First, a little about myself. I'm 198, 5' 10", skiied for about 5 years, have taken a number of lessons, am probably an advanced skiier (last week skiied all of BrettonWoods, most of Wildcat, and Loon except for the trees), and really enjoy carving. I like groomers, soft bumps, and widely spaced trees. I'm not particularly thrilled with going extremely fast and tend to like a softer ski (found K2 Recon, Rossi z9, and Atomic Crimson too stiff in 169, 170, and 169 respectively). There. So much for the personal information.

I've been demoing some skis and think I've got it narrowed down to the Atomic Whiteouts. Problem is, I tried the 171s but didn't get a chance to try the 164s. The 171s were fine but they felt a little long compared to the B78 in 166 I tried the day before. A pair of K2 Crossfires (in 160) felt too short. I currently ski old Rossi SuperT Axiums in 170. I can get a great deal on a pair of Whiteouts in 164s but am worried they'll feel too short and/or I'll "outgrow" them.

One last thing...the demo guy at Attitash said that Atomic measures their skis differently so they are a little longer than the stated number.

Any suggestions, should I go for the 164s??

No

Look, a ski usually lasts about 100 days them it loses it's camber and becomes a rock ski anyway . If the deal on the 164s is really good, jump at em. I had 172 Rossi rpms and move to the rossi z9 in a 162 and prefer the z9. It's better in all conditions cuz it's wider shovel, waist, and tail. Now if I want to crank some fast GS turns, I'm back to the rmps. I'll probably buy another pair of 162 z9s next season.

Considering the type of ski the Whiteout is, I think you'd be better off with the 171cm. I'd only go 164cm in your case for a dedicated groomer ski, and at a 79mm waist, the Whiteout is not one.

I think you're better of going longer if in doubt. You can adjust and grow into a longer ski, and it will reward you with more edge hold, more control, and more stability at speed. Better in soft snow too. Going too short will result in some deficiencies that are hard to compensate for. Generally, the only way to makeup for a lack of edge, stability, and control on a particular ski is to throttle back your skiing. If you get out of control and need some reserve, the ski won't have it.

This might be one of those questions where only you can make the call to go with the shorter, untested length. Since the 171 felt long to you I'm inclined to say go for the shorter one. But if still doubtful, another good deal will probably always come along and you could wait until you're certain. I go back and forth on the length issue and personally ski long, but I know many far better skiers than I that are on very short skis and would not hesitate to go with 164 in your weight/height category on a strong newer model ski. What age are you and do you plan to ski mostly in mid-Atlantic?

I'm 41 and in the past have only skied the mid-Atlantic (except one weekend in Taos). Last week we ventured up to New Hampshire and skied 6 days at 5 hills. We had a great time and will likely do the trip again next year.

BTW thanks a lot for the input so far!

Going "short" on skis was a fad a few years back when shape skis were new, and it was only until the super carvers of a few years ago (6*, RX-8, Metron, etc) showed up that it really made sense. Those skis finally brought the structural technology needed to make a short ski stable. Some people still go short on those skis, but I think most experts have moderated to about nose height (at least based on observations on Epic ski). Again, though, these are hardpack carver skis, intended for limited all-mountain use and not for soft snow. On all-mtn skis and mid-fats, nose to head height makes sense. Longer for free-ride and powder skis.

One factor I neglected originally is weight -- Steve's weight could easily overlap into the 6'1" - 6'2" height range, and that should be taken into account.

Myself, at 6'1" and 190lbs, have hardpack carvers that are 175cm, mid-fats that are 180cm, and free-ride skis that are 184-186cm. From experience, I would definitely not want to go shorter. In fact, my 175cm carvers already feel too short sometimes.

One thing that has made this particularly difficult is that the conditions that I tested skis in were very different.

The Whiteouts/Crimsons/Crossfires were tested in 7" of new heavy wet snow. The B78/Z9 were tested on hardpack. The Raider/Recon/Z11 were tested on mash potato snow.

That does make for a mix of apples, oranges, and bananas! I'd say if any of the skis made the heavy wet snow easier, that would be a good data point to go on. I have found that new snow and crud performance, especially with heavy snow, can really separate good skis from so-so skis.

This probably deserves a thread of its own, but skier 219 and others, what do you think of above statement by Kim regarding ski life spans?

Depends how you take care of them. I normally do 40-60 ski days per year. Buy a new pair an average of twice every two years. The old pair, which are now my new rock skis, Volkl Supersport 6-stars, have the camber almost as good as new. I've worn out the edges before the camber twice from too much tuning.

Is that the same a buying a new pair an average of once every year?


aaron

Oy! Thanks for the catch... Two every three years...

Lou,
How was the skiing at Snowshoe last weekend? Did you place first in the pond skimming event?
The Colonel
Oops, I think you posted you had hung up your boards for the year!

Here's a great deal on a 79mm waisted ski with a hard snow bias:

http://www.sierrasnowboard.com/2008-Volkl-Tigershark-12-FootPower-iPT-120-Pistion-38282.asp

Well, Kim is generally full of crap, so ....

I have had skis go dead after a few years, but that was before I was counting ski days. That was back when I got shop grinds, which surely contributed to the problem. 100 days seems reasonable to me.

come on guys... I don't talk about your biological deficiencies Anyway, it also depends on your sking style. Depending on the ski, they sometimes can last as long as 120 + days. My son, 6'-3", 220#s, who raced, was lucky to get a good 70 days before the ski was flat. And that was on race stock which the typical skier cannot usually get unless a special order. I am somewhat aggressive and like variable terrain, am 175#s, buy all mountain expert skis via pro form and seldom exceed the 100 day mark before the boards flatten. Guess it depend on the skier.

Any thoughts on how Atomic measures their sticks? Does anyone have a pair that they can quickly measure? The guy at Attitash (who said Atomic didn't measure the whole way from tip to tail but from convex point to convex point) said I should take that into consideration.

I've heard that regarding Atomics but never owned a pair or skiied them, not that I haven't had an interest in doing so. I'd have to ask a friend who reps them to find out for sure. However the longer vrs shorter argument all depends upon the ski construction, skiing style, skiing surface, her preference (just kidding), and if you have more than one pair. Back in the day, it was the macho thing to ski them as long as possible. Any self respecting guy wouldn't have been caught dead on anything less than 200's. I guess the point of this discussion is you need to go with what works for you. If they feel right, they probably are, regardless of 5/10 cm + - in length.

I would tend to give the exact opposite advice. I've seen way too many skiers on too big (or too stiff) a ski; this really becomes evident in tougher terrain such as steeps, bumps, trees, variable snow, crowded slopes, etc. If you are tired and/or your technique is off, a bigger ski can be more effort to turn.

But a shorter version of the same ski will be less stable at speed.

The proper decision may depend upon if you have a bias toward slalom or GS turns and what type of terrain you want to ski.

I don't see my self as a big speed fiend. I know my wife always beats me down a hill but she takes half the turns I do. I just happen to like the feeling of centrifigul force when I'm turning and seeing how much I can angle my body.

As far as slalom size or GS, I don't really know. I guess I usually let the trail dictate. I like to go edge to edge and so I picture circles on the trail and follow the outline.

Ah!!!!! The purity of a skier who really is doing it because he likes to. Steven, don't let us mumbo jumbo geeks overload you with information that you probably don't need anyway. Some of us tend to pontificate to a fault.
Just get out there and enjoy.

Well I certainly appreciate everyone's input and have learned a lot (the most useful being that I have an excuse for new skis after 100 trips!!).

I realize choosing a length is a subjective thing and a lot of factors go into it. Everyone's input has helped clarify those factors.

Part of the problem is my indecisive nature. My wife tried one ski and declared it the best ski ever. I convinced her to try some more, which she did, and still declared the first one best. No doubt, no vacilation. Bought it on ebay the day we got back (Rossi Attraxion V).

Hey SteveC U ever considered snowboarding??

Of course! But I didn't think I had enough body piercing/art to do it!!

. weird subject -

like i try different skis and when i find one i like i usually stay with it for about 3-5 year (and i use to put in over 100+ days).

i don't really agree a ski is horrible after 100 days unless u are not very good at skiing - like a princes-on-a-pea. i've skied on truly broken skis (no rebound, no edge, no base) and know what they feel like.

i hung out with shawn smith skier and he was tearing it up with volkl park-skis that were way-old with 1990's green-spring bindings.

they usually have less pop and become more damp but that fits what i like.

and if you are a hoppy-bunny i guess that sucks but now really skiing is about laying down long turns and not that uh-uh-uh . right?!

oh err right -sorry- racers - yeah they need all the help they can get - so like swiss-clock-windings if u can wind up a spring it will release and make u go 0.03 seconds faster - for the rest of us who cares. ski racing is becoming so irrelevant now it scares me and i use to be a racer.

i mean really - don't you all have the werewithall to know what ski is best?!??!! u need other people to tell u what is "good" ?!?!?!

that's dumb-

if u buy into that you are just a consumer on the periphery of skiing - the causal user . the stage-parent or the want-to-be ?

i just saw stevie-ray vaughn on tv - do u think he'd bitch about his pooooor ole' beat equipment holdin' him back?! he'd make a string stretched between a tub and a stick sing .

do that with your skis

"boo hooo hoooooo my skis suck, the snodgrass-fat-[censored]-dum-[censored]-pussy-pass say"

"the old looser, the young PA skier, the poser-puss grand-standing little-man"

boo-hoo I have no good stuff to make be seem big.

-- try to get better --

and (sensored) = a$$ ha ha

Yo, Crush.... that stale winter ale seems to have impeached some of ur gray matter cells

Hey, just wanted to thank everyone again for their input (even Crush). I just got the 164s with bindings for $330 (brand new).

I think I'm gonna have a blast on them and if they are too short for me, they would probably be great for my son (or after getting them at such a great deal, I could easily sell them).

Now I have to wait 9 months to try out my new babies!

Termas de Chillán is only half a hemisphere away, almost the same time....

And I got more frequent flyer miles than I can shake a stick at....

You don't need to go to SA.

Tline & 7 Springs are open this weekend. Hunter is open through 4/13. Almost everything in VT is open through 4/20, maybe longer. Even MRG says they hope to be open until 4/20.....

But Termas has skiing from next month until September. And your apres-ski can consist of soaking in steamy natural volcanic water while sipping Pinot Noir in about the only country on the planet with the original French root stock...

- yes -

my post are a bit inane-n-insane but i did have another thought :

you know how we all think, in that little instance:space-out:idle moment -
that little space where you think about how you might die and the circumstances, the objectionable and undignified facts surrounding your death?

- isn't the basis of human indignity distilled into =

dying on the toilet with your pants down.

actually i got lucky once in that :

at an estate sale, i bought an apartment in dc from some old person's estate

who had dies on a toilet

who had no family

and i re-hab-d that place and sold it for

a profit of $130,000

which let me be a ski bum in utah for 5 years

----------

now - find myself worrying over

the now-embarrassment of dying on a toilet

... wait ...

LET US THINK NOT,
of how all our shocking deaths can come to us but

- instead -

how we would like to die
yes

plan how we would like-to-die

--------------

i would like to die under a blue sky

i would like to die skiing with a sudden pain
in my chest

i would like to lay on the snow under a blue-bird sky and die

a smile on my lips as the snowbirds squak

and children laugh far away riding snow.

SteveC,

Good luck with the new boards. I had been lusting after the Volkl AC Motions to replace my beginner Atomic Izors and I bought them yesterday at about half price. Went from 159's to 170's. Now I have to wait until December as well.

Steve (also C)

Oh, if only Stevie Ray was alive today, I know what he'd be doing. Clawing at the inside of his casket.

Sorry, a little cemetery humor.


Steve

I saw SRV on thursday night on channel 32 pbs, same time as crush i think. then i saw SDJ (sammy davis jr) on 32 on friday night. both of those guys were awesome performers with soul.
tying this all together, no matter the length or age of your skis, if you have soul you will enjoy the awesomeness of skiing :-)

- truly word!

While we're on the subject of indignitee
and dying on the WC,

i think something died in my dakine glove, the left one......... no wait if it died it would still be in there but anyways it smells like something died in my glove and after a few hours of skiing, my hand smells like cat pi$$. You may say that it poor personal hygiene on my part but one hand washes the other and only one smells bad........

soo i guess my question is to see if anyone out there has had this problem and get some possible solutions, cannot kill the cat because i don't have one.