Skiing on the local closed mountains?
17 posts
10 users
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mikeh
March 17, 2008
Member since 03/17/2008 🔗
3 posts
Has anyone ever hiked or skinned up one of the local hills after they have closed? I was thinking skinning up Whitetail one morning this week for some exercise and of course the ski down.
skier219
March 17, 2008
Member since 01/8/2005 🔗
1,318 posts
I did last year at Wintergreen, around the first week of April I think. Still plenty of snow, and it was fun, but be on the lookout for crevasses in the snow base, sun cups, running water, and other hazards. It's amazing how fast the snow surface degrades when it's not maintained. And then there are the usual assortment of bare spots, etc. On one slope, they had actually plowed the snow base aside, presumably to get maintenance vehicles through or something.

I got in 6-7 runs on 2-3 trails, some on strips of snow no wider than 3-4 feet in spots. I saw a few workers that smiled and waved at me, but at the end of the afternoon when I was skinning out to my car, a couple maintenance workers freaked out when they saw me, then radioed someone and had a long dialog that was obviously about me! I saw a security truck a short while later, when I was already on my way home. So I'm not planning on going there again without checking with someone first, and asking permission. My guess is that they probably don't allow it for liability issues, which I can understand, but I had no illusions that anyone else was taking a risk other than myself.

Timberline does let people hit the trails after they close. I may head up there instead this year, especially if we get a storm after they close. I was hoping for a solid April snowfall last year, but we never got one. We haven't gotten any big snowfall this season really, so it may be even less likely for something to happen in April.
Ullr
March 17, 2008
Member since 11/27/2004 🔗
531 posts
Let me know if you are going up. This is something I have always wanted to do. Maybe we can get a group together.
The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
March 17, 2008
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,107 posts
Great first post! Welcome mikeh to DCSki. Tell us a little about yourself.
The Colonel \:\)
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Scott - DCSki Editor
March 17, 2008
Member since 10/10/1999 🔗
1,142 posts
I would be careful doing this. Whitetail (and other resorts) are private property and if they're in a bad mood, they could have you arrested for trespassing. There are definitely liability concerns at play here. There are still plenty of resorts open, so it's not too late to ski without trespassing. ;\)
Roger Z
March 17, 2008
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
 Quote:
Whitetail (and other resorts) are private property


...ah, the benefits of ski resorts that lease their lands from the Forest Service...
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
March 17, 2008
Member since 10/18/1999 🔗
1,527 posts
Mmmm... I think regardless, as long as the ski run is part of the leased land, the resort can prosecute. Liability concerns are indeed quite a player. Thoughts?

I do go down hiking to the lake with my Black Lab, Thunder, after the slopes close and take advantage of the solace to play ball with him, as well as give him a good swim.
kwillg6
March 18, 2008
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,034 posts
Lou, good point. I have hiked several mountains and even truck skiied at a few. My question... what's the difference between a hiker in the summer or a hiker or skinner in the winter/spring who chooses to make a few turns? I've had my XC kids run trails at Canaan and T-line in the summer and fall as have others. Just because there's snow on the mountain, does that present a different liability issue or is it the skiing?
Roger Z
March 18, 2008
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
If they want to play that way, you might be right. But a lot of ski areas I've been to (like Cooper a few weeks ago) brag about "second season". They have to shut down because the lease runs out, but people are free to telemark, snowmobile, or find any other way they can to get up and down the ski hill and surrounding terrain as long as there's still snow on the ground. Big Mountain in Montana (maybe not snowmobiles, I'm not sure, but you're free to tele) has the same policy. Some of the other resorts are big enough that they're probably not checking their farthest flung terrain all that often for poachers.

ps- per Jim's response below, let me qualify- a lot of ski areas I have been to that have leases from the U.S. Forest Service ... as a Kansan and former resident of SW VA, I don't advocate trespassing on private property. Sure, it's done, but farms are large and ther's lots of places for the irate farmer/moonshiner to bury your body if he catches you.
Jim
March 18, 2008
Member since 11/22/1999 🔗
317 posts
Guys - don't do it. There is a HUGE difference even between leased U.S. Forest Service land and wholly owned private property. Snowtime Inc. resorts (Liberty, Whitetail and Roundtop) are private property. You can (and likely WILL) be prosecuted for trespassing. Why? Because of the liability issue. Snowtime Inc. must show it is taking reasonable steps to preclude unauthorized use. That includes prosecuting trespasses. Otherwise, someone may trespass, get hurt and sue the area for damages. That can still happen, but by prosecuting all trespassers, Snowtime can claim that it is doing all it can to reasonable deter unauthorized use.
wojo
March 18, 2008
Member since 01/17/2005 🔗
312 posts
 Originally Posted By: Jim
Snowtime Inc. resorts (Liberty, Whitetail and Roundtop) are private property. You can (and likely WILL) be prosecuted for trespassing. Why? Because of the liability issue. Snowtime Inc. must show it is taking reasonable steps to preclude unauthorized use. That includes prosecuting trespasses. Otherwise, someone may trespass, get hurt and sue the area for damages. That can still happen, but by prosecuting all trespassers, Snowtime can claim that it is doing all it can to reasonable deter unauthorized use.


Whitetail will let you climb the mountain in the summer if you check in at the office. I haven't done it, but called last year to ask and they said someone was there pretty much every day.
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
March 18, 2008
Member since 10/18/1999 🔗
1,527 posts
On the other hand, Snowshoe will require you to get a pass to use trails in the summer.

I think the bottom line is that the line is quite thin. And in any case, I'd rather not be the ONE person who is either made an example, or becomes the poster boy for the insurance companies to demand draconian rules that ski operators will have to follow.
Ullr
March 18, 2008
Member since 11/27/2004 🔗
531 posts
Ok, if anyone is looking to do Timberline this year let me know. I think this is the one place where it will be ok to hike.
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
March 18, 2008
Member since 10/18/1999 🔗
1,527 posts
Hiking is one thing, I go hiking in the Snowshoe reservation all the time. However, using the bike trails or taking the lift requires a permit from Snowshoe
kwillg6
March 19, 2008
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,034 posts
Ok, now let me throw another kink into this discussion. In the valley, you have two lift served ski areas and one nordic ski area. All are, in one way or another, accessed/attached by a series of trails, some of which cross F & WL properties and wilderness areas. I know that WG has permission to use their marked trail system (on the maps), but how would this affect the back country skier using the trail system at either alpine area without a permit from that area. It happens all the time and is a reason why a lot of us utilize the valley's winter recreational opportunities. The owners of t-line do not object to this. Neither, at this point, has the operator of CV Resort. However, what I'm hearing it is or may be an issue at other places. \:\(
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
March 19, 2008
Member since 10/18/1999 🔗
1,527 posts
Interesting question... I'm going to see if the Forest Service can answer...
Ullr
March 19, 2008
Member since 11/27/2004 🔗
531 posts
 Originally Posted By: lbotta
Hiking is one thing, I go hiking in the Snowshoe reservation all the time. However, using the bike trails or taking the lift requires a permit from Snowshoe


Sorry, I meant hiking up and skiing down.
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