Straight skis
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oldensign - DCSki Columnist
February 3, 2009
Member since 02/27/2007 🔗
437 posts
My father in law is looking for a some good straight skis.

The reason being he hurt his knee on our ski trip last year. He is convinced that this was due to the shape skis putting more stress on the knee that straight skis. Which in a way makes sense. I think I remember reading something on this.
Has any seen any article on this?

If this is good gouge does any one know where to get some straight skis or if any manufacture still makes them. Of course EBay I know but looking for a better source.

Thanks
BushwackerinPA
February 3, 2009
Member since 12/9/2004 🔗
649 posts
first ask your father in law how shaped ski put more stress on someones knees?

this doesnt make sense at all.

the closest things youll find with out getting old skis, are mogul skis and some fat skis.

I honestly think people who still straight skis are the most ignorant skiers on the planet. Every single on of them is either clueless, a stick in the mud, or a masochist.
jimmy
February 3, 2009
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
Originally Posted By: BushwackerinPA


I honestly think people who still straight skis are the most ignorant skiers on the planet. Every single on of them is either clueless, a stick in the mud, or a masochist.



laugh cry laugh awww c'mon bush don't sugar coat it tell us wut u really think smile .

Oldensign check his edges maybe they need detuned, well need maybe isn't the right word, but detuning may help. Learning how to turn teh "new shaped skis" would be better. Wedgy old skipped school turns + shaped ski that sharp from tip to tail = NOFUN.
JohnL
February 3, 2009
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,514 posts
Quote:
I honestly think people who still straight skis are the most ignorant skiers on the planet. Every single on of them is either clueless, a stick in the mud, or a masochist.


Too funny, and very true. I might make an exception for the one or two looooong time passholders at places like Mad River who can't afford anything else (and supposedly still rip their turns on discarded old boards.)

Oldensign,

Beware if you get a pair of old (used) straight skis with bindings. The vintage skis may have vintage bindings. Vintage bindings are a legitimate safety hazard and many shops won't even work on those skis.

Good luck convincing your father in law ...
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BushwackerinPA
February 3, 2009
Member since 12/9/2004 🔗
649 posts
I d bet he love these they are only 200 buck new as well!

http://www.levelninesports.com/head-210-downhill-skis-210cm-p-3721.html
jimmy
February 3, 2009
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
Heh 33 meter that's pretty straight
kwillg6
February 3, 2009
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,023 posts
Yeow! if those are true DH skis, u have to get m to about 40 MPH b4 u can turn m.... I skied a pair of 235s one time on cupp and had to get them puppies going so fast that I scared myself. They were stable, but heavy as hell. Not somethin for the general public to do.
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
February 3, 2009
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
1,334 posts
If your father hurt his knee using 'shaped skis' I'd say he is not using them correcly. All you have to do is tip them on edge and the skis turn themselves. It is funny to watch some of the older skis who have shaped skiers with their knees and skis a half inch apart doing those old stem christie turns. They never really learned how to effectively use the 'shaped skis' so they stick with the old methods. I would imagine that is your stubborn old father. Tell him to take up snow boarding. crazy
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
February 3, 2009
Member since 10/18/1999 🔗
1,527 posts
Are there any ski shops that can still work on sticks? Heck, I thought those bindings were so old that the manufacturers wouldn't support them anymore because of the liability issues
comprex
February 3, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Originally Posted By: oldensign
My father in law is looking for a some good straight skis.

The reason being he hurt his knee on our ski trip last year. He is convinced that this was due to the shape skis putting more stress on the knee that straight skis. Which in a way makes sense. I think I remember reading something on this.
Has any seen any article on this?


No article needed: if shaped skis are flat-run through chopped-up snow of alternating density the larger areas in front and back will exert more torque on the ski boot than narrower ones.

This is a known issue with carver-shapes, which is why one is supposed to have them on edge in broken snow or random snow.

(That doesn't mean I agree with your FIL in that straight skis are the answer)

What was the last (straight) ski your FIL enjoyed skiing?
comprex
February 3, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Originally Posted By: jimmy

Oldensign check his edges maybe they need detuned, well need maybe isn't the right word, but detuning may help.


I don't think this matches the two very specific instances where I think detuning can be a short-term benefit (IMO it's always a long-term detriment). Detuning can sometimes help novice shapers feel more comfortable for the rest of the day if they are catching edges or reporting sore ankles from twisting the skis.

(The first is more likely with loose boots, the second is more likely with tight boots)

In either case, it's the sort of thing you do to save a day or a trip for someone who skis like less than 5x a year.
skier219
February 3, 2009
Member since 01/8/2005 🔗
1,318 posts
The two knee-intensive aspects of skiing normally (ie, not injury scenarios, not moguls, etc) are a twisting torque which comprex alluded to, and a lateral torque. I agree, if he was running the skis on the flats in variable snow, it would definitely increase the risk of twisting and he need to edge them a little. The wide-ish tip and narrow waist on some shape skis (specifically carvers) results in a pretty significant yaw when the snow is variable.

The lateral torque is directly related to ski width and binding stand height. Wider skis require more torque to put on edge, and can exert more torque on the knees. This can be offset by binding lift, which gives you more leverage over the ski edges.

It would be good to know how he thought he hurt his knee, and then back that out to the possible factors that are ski related.

Note - to go with an equivalent straight ski, he'd need to ski something a lot longer. I don't know about anyone else, but when I look at long skinny straight skis, I can feel my knees squirm at the thought of trying to turn them in deep snow or bumps. Those things were like big long knee windup handles. I think it's the wrong move if he's worried about his knees.

I will add that I took out some of my old straight skis for a run or two a few years back, and while it was nostalgic, I absolutely HATED the skis. They really do suck compared to modern skis. I agree with Bushwhacker, maybe more mildly, but I do shake my head when I see people skiing old straight skis (usually with binding and boots that are long past their expiration date). It's just not a bright thing to do in most cases.
Otto
February 3, 2009
Member since 11/19/1999 🔗
176 posts
I hope not to offend, but these theories that shaped skis are more likely to incur knee injuries strike me as total bullsh*t. I can't see how running a shorter shaped ski flat over broken snow is different from running a longer straight ski through the same snow. Ditto for any other theories.

So, please link us to something authoritative.

IMHO the biggest knee threat in skiing was, and is, the rear-leverage ACL tear. One could theorize, perhaps incorrectly, that the shorter lengths of shapes lessen this risk.
Clay
February 4, 2009
Member since 04/11/2006 🔗
555 posts
Originally Posted By: comprex
I don't think this matches the two very specific instances where I think detuning can be a short-term benefit (IMO it's always a long-term detriment).

The one other reason I see people detune the tips and tails is that they are convinced that if they take a beater they are going to be cut by the skis flying around. I have never agreed with this logic, but it is ubiquitous. I have even seen it in books on tuning.
comprex
February 4, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Originally Posted By: Clay
Originally Posted By: comprex
I don't think this matches the two very specific instances where I think detuning can be a short-term benefit (IMO it's always a long-term detriment).

The one other reason I see people detune the tips and tails is that they are convinced that if they take a beater they are going to be cut by the skis flying around. I have never agreed with this logic, but it is ubiquitous. I have even seen it in books on tuning.


Sounds to me like your books on tuning date from the days of binding ties and before the days of ski brakes.

I -do- have a scar from a beater like this. I got it in January 1978. Tyrolia binding ties.

PS you didn't answer the questions?
Clay
February 4, 2009
Member since 04/11/2006 🔗
555 posts
The angle questions? Just got home last night. Haven't been out to the barn to find the books yet.
comprex
February 4, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Originally Posted By: Clay
The angle questions? Just got home last night. Haven't been out to the barn to find the books yet.


Ah, sorry, brain gas. That should've gone to oldensign; it may be that I have some stuff his FIL might value.
comprex
February 4, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts

BTW, skis like this:

http://www.skidealer.com/itemdetails.php?products_id=619&categories_id=

are close enough to 'straight' that they might do the job.
langleyskier
February 4, 2009
Member since 12/7/2004 🔗
824 posts
This is funny, streight skis are much much harder on the knees than the new stuff. If he wants to save his knees buy the latest stuff, easier to turn and puts much less stress on the knees.
David
February 4, 2009
Member since 06/28/2004 🔗
2,444 posts
Originally Posted By: langleyskier
This is funny, streight skis are much much harder on the knees than the new stuff. If he wants to save his knees buy the latest stuff, easier to turn and puts much less stress on the knees.


Hey! There he is!!
The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
February 4, 2009
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,098 posts
Langleyskier....YAY...You are back!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Colonel smile
comprex
February 4, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Originally Posted By: langleyskier
This is funny, streight skis are much much harder on the knees than the new stuff. If he wants to save his knees buy the latest stuff, easier to turn and puts much less stress on the knees.



Try it for yourself the next day our local hills have mashed potatoes. Take a 170cm ski with a 15m sidecut and a 185-190cm straight ski and straightline (do not carve, do not edge) them both.

Which do you think will get knocked around more?

"easier to turn and less stress on the knees" IF IT IS CARVED.

How is it everyone is forgetting that little bitty proviso?

Straight skis are easier and less stress on the knees to skid, length for length. If anyone wants a straight ski just to check, LMK what length your carvers are, chances are I have a comparable straight stick.
BushwackerinPA
February 4, 2009
Member since 12/9/2004 🔗
649 posts
i have straight skis

40 meter sidecut
140-121-131

so straight and fat, i bet they out skid anything anyone has.
comprex
February 4, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Originally Posted By: BushwackerinPA
i have straight skis

40 meter sidecut
140-121-131

so straight and fat, i bet they out skid anything anyone has.


Too funney. You ain't sold dem Thugs yet?
BushwackerinPA
February 4, 2009
Member since 12/9/2004 🔗
649 posts
keepin those trying to get rid of my snoops.

I really like my thugs and the looks they are get are enough to keep them;).
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