Snow fast or wait till next season
March 17, 2006
104 posts
28 users
55k+ views
T-line has some MAJOR issues with base on a number of trails. Lightening, Upper Thunder, and The Drop, all have serious bare spots. Almost Heaven has departed for the season and what's left on other trails needs help from Mother Nature quickly. I imagine most other areas are in the same situation. Without some cold and snow, this weekend could be the grand finale of the season.
"I imagine most other areas are in the same situation."
Snowshoe is 100% open and will start blowing even more snow tomorrow.
I was at Snowshoe this weekend. All trails were open but it's looking scary. Especially with the warmth and the rain they just got.
It'll all be back and then some! But staying at 100% And, getting colder and colder through the month. Better pull out the fur speedos for the Beach Party.
Tuesday
Much colder with flurries
High 42. Low 20. Fair snowmaking conditions.
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Wednesday
Partly sunny, a flurry
High 39. Low 22. Fair snowmaking conditions.
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Thursday
Chance of a little rain
High 44. Low 25. Fair snowmaking conditions.
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Friday
Chance for snow showers
High 36. Low 16. Good snowmaking conditions.
The question is tho, because there will be fair snowmaking conditions, will they even make snow at all? Or will they look at this being the end of a dismal season (compared to a few years ago) and decide not tos pend the money to fire up the guns?
i'm hoping to get a couple of days skiing march 27/28 whilst visiting some friends so i really hope Snowshoe gets a good few inches of fresh before then!
can anyone recommend the best place to stay - there will be 4 of us, 2 couples in early 30s so looking for convenience to slopes and also some good places to eat and drink....
The issue is, can t-line make snow??? From what I understand, there is a broken water line somewhere on the mountain which may mean that unless it falls from the sky, snowmaking is over.
There was no grooming on Sunday after the rain, warm winds, and with all the pushed up piles of taters from Saturday, the trails resembled I-70 from New Stanton to the WVA line.
I did two runs and went home to plant peas and potatoes....more productive and easier on my back.
I just checked the Accuweather 15 day forecast and it's actually calling for slightly BELOW normal temps (for nearly the entire period) starting late tomorrow in most of the mountains. However, this record (or near record) warm spell has done SO much damage to the base at most ski areas that I think many of them are likely to call it a season. But, on the other hand, there's going to be lot's of good to excellent snowmaking weather should a few ski areas try to stay open. And, let's not forget, the mountains are likely to receive a significant amount of snow between now and early April. Of course, this season has been so strange that all bets are off.
Hidden Valley is done. They are claiming next weekend but conditions are really poor. Some friends this morning said the springs is folding it's own but freying around the edges. They will probably be OK for this upcoming weekend. Too warm during the base building period. Another friend was at the Knob but I haven't heard the report. How about Wisp?
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... this being the end of a dismal season (compared to a few years ago)...
Has it really been such a dismal season? Our family skied pretty steadily from Nov.26 through March 11, except for some pretty sketchy weekends in January. Wintergreen's solid base held up admirably through this weekend - Dobie is still looking pretty good today, at least based on the website shot. At any rate, that's it for our ski season, even if WTG holds on. I'm not complaining - we had many great ski days with family and friends, especially considering we live in Virginia, not Vermont!
Financially, my guess would be that WTG did OK, most weekends, there was a steady stream of skiers on the Highlands, which tends to have smaller crowds that the main thoroughfares. The restaurants (another key source of income) were pretty packed too.
k_alice, If you can't bring yourself to calling the 2005-2006 ski season a "dismal season", then what would it take for you to call a ski season dismal???? Sure, there were a few good weekends in Dec, but by X-mas week things were already starting to deteriorate. And Jan. was one of the WARMEST on record. I spent several weekends in Jan. dodging bare spots and rocks and 7-S and BK; by early Feb., many ski areas had almost NO base. In fact, I had intended on skiing Whitetail a couple of weekdays in late Jan. but didn't because I found that the base was about gone. Then, we finally received some normal Winter weather, which allowed for some snowmaking; however, 7-S and BK did NOT receive hardly any natural snow (something that I've never seen in Feb. before). And, now we've received a record (or near record) WARM spell that has finished the season off for most ski areas within the mid-Atlantic. The only thing that kept this season from being far worse was the aggressive approach to snowmaking that most ski areas took. I tip my hat to all of the ski areas that worked SOOOOO hard to keep a base down during what was one of the WORST ski seasons that I've ever seen.
"dismal season"...LOL
To all the anti-'Shoeites...Opened Thanksgiving with a 10" dump. Been 100% and will continue til April 9th. Blowing again starting tomorrow with much colder temps and natural snow expected. Have your picnics on those "other" hills .. we'll be skiing 100% for another month! Then, historically, closing due to lack of business, not lack of snow.
Rich, I agree with you about the Shoe. But the Shoe is the BIG exception here. I wish that we had a couple of more Shoes in the mid-Atlantic.
I am having a good season. Not as good as the last 3, but good nonetheless. 16 days so far - lack of free time kept me off the hill more than conditions. Looks like it may end sooner than I was ready for, but it started out better too thanks to the early cold and good snowmaking. Still have 2 more weekends planned at Tline - keeping my fingers crossed but expectations low.
One of the worst, Mountain Masher what would it take for you to call a ski season good
? January was dismal because i only skied eleven days that month, 4 of those it snowed. You remind me of a couple of my guys who said conditions at alta sucked last week because the groomers were hard and it was foggy and they didn't want to tree ski; conditions were just fine where i was at alta, thank you, same as here. I haven't skied in the MidAtlantic in March yet, but i expect to get some more quality days in this season.
Dismal, LOL
Apart from January which suuuuucccked I've had a decent season. When I look back I've had 4 powder days and another 5 days of decent hardpack riding then a day of awesome fun spring riding. Throw into that a week in Utah where we also had warm conditions but still found soft snow and I have to say it's been pretty good. Some of my friends only got one weekend in all season. Unless there is a major dump and everything roars back to life I'm putting the deck away and I'm okay with it. I certainly agree with MM that January was brutal but I managed to pick and choose days that gave me some great riding. I guess as long as it doesn't shake out like the '02-'03 season where it was a solid 60 degrees all winter then it's not all bad.
Its been a good season for me, . Started back in Oct at Canaan for the freak storm and continued great till current.
Stats so far for 2005-2--6 season
Skied 52 days so far
in 7 states (VA,WV,VT,NH,MT,UT,MI)
plus British columbia
13 powder days over 6 inches (thats what i call a powder day)
at these places
Big Mtn(MT); Alta,snowbird,wintergreen,snowshoe, canaan,sugarbush,MRG, Jay Peak, Crystal Mtn(MI)
13 days of backcountry.
and one day in the gaper powder suit (last sat @ wintergreen)
Still some time left and as for the quality of the snow , wintergreen was AWESOME sat.
I think Wintergreen did better than most small resorts this season, with respect to snowmaking and their base. So, k_alice and I probably are more optimistic than some around here. Regardless, I skied 16-17 days so far this year, and it might only be 20 if the season was really really good. When a better season comes along, I'd need to quit my job to ski more than 15-20 days per year in the mid-A. All in all, I'd say the great December is what saved us from a really lousy season -- if I hadn't gotten 4 days skiing in December, I'd probably be lamenting the Jan warmup even more.
By the way, the "mountain" forecast for Snowshoe is even better looking that what was posted up above. I am thinking this could actually be a great weekend there.
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/ifps/MapClick.ph...0&map.y=122If anybody is going to Snowshoe this weekend, 17th-19th, let me know, I might be up there by myself.
Craig
Half empty or half full, eh? It's all attitude.
I'll take the good early season and base of this year over the good late season of last year. I got in some good days each month. Last time I was at Winterplace (2/20) they had an astonishing amount of snow. Even Beech mountain on 2/26 was wall to wall on all slopes and huge moguls. It rained at Timberline and I still skied darn near every slope. Only one really bad conditions day at Wintergreen and we still had a ball. If this week pans out as predicted, I'll be at Wintergreen this weekend. Then I have Kirkwood for a day or two, then maybe back to Shoe on 4/1 if they are still looking good.
Heck, we even skied the hillsides at Pipestem State Park!
Think about it. Nature does not gaurentee you skiing days. You only get them by good luck and in this area great technology.
That said, there were several slushy days and never a great pow day (for me). So more skiing, but never great skiing so far. I'll take it!
POWPOW nice gaper gown!
and is that the shocker you're throwing up there?!?
Indeed you are a man to be feared and respected... but mostly feared.
POWPOW,
52 days in 7 states, plus BC. What do you do for a living?
BTW - I think my Father-in-law has the same suit, except his is green. He swears by it.
powpow - Missed the outfit but recognize those skis - scotty bobs? I met a guy at tline at the end of Feb breaking a new pair in - was that you?
I guess when I refer to this being a "dismal season", it's coming from the perspective of resorts and their staff. I myself had a dismal ski season, not for the lack of snow, but for the lack of free days to get out. I only made it a WHOPPING 4 days total from November till last Friday.
But anyway, that aside, it seems that the whole feeling with employee's around the ski resorts was that this has been a freak of nature type winter. When I took ski lessons at Wisp back in January, the instructor told me then that in all of his last 12 years of living in Garrett, Co. he's never seen a winter where all of the bare ground has shown through for upto a good month at a time. He also made mention of how many fewer days the snowguns had run then compared to previous years.
Most of you are correct in that we had a pretty darn good start to the season. November was cold, December was just as cold with resorts going weeks with constant snowmaking. If it wasn't for that I'm sure resorts would have closed back in February without a doubt.
Personally I'll take any snowday that might be powder, slush, or ice over nothing at all. But when you think about it, imagine being in control of a ski resort and trying to keep things running when it's warm and getting warmer with no end in sight to make snow. Or loosing crowds because the DCers have forgotten that snow still exsists and they are taking their kids to little league practice and not the local ski hills. That's a dreaded nightmare for the marketing team because as we know, seasons always end due to lack of turnout. The early onset of warm weather doesn't help that any at all.
DREAM ON jimmy!!!!!! With the Shoe being the possible exception (and even that now looks a bit dicey) you're NOT going to get any more "quality" days of skiing this season! End of story!!!! So, you can come back to reality now!!!
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k_alice, If you can't bring yourself to calling the 2005-2006 ski season a "dismal season", then what would it take for you to call a ski season dismal????
This season I skied almost exclusively at Wintergreen, and they've been quite aggressive about snowmaking this year. If I compare to past seasons, it just wasn't dismal. In January 2002 there was so much warm weather that Wintergreen CLOSED entirely one weekend in January. Other ski resorts didn't far much better, as I recall (although we had one good weekend at Snowshoe). That was unquestionably a dismal year, to me. In December 2003, WTG was only half open, including only one slope on the Highlands. In January 2005, they were reduced to a narrow strip of slush on Dobie, not sure they ever fully recovered.
In contrast, 2005-06: WTG was 100% open before Christmas, and despite record warm temps in January, they managed to stay close to 100% until last weekend. Not bad.
I'm sure other resorts at lower altitudes, further east or with less aggressive snow-making had a harder season. But that's not where I spent my time...
Hey POWPOW, First of all, I think that your ski outfit looks gay (I wouldn't be caught dead in a goofy looking get-up like that). Second, the general purpose of DCSki, as it pertains to this thread specifically, is to discuss the 2005-2006 ski season in the mid-Atlantic, NOT to BRAG about how many places you've been to (in your squirrel-looking outfits) outside of the mid-Atlantic. By the way POWPOW, got any more pretty outfits that you'd like to show us?
MM - you're being kind of rough on Mr. PowPow. As someone once said, " In love as in ski apparell, one cannot account for one's taste". Ski clothes are suppose to be colorful anyway. Those dated 70's duds you wear make you look like a vintage Ski magazine cover.
As far as the 2005/2006 season, other than December, which was the best December in memory, it sucked. I would not however say it is the worst season ever. Since there have been many that have been worse. The real tragety of this season was January. Usually the coldest period of the winter was the warmest. Thus the resorts could not build up their bases. Febuary was actually pretty good.
snowsmith- for the most part, I agree with your assessment of the ski season. I would say that my take on the 2005-2006 season is just a bit more pessimistic than your take. And, that's probably because I didn't get out too much in Dec. As far as POWPOW's outfit goes, I was just yanking his chain. He seems to like to yank my chain a lot (even when I'm trying to discuss a serious topic), so when he gives me an opportunity, I'm going to take advantage of it.
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As far as POWPOW's outfit goes, I was just yanking his chain. He seems to like to yank my chain a lot (even when I'm trying to discuss a serious topic), so when he gives me an opportunity, I'm going to take advantage of it.
He was obviously wearing that as a goof-off joke, and even called himself a gaper. I certainly understood that he wasn't taking himself seriously. Nobody with skis that nice wears a gaper suit unless it's a joke 
I'm with you K_Alice. All things considered, it's been a pretty good season, and Wintergreen has an AMAZING amount of snow left in some places. Regardless, run selection is growing slim, and a couple days of rain would be devastating.
Last weekend was fantastic. Sun, mid seventies, and reasonably firm "hero snow". Loved it.
One frustration I and many others felt this year was the inability to really count on good conditions very often (other than those few weeks in February and early March). The weather just wouldn't make up its mind. Once you got past that though, and skied on what was available, it was pretty darn good.
I'm going to somewhat agree with Mountain Masher on the quality of this winter. My assessment of this winter was: whether it was dismal or not, I don't ever want to see one like this again. Here in B-burg, we didn't have a single day with a high below freezing and only one (or two, but I think one) day when lows dropped below 10. That's almost unheard of... as a matter of fact a winter where we don't have one night below zero is pretty uncommon.
It's not that there weren't good streaks- the fact that every ski area- despite MMs bold claims otherwise, I'd like to point out- made it to early or even mid March shows that the resorts have reached a point where they can take advantage of every cold snap that comes and hold a base practically through the gable end of hell if need be. Also, Canaan Valley did record 137 inches of snow, which is pretty much average for the Valley. The problem I have is the a) complete lack of consistently cold weather and b) the very persistent warm spells. You can't look at one of the warmest- if not the warmest- Januarys in over 100 years and say "hey, this wasn't a bad year." If it really wasn't a bad winter, I don't want to see a bad one then. I think we can all agree to that.
That said, I predict next year will be the coldest winter in 100 years. I intend to continue to make this prediciton every year for the next 94 years (I started six years ago) if I live that long- if not my estate will make the prediction in absentia. That way I know that once in my life (or shortly thereafter) I'll be right.
Roger,
FYI we actually had 6 days with high below freezing. Can't have you spreading weather un-truths. But you're right, it has been mild. I hardly got to try out my new tires. And the daffodils bloomed in my backyard today!
December? Weather Channel didn't report any for Jan or Feb... didn't see the stats for Dec. Regardless, it was warm as heck except for those two weeks in December and some scattered cold spells, and it was still as dismal as I ever want to see.
Dec was below normal, Jan above normal (especially the nightly lows), most of Feb. was way below normal, early March below normal, then a 5 day real hot spell, now going below normal for 1-2 weeks.
The Colonel
This season in CV was rescued by timely snows. Early snow and cold weather to start, plus lots of timely storms prior to the big weekends. Good snowmaking and early season snow made Christmas week at Tline excellent - really the best New Year's skiing I ever remember having - plenty of snow, lots of open terrain, and great weather. We had fresh snow for both 3-day weekends, plus a 3 day weekend blizzard in between. After each storm there was a major meltdown, but Ullr was on the job for most of the weekends this year.
As a Tline regular, the big disappointment for me was that the natural snow trails like Silver Streak and Thunderdraft weren't able to stay open consistently this year. This time last season, Silver Streak was filled with powder up to my knees and stayed that way for days after each storm. Tline's improved snowmaking overall plus the addition of snow making to the Drop, and the new trail Twister helped make up for the unfavorable weather.
Personally, my daughter's skiing really took off this year- I can't wait to see her go off next season. We helped 9 other kids ski for the first time. Also, I got to ski a few times with Jimmy - which was lots of fun. Overall, I could never call this season dismal.
There is no definitive answer that can qualify this ski season for everyone. I work f/t, live 3 hours from decent mountains, and on top of that live in the SOUTH (with all respect to the senior senator from NC, Mr Andy) - I'd say the ski season is what you make it.
Here's the bottom line about the weather for the Winter of 2005-2006. It was the WARMEST Winter on record for Canada, 3.9 deg. above normal and shattered the previous record by .9 deg. And, it was the 5th WARMEST Winter on record for the USA lower 48. Of course, we all know that we had one of the WARMEST Jan's ever in the mid-Atlantic. The good news is that next Winter will likely be somewhat colder. But, the bad news is that next Winter will probably also be on the mild side. Why? 2 reasons: 1) Mild Winters usually come in groups of 2s or 3s. 2) Due to Global Warming, the overall trend is milder Winters.
10 years from now with MPC & Tory both up & running,I will have to take a look back at this thread(+ many more like it).The Good Ole days?? Yes,they will seem like the good ole days but the skiing world for the mid atl will be so much improved. With a future Tory & Mpc facing an identical F-cast that we are facing right now for the rest of this week & weekend,we would all be salivating.....that is except Mr.MM,because he would be getting robbed of his "everything is going to hell" FIX....at the thought of skiing 2 ski areas THAT ARE ALSO SALIVATING at a chance to Freshen up the slopes fast!Skiing 10 years in the future with fresh manmade & natural snow frosting the Spruces we will look back at "funeral" threads like this & laugh & cry & then laugh again...The good ole days?
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i'm hoping to get a couple of days skiing march 27/28 whilst visiting some friends so i really hope Snowshoe gets a good few inches of fresh before then!
can anyone recommend the best place to stay - there will be 4 of us, 2 couples in early 30s so looking for convenience to slopes and also some good places to eat and drink....
Roger, we were just at the 'Shoe this past weekend. Now wishing we had gone this weekend. The forecast looks much better. We stayed at Allegheny Springs for the first time. Nice place, great location, (its at the top of Ballhooter lift). But really, you cant go wrong with either Rimfire, or Allegheny Springs, or any of the other Village central lodges. Allegheny is right on the slope, with a great ski storage lockers location right off the slope. (Only accessible with your room card), so you dont have to lug your skis back to your room. Although, Rimfire does have inside access to Starbucks, and underground parking Anywhere you stay in the Village though, you will have great access to resturants, and the slopes.
With 4 of you, depending on what level of privacy you want, verus, price...you have a couple of options. You can sqeeze four of you into a junior studio, but it would be tight fit. You can go with either a studio, which has a full kitchen, (the Jr studios have a sink, small fridge, and 2 burner hot plate), or go with a 1 BR. At this time of year, no matter where you stay you will get a pretty good deal.
As far as places to eat in the Village, we loved the Bistro the best, (its located in Allegheny Springs, across from the Junction). We also ate at the Junction, but the food there was awful. I had to send back my steak, twice....It was just that bad... I would highly recommend the Red Fox resturant, located in Whistlepunk Village, as well as the Foxfire Grill, located in the village, on the end of Rimfire. And of course, if you like coffee, you will be visiting Starbucks a number of times. We were there 3 days, and I think we made about 7 or 8 trips over there .
Hope this post answered some questions you might have had.... Have a great trip
fishnski, You can dream all you want but your dreams aren't going to come true. First of all, your dreams aren't in touch with the overall weather trends. Mild Winters ARE going to become more and more common.
Tory and MPC will NEVER become a reality. Why? The weather's now too dicey for such a large investment. Also, there are far too many issues like water and the environment. And, as far as Tory goes, there are NO plans whatsoever to build a ski area there. A guy bought the land to harvest the timber, that's it! Where have you been?
Roger Z, you're technically correct about every ski area making it to early March. However, for several ski areas, the final weekend of reasonably good skiing was the last weekend in Feb. By the 1st weekend in March, the conditions STUNK at those ski areas. Sat., Mar. 11 was the last day of the season for at least one ski area. And there were GIANT bare spots and only a FEW takers on the last day at most other ski areas, which was Mar. 12. So, in reality, my prediction was at least somewhat near the mark.
TennesseeSkier thanks for the great info. I'm goint to be watching the weather forecast for the next couple of weeks very closely.....
Its 32 degrees at 7AM (3/14) & looking at the Canaan Cam,it looks like MPC is Clouded over with some snow begining. If Snowshoe,like Rich says can close the season due to lack of buisness not snow...Then Weather is not the issue with a Mtn like MPC, Its Marketing..Ect..." Also a couple of weeks ago i talked to a guy who made it up to the top of Tory with a Hummer & he Informed me that the pattern of the Timber cutting was consistent with Ski area & Slope developement....& no way was the Timber cutting mucking up everything as rumered!! So where have you been MR. Mash? Down in your dark gloomy dungeon playing on your computer?
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and one day in the gaper powder suit (last sat @ wintergreen)
T-races, Bobtails, Hammerheads....very powerful, aggressive set up....then you top it all with the gaper suit from hell, plus the Shocker...
Duuuddde...I'm calling you out. If you don't show up at the Jack Frost Party next year in the same outfit, you don't have a hair on your a#*
I don't know what is funnier..MM's constant stance against all things optimistic (props to him though, he's consistent)
or that outfit. Thanks for the laugh
The logging operation at Tory probably isn't mucking things up; but, on the other hand, they're not developing a ski area either.
While we're on the subject, just what ARE they developing???
AirBoard park, cattle ranch, MJ Pharm? Enquiring minds want to no all omnicient MM!!
POWPOW< Swimmer is right, Jack Frost is for you baby
.
I didn't realize how a poor snow year would affect people.... I mean the negativity is huge!
It's sort of like a junkie needing a fix.
It has affected me as well when the January temps went above 60, I broke out the mountain bike.
Then the snow melt in February made me drink more
and now, with the 90 degree mark being reached at home yesterday, I found flip-flops on my feet, a cold heini in my hand, and myself in a lawn chair beside the barbi.
It's a wonder any of us have survived this un-winter. All the wasted money for our weapons of downhill destruction.
This will teach all of us to pay more respect to Ullr and make sacrifices of young maidens to appease him/her.
We must rise above the fray and be true to our real mission in life...ski till we die!
Anyone wanta drink to that?
And what is this scuttle about Tori????
Maybe we just need to pay homage to Powpow. Only someone of great power and influence would wear that.
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POWPOW,
52 days in 7 states, plus BC. What do you do for a living?
BTW - I think my Father-in-law has the same suit, except his is green. He swears by it.
Im in sales so i work hard in spells and play hard in spells. But mostly play.
another pic from last weekend, my little skiing chica is on the right practicing her switch skiing as well. I just semi mastered the backwards tele turn.
Well, Winter has finally returned to the mountains of South-Central and Western PA. It's currently 32 and spitting snow. However, extending the ski season is now a matter of economics (rather than weather) for a number of ski areas. Sure, if a ski area were to decide to fire up the snow guns, then they could be in great shape by the weekend and, with some additional snowmaking now and then, stay open until April. However, given the high cost of snowmaking and the possibility of only a limited return at this point, few ski areas are likely to go back into snowmaking. If only this cold spell had arrived a few days sooner!
Checking the Tline web cam this afternoon it looks like through creative grooming Mountain Ops gave White Lightning a comb-over: the bald spot so prevalent yesterday is now white! It actually looks pretty pleasent now. However, trail counts have dropped dramatically, their latest snow report has 21 out of 37 trails open - The Drop and Upper Almost Heaven being the most notable casualties. Snow and cold are in the forecast tonight, Thursday and Friday. No big expectations, but up in the WVA Alps you never know. I was thinking about staying home this weekend to mope, gloat about the end of ski season and spread bad attitude on the DCSki message boards, but I'd rather go ski.
Go for it! Of all the times that I've skied T-line, the conditions have always been good. There really isn't such a thing as a bad day there. The only thing that I'd like to see changed are those slow lifts.
The slope count might be down due to the wind and lift closures. I bet it's rippin' pretty good up there
The "ALPS" are doing their thing right now! Been snowing for a while now...Anybody going to the "Snowy Luao" at Timberline this weekend will feel like they just went thru summer & that they are getting their 1st cold snowy trip of the year in! 2nd half of March could be interesting.
Both Wisp and 7 Springs got a little with more to come this week. It looks ugly on the webcam though because you have little drifts of snow over the hardened crud of last weekend and super warm Monday. If it keeps up through the week it might be doable by the weekend.
On a side note I've been talking to my wife about maybe moving out west and was kind of pushing Utah a little. She wants to move in a few years but her idea is North Carolina which is far too warm and unsnowy for me. Anyhoo thats all been scuppered now thanks to the shows that have been on all week about Colorado City. Dammit!
Go for your dreams, man!
I finally got the spousal unit talked into moving to where it snows and she breaks her leg but that won't hinder her desire to be where winter happens when it should. The main hold-up is the cost of housing and what is available. The houses for sale in or near most resort areas is either overpriced or not designed for 24/7/365 occupants. No storage areas, no garages, etc... If we were to build we would need to find a reliable builder or I'll do it myself which is a long term committment. Still, our quest continues.
Oh it's baby steps. I got her on skis about 3 years ago. Shes now in the stage of actually liking winter, used to loathe it, and is starting to enjoy skiing. I just need to get her to take some more lessons and get a little more daring but shes pretty comfortable on greens so next year is the push for blues. Then we'll ease into moving somewhere a little colder.
kennedy ... yeah me too. I have been checking real estate prices in UT and can swing something small; however, the job market in my profession sucks. It's even worse in the Tahoe/Carson City area where I would -really- like to live. Something about the Sierras just is right for me, but again the job market is bad, if non-existent, unless you work for the casinos, hotels etc.
Very frustrating ...
Once after an out-west trip I did a job search (using one of the online job search engines) for Los Angeles, Houston, Wyoming, Utah (slc), Boston and DC. (obviously i wasn't specifically thinking of moving to Rockies to ski)
For my field (computery stuff), there were a smattering of jobs in all locations -- Utah having a surprisingly larger than expected computer industry.
However they pailed in comparison to DC which had 100s (literally) for the same search...
Anyway -- although the season seems played out here more or less, the west still becksons! It's been snowing all week in SLC area!
I can sell my condo in DC and use the equity to swing into something nice with a lower mortgage and the job market for what I do seems to be there and pays comparable to here. The problem though is that my wifes profession doesn't exist there. She's a patent legal assistant and if we moved she would have to start something new. Either way it's a few years away yet.
Actually, Kennedy (oh boy for once my planning degree is coming into some use), patent law is one of the fastest growing fields in Boise, Idaho, which is one of the fastest growing cities in the United States right now. If you're IT or high-tech related, and your wife does patent law, you might want to take a look at Boise. Good climate, good skiing not far away, great skiing at a weekend driving distance. The foothills have phenomenal mountain biking and hiking opportunities... all in all a good quality of life in a good high tech community.
And remember, all, $250,000 will still get you a 2000 sf house with a quarter acre in Salt Lake. Good luck finding that in DC (or in Blacksburg, for that matter)...
How about looking at the total size of the economy, and economic mix to get a better idea of the likelyhood of continous employment for your trade. "Fastest growing" is meaningless when you start at two people... and move to say four...
I'm a construction estimator so generally my field does reasonably well in major urban settings. Funny you should mention Boise I have a good friend of mine from there. He now works in Manassas and he liked it a lot. I believe Sun Valley is near Boise along with some killer local hills he mentioned. I had no idea though that patent was growing so fast out there. Actually when I do the math, good skiing and climate, strong growth in patent and a fast growing community means construction will be up, they're renowned for potatoes and I'm Irish and I do love a good stereotype, and they actually have a good kung fu school there too (my buddy from Idaho is a 2nd degree black belt who transferred to our school which is how I know him)looks like I'll be seein ya. I'm off Sun Valley here I come.
Regardless of what you do, your degree is in, or what your housing status is or will be, relocation is always a risk. You need to be willing to change lifestyles when taking a risk. Hence, so many ski bums and the opposite, so many successful entrepreneurs in ski country. Risk takers are willing to sacrifice and those who are not, live where the employment is stable. I'm banking on my 32+ years of teaching, with its' corresponding retirement, to fund my snow country life style. Besides, my realestate in Virginia is a substantial way to seed a new beginning either in the mid-atlantic or elsewhere.
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I'm off Sun Valley here I come.
Too bad Sun Valley averages about the same amount of snowfall as does Snowshoe.
I'd take the terrrain difference, though.
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How about looking at the total size of the economy, and economic mix to get a better idea of the likelyhood of continous employment for your trade. "Fastest growing" is meaningless when you start at two people... and move to say four...
Bingo. Tech industries are notoriously boom or bust; I've lived through several of both. One great thing about the DC tech market is that it has become about as recession-proof as any job market in the US. A nice mix of the government and commercial sectors. Plus, it is not dependent upon the success of a single large company driving the job market.
It's true that Sun Valley averages about the same annual snowfall as Snowshoe (that is, if you believe Snowshoe's figures, which I'm a bit sceptical of). But, the slopes at Sun Valley tend to RETAIN much of the snow, so that a nice base can build up. On the other hand, because of constant swings in temps combined with occassional rains, Snowshoe retains FAR LESS of it's natural snow during the course of a typical ski season.
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It's true that Sun Valley averages about the same annual snowfall as Snowshoe (that is, if you believe Snowshoe's figures, which I'm a bit sceptical of). But, the slopes at Sun Valley tend to RETAIN much of the snow, so that a nice base can build up. On the other hand, because of constant swings in temps combined with occassional rains, Snowshoe retains FAR LESS of it's natural snow during the course of a typical ski season.
I guess my main point is that for powder skier lovers and off-piste/backcountry afficionados, Sun Valley is not the best place out West....
I agree. While Sun Valley is a beautiful place with great weather, it isn't really a place for powder-hounds. Now, if you happen (by chance) to time things just right, I'm sure that some nice powder skiing can be had.
Ease up there kids, if I move anywhere it will be a very calculated move. Believe me I know how markets swing here in DC. For us in large construction it tends to swing from public to government. When one is down the other is up. Right now private is doing well by public is developing a pent up demand that will break loose soon. Thats not a claim other places can make.
As for riding my buddy has always raved about Bogus Basin, seems to be his stomping ground.
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How about looking at the total size of the economy, and economic mix to get a better idea of the likelyhood of continous employment for your trade. "Fastest growing" is meaningless when you start at two people... and move to say four...
Which is why magazines like Fortune- which did the rankings and showed Boise as the second best place in America to live in 2005- don't cover small towns. Micron is headquartered in Boise, Hewlett-Packard's most productive development center is there, and there are numerous spin-offs from both as well as significant fabrication plants for other high tech firms. The MSA population is about 500,000 and growing at a rate of about 3.5% per year. A lot of the relocation is occurring from Silicon Valley and Seattle, as folks are looking for cheaper places to live and an entrepreneurial environment. And Kennedy, I think you said you were in construction? Boise's MSA just broke into the top 50 MSAs in America for new home permits. It's also one of only two of the top 50 markets with no signficant national homebuilders in the market yet. That'll change soon.
Salt Lake has a sizable biotech presence. Not sure what Reno's picking up on as I haven't looked at their market at all. Boise's patent law is tied directly to the number of start-ups in the area and their need to collaborate to achieve economies of scale. Is it as big as DC? No, but there's a number of folks that think that that's a benefit, not a liability. If you want to work for government contracting, there's a HUGE weapons facility out in Pocatello that's giving rise to a boomlet in contracting and sub-contracting in the eastern portion of the state (not far from Grand Targhee and JH).
I've got no problem with relocation. If you like where you live, that's fine, but if you don't like it, better to find someplace new than sit around and gripe about your hometown for the next 20 years. Too many people hang around a region they dislike (or a job they dislike) out of fear over what might happen to them if they chose an alternative. That seems to be particularly prevalent on the east coast, which is far more institutional and far less entrepreneurial than the west coast. Which is one reason I'm trying to get off the east coast.
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east coast, which is far more institutional and far less entrepreneurial than the west coast.
With the notable exception of the Bay Area, I'm not sure if any other area in the country can match the DC area for entrepreneurial activity. I haven't seen any stats for the past year, but VC funding for the DC area has rivaled that for other metropolitan areas; NYC, Boston and LA included.
I think you've been hanging around the wrong people or the wrong companies in DC.
I won't argue that the skiing is better out West. Thank goodness for plane flights.
Actually, if you look at Money Tree, which tracks total VC financing in the United States, Washington ranks a middling nine out of 19 regions surveyed. If you control for population (which is the proper way to look at this stuff), the number is most likely going to be even lower. It doesn't come close to competing with Silicon Valley, New England, New York, Texas, or San Diego, among other places. The average size of a VC deal in Washington is only 59% of the national average. The only places that have smaller deal sizes than DC is the Midwest (with those economic powerhouses like Sioux Falls and Omaha) and Upstate New York.
Patenting is another key aspect of a high-tech area, and when I looked at the US PTO data, if I included all of Virginia and Maryland (which is very generous) as well as DC, the DC Metro accounts for about 3% of total patents in the last 15 years. Nothing to brag about there, either.
My advisor has been researching high tech entrepreneurial activity in DC for three years now and frankly its depressing how far behind the region lags compared to other regions. It is an institutional town and probably won't outgrow it anytime soon.
Was down to 7springs last night. Dust over crust but hey, bad day ski'n better than anything else. Looks like they will be ok but limited for a week or two. Goose Bumps and Stowe are covered with ice balls that were once moguls. My guess is these will be groomed over for flat ski'n. I've been contemplating a move lately as well good information on Boise we were looking at Utah in general.
That may not tell the whole story as the DC area (counting dc, northern virginia, parts of maryland and maybe even parts of b'more & annapolis) -- may get significant monies from gov't agencies in terms of various types of research contracts that often just play into business formation. In many ways, better than VC, no management take-over by the VC-firm of your small & disadvantaged business.
anyway -- adding this in might raise the dc-area some what in that list (assuming it wasn't counted in the first place)
BUT I don't think for a second we come close to a place like Silicon Valley.
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Actually, if you look at Money Tree, which tracks total VC financing in the United States, Washington ranks a middling nine out of 19 regions surveyed. If you control for population (which is the proper way to look at this stuff), the number is most likely going to be even lower. It doesn't come close to competing with Silicon Valley, New England, New York, Texas, or San Diego, among other places. The average size of a VC deal in Washington is only 59% of the national average. The only places that have smaller deal sizes than DC is the Midwest (with those economic powerhouses like Sioux Falls and Omaha) and Upstate New York.
Patenting is another key aspect of a high-tech area, and when I looked at the US PTO data, if I included all of Virginia and Maryland (which is very generous) as well as DC, the DC Metro accounts for about 3% of total patents in the last 15 years. Nothing to brag about there, either.
My advisor has been researching high tech entrepreneurial activity in DC for three years now and frankly its depressing how far behind the region lags compared to other regions. It is an institutional town and probably won't outgrow it anytime soon.
Not much time to analyze what you've posted. Couple of points. Main report is only for one quarter. There is a lot of volatility from Q to Q. DC MetroPlex is way down the past three years compared to the late 90's / early 00's. If I used some of the historical graphing correctly, DC MetroPlex had more VC than New England around 00 using one quick check.
Some 2004 population figures from the US Census Bureau's ACS:
Texas: 21 M
VA, MD, DC: 13.1 M
5 NE States: 13.5 M
Some of the PWC regions are quite large/populous compared to the DC MetroPlex (not sure how the DC MetroPlex is even defined.)
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Patenting is another key aspect of a high-tech area
Correlating patents to business innovation is tenuous at best. Use of patenting varies greatly from industry to industry. Many small entrepreneurial companies forgo attempts to patent (often due to time/cost) and concentrate on time to market, swift innovation, etc. (Patents are key in bio tech and pharm due to exorbitant development costs.) Patent system is (should be) undergoing a huge amount of change due to numerous recent questionable patent awards. Way too frequently, patents are adopted by large organizations as a questionable defensive measure against smaller firms who don't have deep pockets or by "inventors" who have no plan to implement the "ideas." There have been way too many patents that have been issued recently that are laughable to technical people who work in the industry, especially in the software industry.
Ever work for a start-up?
I have worked for a start-up and its just what you said in our case. also they are local, we didn't want VC but instead found some small govt research grants oriented towards business formation. We also had investement more directly from the parent company that spun us off, and a larger partnering company...
I don't recall patents coming up at all... now if we had some breathing room, then perhaps...
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Ever work for a start-up?
Yes. In the DC area. Ironic, dontcha think?
Well, we could debate this all night I suppose but I think we should knock off for two reasons. One, I can already tell that we're never going to agree about this. I've seen way too much data and research to ever buy into the DC economy being entrepreneurial, but I'm not going to be able to convince you or anyone else about that (or, unless you can produce some data and research to the contrary, will you be able to convince me).
Two, and much more importantly, we're WAY off the DC *SKI* thread that this is supposed to be. This is more like a mid-July "I'm bored and it's 99 degrees out" kind of discussion than a "will it snow this weekend" discussion... we can agree about that, right?
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Well, we could debate this all night I suppose but I think we should knock off for two reasons. One, I can already tell that we're never going to agree about this. I've seen way too much data and research to ever buy into the DC economy being entrepreneurial, but I'm not going to be able to convince you or anyone else about that (or, unless you can produce some data and research to the contrary, will you be able to convince me).
Sounds good, but somehow I just can't resist the fun of chasing you once more around the parking lot. (Obscure song reference.)
Entrepreneurs don't worry having things proven to them through data and research, they make the reality happen which later produces the data. From this and earlier conversations, I think planning is a much better career choice for you than start-ups. Just an observation. We're all wired differently.
But if I ever hit it big in the DC area and am lucky enough to buy Moonshine Mountain, I'll try to hire you as the mountain planner. Or un-planner.
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Entrepreneurs don't worry having things proven to them through data and research, they make the reality happen which later produces the data. From this and earlier conversations, I think planning is a much better career choice for you than start-ups. Just an observation. We're all wired differently.
While it is true that entrepreneurs are naturally risk takers, our discussion was whether a REGION- in particular, the DC region- was more entrepreneurial than others. How an entrepreneur typically behaves was not the point of the discussion.
And as far as my career choices go: you know nothing about me, my career plans, or my personality John. I'd appreciate it if you'd leave the personal comments aside, as I expected better from someone like you.
Clash of the ego's!! economics is like weather or global warming...too many facts,figures & variables to accurately predict.Like Johnl said,get out there,find somthing you like & go for it. Some of the simplest ideas have generated fortunes for people. Who needs a fortune though? You can't take it with you....We sure are glad that NC was taken off Mr. Kennedys list ...Too HOT, Too BORING, & NO MONEY to be made..1 less Yankee!!! HMMM...Should I go to my new chalet in West Va this Weekend or should I go chase Some Yellowfin Tuna out in the Stream?? Think I'll just take my Kayak out in the sound,Rake up some Clams & oysters then Kick back on my deck sippin on a few Miller lights while I dream of a late season major dump at Sugar Mtn,NC....I worked my dream hope you all work yours!
No offense bud but NC just isn't my thing but if it works for you thats cool oh and I'm not a yankee I'm Irish so as hard as summers are for me here I don't even want to think about further south. Back on thread here.
First off the temps are looking good for the next two weeks and there is some potential for natural snow. 7 Springs groomed a bit and now it looks pretty nice but best of all Wisp is running the guns right now! Not wholesale all out gunning but patchwork stuff to make trails accessible I guess. I'm wondering if they are not shooting for a April close date.
Not that hi-jacking a thread is illegal, but you guys get way too serious over things which you have no control over. Thanks for bringing a full 360. Now that winter looks about ready to return and we may finally get some freshies.
Hope the luau @ t-line is a snowy one.
Just trying to keep enough people from moving out of the DC area so that DCSki.com doesn't become UsedToSkiNearDC.com. Life or the skiing ain't so bad around here. Besides, I've stayed out of the recent MM discussions, so I need a good heated talk now and then to keep the blood flowing.
AW, it's fun to watch you thousand post titans go at it once in a while. Think we're all suffering a bit of pow withdrawl after last week in Utah
. Moonshine Mountain and BK logging seasons are fast approaching but not here yet. Heading out for Snowy (i hope) Luau tomorrow what could be better than that?
I'm Curious about how much snow CV has gotten so far this March. Seems I remember someone posting that 60" is average there for march?
I actualy heard on the news last night that the lake effect snow machine will be a factor for the next month. I would love nothing more than a major dump that kicked everything into high gear for the end of the season. MM I know you are going to say dream on and to be honest I will.
Yo Kennedy,
!
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DREAM ON jimmy!!!!!! With the Shoe being the possible exception (and even that now looks a bit dicey) you're NOT going to get any more "quality" days of skiing this season! End of story!!!! So, you can come back to reality now!!!
Dammit my pre-emptive was pre-emtivated!
Hmmm... maybe I'll start a DCExpatSki.com webpage. Of course, that would require me to have computer competency... hmmm.. maybe CRUSH can start a DCExpatSki.com webpage!
Now, I'm not going to turn DC into my personal Blue Knob. It certainly has a lot going for it economically, and there are lots of people who like to live there. We are indeed all wired differently, and those people should be glad that folks wired like me are busy moving away! Blacksburg was a tentative first step westward. Having passed this test, I'm ready to press on. Though except for the skiing down here, I'd be happy to get a job in Roanoke- it's a pretty nice city; much nicer than you expect. And the scenery is some of the best in VA for a city.
I used to think I'd be back in the DC area in 15-20 years or so, but now I'm not so sure. But that's a long way off and I'm not willing to make any bets about that anytime soon. There's something about the water though that's hard to shake. Easton might be a nice place to be in a couple decades, just not right now.
My company just got the contract for the art museum in Roanoake. Thats one funky looking building. Very Gehriesque.
The good thing about the DC economy is that it's relatively stable. I wouldn't say that it's recession proof, but it usually fares pretty well during down-turns in the national economy. And, unless they move most of the Govt. out of the area, the DC economy is likely to remain stable.
One aspect of the DC economy that I get a real kick out of are the so-called "Beltway Bandit" companies. Many of these companies like to call themselves high-tech; and, in fact, some of them are doing high-tech work (or have departments within that are doing hi-tech). But, more times than not, these companies find themselves doing low-tech admin work for the Govt. So, you often have a high-paid retired military person (a double-dipper) doing some sort of very basic task and the Govt. gets billed a fortune for the work. Part of the problem is that the work ethic and employee standards have sunk so low in the Federal Govt. that lots of work has to be contracted out (to the Beltway Bandits) in order to get anything done. And, winning contracts with the Govt. has become a real racket, it often involves one or more of the following: who you know (not what you know), offering Govt. individuals future jobs in exchange for contracts, and, in some cases, various types of kick-backs.
Ah, the new art museum! Yes, it was a source of much ridicule when the design was issued last year. I think the ugliest thing around here is the new advanced research center over in Danville. I've only seen pictures, but people who've seen it in real life say it looks like a UFO crashed in the middle of a corn field.
Not nearly as ugly as the Corcoran Museum addition in DC was going to be. It looked like Gehry crumpled up some aluminum foil, took a photo of it then superimposed it into the middle of DC. Would have stuck out like a sore thumb if it wasn't for the fact that they could never get the funding. I have seen some funky looking stuff come through the door here in the past five years.
As someone who knows the area, let me say that
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advanced research center over in Danville
those words just do not go together....
Mr Kennedy, I'm a Yankee transplant...just messing with you! They call me Yankee doodle Andy....By the way it aint as hot down here as it is in DC. This is getting back off thread again but you all were thinking of places to move to...what about Hawaii..6 to 12 inches of snow above 8000' with another foot to go! Now there is paradise...If you can handle Island fever,MM will explain. Looking good for the Grand finale up in the highlands starting with a half of foot(NWS above 3000') in tucker co,Wv tonight....stay tuned for next week!
They're manufacturing advanced fluids for NASCAR racing. Does that help?
hmmm. the Old art museum was a great place to rollerblade and stair-ride or launch some air-time ... gee I hope they have a few hits with the new design!
Come on snow!! Bet your jealous about our 6 inch snow tonight Crush!
...The Untopic is the loser on this thread.
Danville, where the h$ll is danville. Whats dans last name, dan van steuben??? why isn't it called steubenville??
Wisps webcam looks nice and snowy right now, 7 Springs not so much.
Checking the t-line snow report...upper thunder isn't open.
I wonder if it's gone for the season or if they are moving snow around to cover bare spots for the weekend?
If the NWS weather forecast for Snowshoe holds, we should enjoy great skiing into April...assuming the resorts remain open...this requires that we MidAtlantic skiers keep skiing!
NOAA forecast is:
Today: A chance of snow showers, mainly before noon, then a slight chance of snow showers after 4pm. Mostly cloudy, with a high around 33. North wind between 7 and 17 mph. Chance of precipitation is 30%. New snow accumulation of less than one inch possible. Tonight: Mostly cloudy, then gradually becoming mostly clear, with a low around 12. Wind chill values between -2 and 8. Blustery, with a northwest wind between 15 and 21 mph, with gusts as high as 33 mph.
Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high around 28. Wind chill values between zero and 10. North wind between 11 and 20 mph, with gusts as high as 30 mph. Saturday Night: Mostly clear, with a low near 16. Northwest wind between 7 and 13 mph.
Sunday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 35. North wind between 8 and 14 mph. Sunday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 24.
Monday: A chance of snow, mainly after 4pm. Partly cloudy, with a high around 33. Chance of precipitation is 30%. Monday Night: A chance of snow. Partly cloudy, with a low around 24. Chance of precipitation is 50%.
Tuesday: Snow likely. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 26. Chance of precipitation is 60%.Tuesday Night: Scattered snow showers. Mostly cloudy, with a low near 14. Chance of precipitation is 40%.
Wednesday: Scattered snow showers. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 23. Chance of precipitation is 30%.Wednesday Night: A chance of snow showers. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 16. Chance of precipitation is 30%.
Thursday: A chance of snow showers. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 30. Chance of precipitation is 30%.
IN ADDITION: Joe Bastardi ("the MAN")is forecasting a really cold and potentially snowy remainder of March, perhaps even snow along the coast.
THINGS ARE LOOKIN GOOD! ENJOY!!! I am heading for the WV Alps!!
The Colonel
timberline was pushing snow around on that slope wednesday, I bet its open for the weekend from the looks of it. Also on the website it has The Drop closed which it was most diffently open on wednesday when it was marked closed.
Thanks bushwack, that was quite a tour you were on last week; did you sleep in ur car or what? Tline and wisp in one day, way to go spring break in the alleghenys, who needs the beach!
