Well we did it today! We made a trip to a resort we never made it to yet. MASSANUTTEN! It should be called Mass of Nuthin! Let me explain without sounding like a jerk or a gaper.

The Resort: At first glance on the ride through the resorts network of roads it looks great. Updated buildings and plenty of other things to do for the family if you are into things other than skiing. Waterpark, tennis, hiking, jogging, etc. What you will find though for skiing is quite poor. Here are the reasons why.

1. The price for an 8 hour lift ticket for a weekend was $69. WOW! This place must be awesome.

2. The lifts are almost as old as Blue Knobs lifts. (2-2 seaters). (2 Quads). One of the quads runs on the flat for about 1,600 ft. Then the other quad runs up the moutain to the two experts at the top. The lifts are slow, very slow.

3. The expert terrain- These are really like intermediates. Not very fun. Heck, the intermediates had more pitch to them at this resort.

4. If you rent skis for others in your group beware. They rent out straight skis. Not even the parabolics from the early 90's, Just some old K2 planks. Very poor gear selection as seen on numerous gapers. Lookout as well for skiers who are out of control and standing in front of the lifts that hit you everytime you get off of them. This is a bad combo and ski patrol does nothing to really help the matter.

Have fun guy's and enjoy Mass Of Nuthin!
The only good thing were the food prices. You can buy a meal for under $8. Plus they have beer. Hooray beer! I think that they like to say that they have long runs of skiing and a higher vertical than other resorts, but if you go there beware. They will try to pimp you out for a timeshare. This place is a clip shop trust me!

Sounds like you had a character building day...

For Sure. I had to excercise some good manners even though the resort was just boring. I don't wanna be a hater. I just don't want people to run all the way down there without knowing what is in their future. I am sure some people love it, but probably not anyone on this site. Considering most people here are more advanced skiers looking for a new challenge. We didn't find any here though. Unless you count patience building!
Later Guys!

I've never been, but several other people have described it as Mass of Nothing. Hey, we need to hear the good and the bad.

I agree, Massanutten is not worth the drive. Especially not worth the high lift ticket prices.

Oh, its 9:00 pm. I should be recieving my night call from their time share sales company. For some reason they hang up when i tell them to put me on their do not call list. Thanks DC Ski Expo!

If most people on DCSki are expert skiers, then I guess I should give up on looking for people to ski with. To each his own . . . I like Mnut and will continue to ski there for what it is, not what it isn't. Us intermediates like to have fun too.

I'll ski with ya marz.

Pretty strong and choosey words for what at best is an opinion! I have had some great times at the Nut, Vail, and all the Utah resorts, and over 90 resorts world-wide. In other words, enjoy what you have and where you are at the moment. If you do not like skiing the Nut then go elsewhere....do not just trash it (state the negatives..OK...but don't use a work like "stink" in the title of your thread. By the way, you did not mention the scenry from the top, whether it is the view of the valley or the kettle inside Massunutten, it truly is unique for most ski mountains.
The Colonel

The Blue ridge Mtn's are very scenic..put some icing on em & they are Gorgeous!..I remember the 1st time at Wintergreen during a summer trip & hiking over to some rock outcrop on the south side of the Mtn & being totaly amazed at the view...I thought the slopeside view was the Bomb up till that point..

I understand the frustration of going to ski "resorts" only to find out that the stats are fudged and the cost expensive. This is a reason why I have a "home" mountain and IF I want to experience other hills, I check to see what my DC Ski buddies suggest. Most of the mid atlantic ski areas aren't destination areas, meaning that you wouldn't want to spend a fortune and a week there. The shoe is close as it gets in that catagory as well as CV and T-line in combination with Wisp to the north. Other than that you are best to look Boone, NC or the Poconos for a variety of ski areas in close proximity, each having their good points as well as their drawbacks. What I find amazing is the cost of a lift ticket at most ski areas. If there is concern for the future of skiing it should be all about what it costs a family for lifts, rentals, and lessons on weekends. It's prohibitive for a lot of families.

It is always interesting that two people can ski the same mountain, the same weekend and have different experiences. I skied Massanutten for the first time on Sun. First, everthing Jamie posts is true, but I still had a great day on Sun. Sure the lifts are old and slow, but so are they at most of the resorts in the region. As far as the terrain goes, there are no significant steeps or bumps there. Indeed, I'm not sure any of the trails should be rated black. But on the positive side, they had just finished blowing on Diamond Jim and I had 5 runs on Diamond Jim and Paradice virtually all to myself in the morning. The views at the resort are outstanding--no doubt in my mind that this is the most scenic of the 5 local resorts. And yes, Diamond Jim and Paradice are intermediate slopes but two points come to mind--one it keeps the masses away and two (by my Google Earth calculations)these are two 3500+ runs with 825 of vertical, served by an expert only quad, with good views and undulating terrain. This is about as good as you can get locally (and arguably at most resorts regionally). I guess my ending thought is that we all could find something wrong with each of the resorts on the these pages (even the revered SS, 7s, BK, TL/CV). Providing good constructive criticism and highlighting the positive helps us all.

Remember, the colored trail rating system is relative within the resort, so there should always be some of each at every area. SOMTHING has to be the "Most Difficult"

Uh, Clay..... u ever ski Bryce????

Your right Clay, I was comparing resort to resort which is not how the rating system is intended to work but is something we all do.

Sorry Colonel, but I'll strongly disagree with you. If I want to read puff pieces on the local mountains, I'll go to the resort's own website and drink their kool aide. I want to hear the good and the bad, especially for areas I haven't been to. If someone chooses to post only negative things about their trip, so be it.



So if someone raves about an epic day on the slopes, that is at best an opinion, and should not be posted here??????

I wasn't trying to say everyone here is an expert skier. I however do believe that 90% of the people here are experts. We all learn new things everytime we go out skiing, experts or not. I wasn't trying to belittle people on here in any way shape or form. I just think that when a resort has cons that outweigh the pros then it needs to be mentioned. I agree that 2 skiers can have a different opinion of a resort when skiing the same day. The thing I take issue with is that my opinion doesn't account for how I was treated, I was only basing my opinion on the slopes and the lack of good runs. I love to spend more time on my planks than on my butt on the lift. That is the major reason why I didn't like the place. If I wanted to spend more time on my butt, I would have became a snowboarder.
One thing I forgot to mention was how insane the terrain park was. For a place that has very limited advanced skiing, it sure had jumps and boxes and rails that were set up for people above and beyond the experience of any of the skiers on the mountain that day, including myself. These jumps were something like what I saw at Whistler. 40 gaps from the tip of the 6 foot high kickers down to the starting point of the transition.

So you guys tell me why this is a good resort. Is it because it rents out straight ski's? Is it because pushes timeshares on people by phone all hours of the night? Or is it because it has limitied skiing for advanced skiers and insane terrain park features that 1 person out of 1,000 can use? Or is it the lift lines that are so small you can't even fit through them and manuever around people? Maybe it's the high prices?

Here are the pros:
Great View
Family Environment
Cheap Food
Beer allowed

Cons:
Long lift lines
Old lifts
Timeshare Vultures
Outdated rentals
Terrain park set up for semi pros
Limited Skiing for intermediates to advanced skiers.

I wonder why dcski member Keith spent the day on the great slopes at Massanutten served only by an expert chair. Seems to me that I remember about 90% of the people there snowplowing out of control on these slopes. Not a knock on you John, just wanted to know how beginners on rentals end up on these hills. Lack of ski patrol effort perhaps? Nope, just the fact that they don't post signs for any of the hills mentioning no rental gear allowed. Liberty even does that. WOW! I did enjoy trying to fight my way around beginners and out of control gapers all day though. That did add that extra bit of, "I hope I don't get railed here skiing comfortably and in control", excitement I was just out looking for.

I would also like to comment on why I don't think I should highlight the positive and put people at risk to having a wasted day. We only get a few good days of epic conditions in our region and it shouldn't be spent going somewhere you have been mislead about. No sugar coating with me.

I don't know about most people here, but I thought this was called DCSKI.COM
Not www.DCSKIANDFAMILYANDGREATVIEWSOFMOUNTAINSWITHTIMESHARESFORGAPERS.COM

I am now changing my rating of Massanutten to Stinkies, because Stinks was just too bold for some people on here! I should have used less profane words. I hope I didn't hurt anybody's feelings, but it looks like I did. It is amazing that a nice guy like me can ski for charity and then give people an honest account of a resort for them to judge on their own, but then be riddled with people who think I am just a jerk who thinks he is the man. I came to ski, not check out the view. I hope one day people take skiing as seriously as I do. I thought that Dcski was the best site around for informative discussions regarding skiability of local mountains. I didn't think that it was run by a group of oversensitive skiers. I guess I should take a skiers anger managment class, so I can learn to use less hurtful words like stinks. Have a great day people. Donate to my charity marathon if you want. If not oh well. I think this will be my last post on this board anyway, good luck getting quality info on any resort I go to now. For those who agree with me on all parts, sorry. You can blame the Colonel on this.

I think it was the subjective editorial in the posts that the Colonel is referring to. I think the specific issues listed in both your posts are dead on--no question. Very helpful information. But when you move into words like "stinks" or "I came to ski and not check out the view" you move into the subjective. As an example, reasonable skiers could differ on the surrounding environment's effect on the skiing experience (e.g., complaints about slopeside condo's). I thought your original post was fine and just wanted to highlight the irony of the different experiences. P.S., I was there from first chair to 11:30 on Sunday, which could account for the different experiences.

Sorry, but that is as objective a statement as you can get without simply listing numbers such as the lift tickets cost X, vertical drop is Y, I measured the lift line wait to be Z. The original post criticized the challenge of the advanced trails. Follow-up posts complemented the view. That is specific information I want to hear and I'll decide for myself which of the two is more important. If I want further info, I'll ask follow up questions of the original poster, such as what trails in the Mid-Atlantic do you consider to be challenging?

For those of you who are saying the views are impressive from Massanutten, isn't that then an subjective statement?

Positive post = objective? Negative post = subjective?

The statement does not state a fact about the resort so I don't see how the statement is as objective as you can get. And I think there are other factors to consider with a resort, otherwise why all the talk in posts about apres ski, drive times, food choices, lodging and road conditions, etc. Of course we all go to ski, but I would rather ski a bunny slope on a mountain than a black on a converted waste dump--so this other information is always helpful. For example, the first post told me a lot of things that had nothing to do with skiing--beer, inexpensive food, bad rental fleet, and time share sales pressure. This is great info and would lead me to reconsider anything other than a quick day trip there. This is a good discussion because sometimes on this site there is not enough critical discussion and comparison of the local resorts.

JohnL...the Foxnews commentator for DCSKI...Fair & Balanced!...

Nah, I'm more Campbell Brown. No bias, no bull.

Actually, I'm plenty biased when it comes to skiing.

Jamie, welcome to DCSki.

Massanutten is what it is. Great snowmaking allows it to operate in a location that is often deprived of natural snow. Somewhat maligned because the trail layout is sort of compressed into two vertical prongs and doesn't ski as big as one might think given the 1110' vertical. I don't ski it as often as I used to, but they used to let Dixie Dare bump-up by midseason presenting a decent little mogul workout. Unlike some mountains with more lifts and trails, there is an almost guaranteed escape from any bad crowds at Mass by sticking to the quad chair in mid-afternoon. This is convenient for better skiers because it serves two of the best advanced runs. The area draws a lot from Fredericksburg, Richmond, Norfolk, NC and points south, so the clientele includes a lot of folks who don't ski much or even see snow much. Tubing is huge and the mammoth, new indoor waterpark draws a crowd year round. You can ski there cheaply at night, or go in March when they offer nice discounts. I don't remember non-parabolic rentals. However, not all the rentals are the same in quality even though priced the same. They have some better rental gear, get there early and ask for it, act like you know how to ski.

I skied Massanutten back in 1986, and it was such a horrible experience that neither I nor anyone in my family has ever been back. They somehow turned 18 inches of fresh snow into ice, the lines were horrendous, some of the trails were closed (again, after 18 inches of snow in an otherwise fantastic winter to boot), the vast majority of the terrain was short and flat with two trails that could pass as decent (though that has since expanded), and it took to long to get there. I'd take Roundtop anyday over Massanutten.

That said, I recognize it's been a long time since I've been there and they've added a lot of terrain (for Massanutten). It could be much better now than it was.

But also- hey u no wat (as Jimmy would say ) if you have a bad day at a ski area that's worth just as much to hear as having a good day. It's not like this board hasn't been known to rip Timberline from time to time. As long as you don't become obsessive with it and acknolwedge that it's just your experience, that's fine. And there's very little on a message board that could pass for objective.

I'm with JohnL, it's worth hearing the good 'n bad of a place.

Too late.

The flip side of Massanutten becoming a timeshare destination in the late 1990's is that provided a reason to put money into upgrading the ski slopes and adding other activities for non-skiers like more tubing lanes and the waterpark. While my daughter likes to ski, she enjoys the other fun just as much. But without Lift 6, we wouldn't be going back now that she can ski blue and black runs elsewhere in the SE.

I wouldn't be doing the drive from Raleigh if we weren't timeshare owners. We discovered the place in 2002 mainly because it's close to DC so friends and family from there can easily join us. As owners, we get a 20% discount on lifties even if we aren't staying at the resort.

I've learned how to work the RCI system to my advantage. Hard to beat $300-400 for a 2BR condo with giant jacuzzi for a full week. Since we share with friends, it can cost me less than a hotel room even if we can only stay 2 nights. Plus there are plenty of motels 20 min away on flat road in Harrisonburg for a quick trip, unlike WG or SS.

My biggest gripe is about the food. No breakfast at all on the slopes. Can't say the lunch options are too interesting either. Prices are decent since it's more of a service to timeshare owners than a cash cow. The Mnut ski team parents sell lunch food up on the mountain on weekends. So if it's warm enough to eat outside, there is no need to go to the lodge when things are busy midday.

The worst problem here is that people tend to grade my post as if it were a thesis for my masters in skiing.
I think that I summed up all the positive and negative issues with the resort. All said and done, if you are going to go for a 2 and a half hour ride to a resort it should have a nice view and have nice ameneties, but it should also have the type of skiing you are looking for as well. I love harder more challenging terrain. That is what floats my boat. Some people may say, "Hey I would love to take my kids somewhere and everyone will have something to do while the other family members ski.", then this resort might be for you. If you have tons of money and aren't that worried about being pestered for a timeshare, and you are willing to sacrifice your skiing for the sake of others. I just am not that person. Thanks for the backup JohnL. I think you got the point of my post. I hope it helped someone.

The best place I have ever skied is Whistler Backcountry for a week. The best local run out of Whitetail, Liberty, Roundtop, 7 Springs, Hidden Valley, and Blue Knob should go to Blue Knob's Stemobogan trail for their bowl and for their pretty steep Extrovert slope. I have my issues with Blue Knob as well, but I don't sit in their crappy lodge all day and their lifts are older than Massanutten, but the skiing more than makes up for the lifts. I also see that they have aquired a new manager who has the lifties wearing new jackets instead of camo coveralls, and has done a pretty decent job of getting things running smoothly up there as compared to previous years. They even put out new signs to keep people from cooking in crockpots on the lodge tables. This helps others get a chance to sit down when they are hungry. Last year I contimplated eating someones chili out of their crockpot, just because I could. Yummy!

Later Guys.

Ullr.... If I was a gaper, I would have written a post that didn't include many items positive and negative. It was nice to hear from some of the timeshare owners and how their experience is better because of their circumstances with family and such. Just remember that once a gaper always a gaper and that it takes one to know one so watch how you treat others on the board. I am suprised coming from a senior member here that i would get this kind of disrespect for posting a piece that states my opinion. Posts on these threads are always opinion, right down to the ski advice. What works well for others might be bad for me. It's just nice to know what you are getting into before you go. I am not telling anyone not to go. Just telling others what I have found. People that might have the same ideas as I do on how a resort should function and what I want it to offer. Can you feel me dog?

Did not call you a gaper. The reference was jerk or gaper. Think about it.

Very uncool to post what you did. There are a lot of people who work at Mass and who are long time members. Some of which patrol (which you took a poke at as well, and is where my real dislike came into play). I held off as long as I could. Mama always told me, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all". You did not post what you did to "warn" anyone. There are no people here looking to make a 1st time visit, and you know that.

You did it to either show people how "core" you are, or to just vent, either way, the wrong thing to do. If you really wanted to help, contact them directly, or post it on a travel review site.

You are right you are not a gaper, you are super gnar. Tell me again about the rentals??????????????

Bummer to hear that Dixie Dare is not allowed to mogul anymore. Sweet bump run when I was there many years ago.

Length 3500, vert 825. Average grade = 4.24. Fact or opinion that this is a very gradual pitch for experts?

Bummer also about Blue Knob lifties in uniforms and no crock pots in lodge.

Ullr...just like the time a few years ago when I asked the selling price of a property being offered at 7 Springs and you came back with "If you have to ask how much, you can't afford it" Now THAT was a pretty snide remark...wonder what your momma would say? Forgot? Go to #33218 - 02/14/07 07:55 PM in the classifieds (:^O)>>>

I worked in the Mid-A ski industry for ten years or so at three different resort and one thing those of us who cared about customer service always said was..."A happy/satisfied customer will go home satisfied and might return, while a unhappy/unsatisfied customer will go home and tell 10 people about their bad experience and those 10 people will then in turn tell 10 more people." ...so you better make sure your customer service is damn good!

In my opinion, because Mid-A mountain are so small and they try to attract/cram as many people as they can into small areas lots of times customer service lacks, especially for skiers who are experienced and who have enjoyed the grand terrain and ameninties at "bigger" resorts.

For me some of Mid-A resorts feel like amusement parks more than ski areas. It is was it is I guess. I can see how people are excited to have somewhere to ski...I can also see how people are sometimes dissapointed with service and quality.

I think positive and negative reports of ski areas are both useuful for readers. I don't know if refuting someone's dissapointing personal experience is as usefull as reporting your own pleasent experience...but it sure makes for dramatic reading.

13.6 degree average slope angle? Did I eff up my geometry and use of Windows calculator?

Average slope angle for an entire trail can be very misleading if you have long run-outs... Slope angle for 300 or so vertical feet is a better measure of steepness.

Nonetheless, 13.6 is pretty flat for the most challenging terrain on the mountain.

Didn't Rusty measure some slope angles a few years back on the greens and blues at Whitetail?

When I was there last Sun, I think they were trying to let it bump up. It was ungroomed (everything else was) with new MM snow and an older whale right in the middle and small bumps forming below and to the sides of the whale.

And yeah, Pardice and Diamond Jim are intermediate slopes, but they are relatively long with some decent vert. and there just aren't that many runs under 2 hours from DC metro with that length and drop.

Oh and not to hijack a thread that deserves it, but how are you computing average grade. I would calculate a 23.5% slope at 13 degrees.

Sweet conditions at Massanutten today! Didn't run into any ice at all out on the slopes... just a couple of inches of freshies now tomorrow might be a different story!

Yea, just went back and looked at that one. Never saw your response. Sorry.

But if you would like to discuss it face-to-face, I will make an effort to get to BK on the 20th.

Now, I did NOT start a post with Massanutten Stinks as the title and bash a place that many very cool people who post here work at (skibummsp). The post stands, the op did not want to come off looking like a tool, and in my opinion he did.

Let me know if you are going to BK (not the kind of guy who backs down from thing he says on the internet).

Well, I'll take another dip in this rapidly deteriorating thread. I would agree with many of the posters that Massanutten has some issues. And I agree with those that like to go there to ski. I have had good days and bad at the Nut. I can remember when their snowmaking, under the management of the fellow who went to Wintergreen to manage their snowmaking, was easily the most prolific around. They made snow whenever possible, and that philosophy eventually became rooted at many of the other Mid-A resorts. And, just because of their location, I have skied on their ice more than once.
Anyway, I digress, what bothered me most about the initial posting was not all the opinions of the writer, anytime any of us writes about a resort we are usually expressing an opinion, my problem was the title of this thread because Massanutten does "not stink". Why not a title like..."had a bad day at the Nutt", or "Massanutten Not For Me". Such titles express opinion without striking the reader with a lightening bolt and still allows the writer to express whatever he/she wants to be told to the waiting DCSki masses.
Just an opinion, not a sermon.......The Colonel

Can we add global warming to the thread yet?

Massanutten is what it is. We all have our faves and natches out east. I still think Whitetail would be the best ski area in the Mid-A if it was a) 1000 feet higher and b) faced any direction but southeast (well, south or southwest would be worse). I've mentioned that before and been groused at about it, but Whitetail has some great terrain. Others disagree. De gustibus non disputadum, or whatever those dead Romans used to say...

AMEN!
The Colonel

Hey Guys Relax,

As a member of Massanutten's management I have been following this thread with great interest. While I wish that Mr Grose had a better expierence at Massanutten he is certainly entitled to his opinion. He made some valid complaints that need to be and will be addressed. It is against my better judgement to respond in this forum but here goes.

1. While on the high end of regional pricing,the price of an 8 hour weekend/holiday flex ticket is $64 not $69. By the way a Special Value Season pass is $199 for Sunday - Friday and any night.

2. The lifts, especially the two doubles, are old and slow. Running them any faster would cause us to have to stop them more than we do now. Hopefully, this will be addressed in the near future.

3. Expert Terrain, as stated, its all relative. While not the steepest, Lift # 6 is 835' + vertical. It is more vertical than other resorts in the Mid Atlantic. Whether or not you like the pitch or variety, Lift # 5 is 695' vertical and more than most lifts and many resorts in the region. We do intend to let Dixie Dare bump up as usual. The steepest part of the hill is Dixie Dare at ~ 37%. Yes, it does ski smaller than 1110' but it is 1110'. We all wish it was 2000' and 200" of snow a year but thats not what we have.

4. Rentals: Yes, some of our equipment is older than the rest. However, they are all "shaped skis". The problem is older generation "shapes" now look like "straight" skis. Compare your first "shaped" skis to what you are on now.


Other random comments:

Lift mazes: Valid complaint, sometimes hampered by availble snow but not last weekend. FYI, last weekend was the busiest of the year.

Patrol: We make every effort to educate our often less educated guests. Point taken.

Terrain Park: It was Too Big last weekend, already toned down. We gave the Park Boys more snow than they were used to.

Timeshare: Yes, we are a Timeshare Resort. You may have been called at home to tour the property but I seriously doubt you had any interaction with our sales staff on your day trip.

Thanks for the critque and the props for the view and beer. I prefer the JOMO lager.

Kenny Hess
Director or Operations
Massanutten Resort

Ken,
Thanks for your reply. It's good that a member of the Massanutten team has input to this thread. Every resort has it's good points and not so good points as well as it's good days and not so good days. In my opinion it reflects very well on Mass that you are listening to what people on DCSki have to say!

Oh - just saw it was your first post - welcome! Hopefully you can engage in other conversations as well.

Your welcome and Colonel, the gentleman and snowmaking icon you were referring to, Uel Gardner recently passed away in New Hampshire.

See how easy that was?

While I agree with many of the points made by the original poster, I've always liked Massanutten for what it is - a place 1 hr away from me that I can go to for some quick turns. I agree that BK has the best skiing in the Mid-Atlantic, but there are only so many times in a season I have time to do the 4 or 5 hour drive. I've never been to Massanutten on a weekend - when I go, it's midweek when I can get a 4 hr ticket for 30 bucks or so. I think that's pretty reasonable, especially when Dixie Dare is bumped up.

Speaking of bumps, I recall that a couple years ago Massanutten let the left side of Paradice bump up. Ken, is there any possibility of this happening again this year? I think it would really enhance the skiing experience.

Welcome Ken

It is nice to have ski area management weigh in and especially in such a constructive way. I'm a pass holder at WTG but I will give the Nut a visit late season when I can afford it.

GRK

The great thing about DCSki is that people can post candid opinions of local resorts -- both the good and bad. And, as you may have seen, management at most resorts is eager to see what comments people have and to learn from them, and address problems where possible.

The problem isn't with posting negative comments or sharing your opinions, but the tone. As soon as I saw the title of this thread -- "Massanutten Resort Stinks" -- I thought "oh, boy." That's an inflammatory title and immediately stirs up emotions that aren't very productive, and get in the way of offering opinions about the strengths and weaknesses of resorts. A better title might have been "Massanutten Resort - the good and bad" (since you included some of both in your post) or, simply, "Firsthand Report: Massanutten Resort."

I don't think any resort in the mid-Atlantic "stinks." We are lucky to have so many resorts in this region making the best out of a short and finicky season and less-than-majestic mountains. With so many resorts comes variety, and naturally what may be a strength to one person may be a weakness to another. People look for different things in a resort. Saying that a resort "stinks" in the title is not only unfair to the resort, but is offensive to other skiers who have quite the opposite view. Again, I don't think sharing your opinions is what caused a negative reaction among many -- it was the tone of your title. Although DCSki readers have never been afraid to engage in vigorous debates, it's uncommon to see a title like that around here.

Amen, Scott.
And Ken, welcome. The Nut is a beautiful place to ski.
The Colonel

As Scott said: As soon as I saw the title of this thread -- "Massanutten Resort Stinks" -- I thought "oh, boy."

My concern was that the board could degenerate into what most boards are . . . name calling places where I wouldn't want my kids to look. I think we recovered nicely.

My rule of thumb is if the POST TITLE dominates the RECENT FORUM COMMENTS on the bottom of the front page, it has degenerated :-)

I love the JOMO. I think I'll come up this weekend and have a few.

Well, I like Kenny already, since he shows the right combination of diplomacy and "ah what the heck". Thanks for posting your candid feedback, it is appreciated. I wish more ski area management participated on DCski.

To be honest, I don't like any of the local resorts on a weekend -- it's just not worth it in my opinion. The people that tend to flock there on weekends have more patience and perhaps different expectations than I do. In contrast, weekdays are always wonderful. A large portion of the original poster's rant seems to involve weekend issues in my opinion, and could apply to almost any resort in the region in one way or another.

I was going to end my involvement in this thread with my previous post but since I was asked a question concerning bumps I'll chime in one more time.

We would love to let Paradice "Bump up" on one side again this year. Unfotunately, due to its width and pitch it usually takes a decent dump to get decent bumps. If it was up to me I'd let the whole mountain bump up but that is not what a vast majority of our customers want. If given the opportunity there will be bumps on Paradice or Diamond Jim this season.

For obvious reasons if you want to talk about grooming or anything else PLEASE start a new thread.

Nice to hear from you, Ken. I have a lot of friends who work at the nut and for the most part, my experiences there have been positive. What needs to be understood is that for what they have in terrain and other features, Massanutten provides a good product. I learned to ski there many years ago. They offer a learn to ski program which is excellent as well as very affordable. I organized the Culpeper learn to ski group back in the 80s and it is still one of the most popular programs in our community now offered through the county's parks and rec. Many individuals were introduced to skiing through the nut's introductory program who would have never skied otherwise. The management of the nut has always been more than willing to accomodate.
One bad experience is not necessairly a good barometer to base your judgement on unless it was totally horrific. In which case there would be very few mid atlantic ski areas I would recommend because I have experienced "bad" service, conditions, and terrain at most from time to time.

Well Ken,
Thanks for the info on your resort. I do agree that I should have taken the tame side and posted a kinder, gentler post title. I take it back. The resort doesn't totally stink. The fact that you took the time to post regarding how the resort functions and what you are doing to improve upon it speak wonders to me. The only problem I see with what you posted refers to the semi-shaped ski rentals. How can you guy's charge full rental price for skis that have been well paid for more than a decade ago? Time to get some new skis all around. No joke. Seriously, these skis are from 1990-1992 era. I think that in the past 19 years you could afford to buy some new ones. I saw a woman from Fairfax who was up for the day. She was wearing a short pair of slim barely shaped skis made by K2. She was skiing in top form but was having some issues with the skis. Had she been on some newer skis, she would have been rippin it up tremendously.
The lift mazes were ridiculous. There was tons of room to move these things out and away from the lift entrance. I hate to have skis and boards slapped all over my skis for no reason.
Ullr can take a chill because calling someone a jerk or gnar is just as bad as calling someone a gaper.
I don't remember posting anything horrible about the ski patrol other than the fact that they were not really keeping people away from the offloading area of the lifts. So I hope that patrollers weren't mad at me for saying that. It was something that needed to be done almost all day.
In a "nut" shell I would just like to apologize to the many readers of this thread and people who are so offended by the way I posted the title. I didn't think that stinks was an offensive word and I had no intention of hurting anyone's feelings. I hope that I do not get bills in the mail for anyone's visit to their therapist, but if they need my address they can call The "NUT" and ask for it from their timeshare department who has my address and number on standby, since they call the house like every night. I have had calls come in at 9:30 at night from these goofs. No Joke! Massanutten had a person at the expo asking people to enter in a contest to win a free weekend stay at the resort. I filled out the info and asked if it was a timeshare. They said no way. We would not be called unless we won the free stay. Instead I have a woman who calls me from their outsourced timeshare sales office. This woman asks for my wife and refers to the paperwork she filled out at the Ski Expo. Funny thing is that my wife doesn't ski and I am the one who went to the expo, not my wife. This has happened to my friend who went and filled out the same information. When I ask her to stop calling they hang up. Then they call back an hour later. I couldn't get them to stop calling for about a month. When I tally this up with my experience at "THE NUT", it equals "Stinks". Sorry about the bad word again you all. I hope you can see why it was frustrating. Maybe it frustrated Ken Hess, which is exactly why I have done this. It is about time that they pay for the horrible stuff that they put people through with their timeshare gimmicks. The place is a glorified clip shop at best. I am surprised the Colonel loved it, but I guess that is because he has been to over 90 resorts worldwide and I should listen to everything he tells me.
In response to the gentleman who commented on how this place is not here for people to look up destinations for their 1st time visit to a resort. Give me a break man. You know you have looked up what other think on other resorts before you go there. If not this place wouldn't be helpful. That's why this place is so good. It gives us ideas on where we would like to ski. I would come here to find out about most mountains I haven't been to. That includes mountains worldwide.

You remind me of myself when I 1st started to post here on DCSki (& many posts thereafter!)...It was me against the world!...some folks name is mud ..yours is Grose ...Keep up the Fight..Adjust some things here & there & life will go on..Have fun!

Ken-

Thank you so much for the post! I would like to encourage you and other ski resort managers to be bold enough to speak up in forums such as this. I think this was a very impressive move on your part, as well as Massanutten's for doing so. It's great to see some "hands on" management like this!

Of course you know the rule that "the customer is always right." But sometimes we gripe about things simply because we don't understand what's going on (I'm not speaking here of Massanutten specifically, but having worked in managerial positions I see how it happens on a day-to-day basis). As a manager, you get confronted with two choices: ignore the gripes because they are, in your opinion, tendentious or address them as best you can with the hopes of, at the least, clearing up misunderstandings. The latter is still not as common as it should be, I think. So I appreciate your coming onto this message board and providing some insight into Massanutten's thinking and it's own concerns for its ski experience as well.

Take care, and thanks again, even if I don't live in the DC Metro anymore. Cheers!

- RZ

Sorry, I meant to say length:rise ratio, not grade.

Why not move this discussion to the new thread for continued dialogue about Massanutten.
The Colonel