. Weight, strength, speed, and technique have a lot more to do with it, and I suspect lots of boarders can stop faster than lots of skiers. So it's not like the physics advantage gives skiers an insurmountable advantage. But it still exists...
kwillg6
February 1, 2007
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,034 posts
Hey, Redman! I knew you were lurking out there somewhere. How you doing?
SCWVA
February 1, 2007
Member since 07/13/2004 🔗
1,051 posts
I don't think snowboarding is anymore dangerous than skiing. I only worry about the boarders that have shaved heads and pointy goatees, their trouble.

Last March, when I was up at Tline for the Snowy Luau, I was taken back by the number of skiers who were straightlining and blowing by me and my son on Twister, Dew Drop, & Thunderstruck (Blues). These three skiers were not beginners (or Boy Scouts). They all had helmets on with fresh Alta skickers and at least one had twin tip tele skis. I never saw them on OTW or WL or any other blacks. Maybe they couldn't turn very well. It seems that a lot of skiers nowadays would rather blow by people than practice doing some turns.
Tucker
February 1, 2007
Member since 03/14/2005 🔗
893 posts
skiers might have twice the edge length=twice the amount of friction on same length of equipment, but pressure is appied differently on snowboard and skis...therefore it taint that simple...snowboarders able to apply more pressure along the length of the equipment as far as 1=1????...might be different(wider tires) but it is a completely different vehicle....definetily lots of different variables....I don't know...it's probably plus or minus...you could be right...doesn't really matter..atleast the difference isn't that substantial...wouldn't make snowboarding more dangerous...either way skier or snowboarder should be able to stop before you hit someone...if not your out'o'control...reckless...

what's faster you think...flat board(s) or board(s) on edge(carving)???
myrto
February 1, 2007
Member since 10/4/2001 🔗
259 posts
Quote:

This topic has made two very obvious conclusions. The first being that the problem on the slopes is with the idiots who drive/use the equipment and makes bad choices and secondly, a consensus that there are more idiots in the mid-atlantic.

And I still think the blind side is a major issue for the boarder or the person who can get mowed down by the boarder going into a turn on his blindside.....
canaanman
February 2, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
358 posts
Quote:

While I have nothing at all against snow boarders I do have a few concerns regarding the safety of others who share the slopes with them.
I feel that people are always at more risk of being hit by a snowboarder (than a skier) on the slopes for a couple of reasons.
1. When going down a slope a snowboarder's back is always to one side which always will limit the range of perpheral vision. No matter how aware or cautious you simply cannot have as good a range of view as you can skiing.

2. A good skier can actually turn or stop on dime. A snowboarder cannot. They can be pretty good but in colllisions, where matters of inches can determine the difference betweeen an injury or not, I strongly feel the snowboarder will always be at a disadvantage.

Does anyone agree with this assesment or am I way off base.




So... you should come out west. Perhaps Baker. Don't bring shaped skis... no bring your skinniest, oldest pair. Now you'll become familiar with what snowboarding has given to the ski industry.
Denis - DCSki Supporter
February 5, 2007
Member since 07/12/2004 🔗
2,221 posts
The snowboarder 'blindside' issue doesn't exist if you follow the skier's and rider's responsibility code. The very first item is that you are responsible for safely passing the skier or rider in front of you. This makes perfect sense; nobody has eyes in the back of their head. It makes no difference whether the back of the head faces back, as for a skier, or to the side as for a snowboarder. If you are "cut off" by a skier or rider who was in front of you, YOU not they, bear the responsibility.

There are points of redundancy in the responsibility code, and that too makes sense. For example, looking uphill before starting into a trail will prevent many of these incidents. And of course it is always better to be safe than to be injured but "in the right".
Redman
February 6, 2007
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
106 posts
Busted again...hehehe. After a somewhat slow start in December where I only got 7 days and then an unprecedented 2 straight weekend stay at home and bitch about the warm weather for the 1st and 2nd weekends in January things have been quite peachy. After Canaan dropped the ropes 3 weeks and opened virtually everything I've been in nordic nirvana!!! My saying for this year is "Sh$tty to pretty!" You know, you can ride those lines that only get good with about 2' of the natural.
nome
February 6, 2007
Member since 01/19/2007 🔗
14 posts
Quote:

the idiots who drive/use the equipment and makes bad choices




I am reminded of an incident two years ago. I was on a green run coaching my 7-yr old niece. I was about 2 metres (6 feet?) behind her when I noticed on my peripheral vision a fast incoming object from the right. It was an idiot (it does not matter if that idiot was a rider or a skier; still an idiot) cutting right between us. He passed through harmlessly. But I was rattled.

In the future, would it be acceptable to drop that idiot where and when it is safe to do so without harming other people? Or will I be the idiot myself if I do that?
bawalker
February 6, 2007
Member since 12/1/2003 🔗
1,547 posts
This reminds me of a time 2 years ago at Wisp when I was going down the Possum trail before they had the North Camp built. It was around 8pm that night and first before hitting that 90* right hand turn, I was riding until I got hit blindly from behind in the back of my knee going down. Instantly I grabbed my knee to check and make sure nothing was blown out, broken or torn. But as I was going down I looked off to my left and saw this little kid rolling and crying out infront of me. I laid there a moment on the ice/hardpack regaining myself and about that time I saw the mother of this kid ski right past me to her little boy. He was bawling and wailing his head off and all I could hear her say was "It's ok, you are doing a good job"

WTF?!?!?!?!?!

No apology was offered to me, heck they never even came over to me to make sure I was ok. The friend I was with and who was riding behind me saw it all and couldn't believe it. Thankfully I wasn't hurt and at first the way the impact was I thought for sure my board flipped up and hurt that kid and for a breif moment I thought maybe it killed him. But his mom got him back up and he started straight-lining on down the slope again!!

Well two runs later on Wisp Trail, me and my friend encountered some college age jerk off guys who were skiing 5-6 wide stretching their arms out and holding onto each others poles to form one massively long line that was going down fairly speedy. It was all I could do to get to the edge before they plowed me over... They kept on going down but did break off that 'line' but still misbehaved.

So it's definitely not the equipment you ride, just the idiot you are that makes it dangerous. I REALLY wish I was courtesy patrol or something to cut their tickets on a moment's notice like that.
RobertW
February 6, 2007
Member since 10/14/2004 🔗
199 posts
Quote:

In the future, would it be acceptable to drop that idiot where and when it is safe to do so without harming other people? Or will I be the idiot myself if I do that?




Don't know if it was acceptable, but I have "dropped" 2 idiots (both skiers BTW) who ventured too close to my daughters when I was teaching them. I am 5'-10/220 lbs and I played hockey so I know how to throw a hip check and am very sturdy on skis. I simply positioned myself to protect her and leveled the idiot before he could do any harm. Don't screw with a daddy bear watching his cubs
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