the lid or no lid debate...fuel for the fire
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oldensign - DCSki Columnist
December 27, 2007
Member since 02/27/2007 🔗
437 posts
Not to bring back the helmet debate....But why not its is fun!

CUSTER TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) - Authorities in the northern Lower Peninsula say a 13-year-old girl was killed when she crashed while skiing at Schuss Mountain.

here is the rest of the story:
http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=c69439cd-5ec6-421f-b37d-760e1e013166

This was all over the local news when I landed in Detriot yesterday. You have to love local news crews. Even though the event took place 200 miles away on a medium size hill near TVC, the local news crew set up shop at the closest resort to interview patrons.

So what do you think? Should kids wear lids? Heck target has lids for $20. They have to be better than nothing and warmer!
Personally I think it is like bike helmets. There was a time when no one wore them, now no one bikes with out them. It is a generational thing as well. Kids who grew up w/ bike helmets will wear them for life. Probally the same for ski helmets.
Roger Z
December 27, 2007
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
It may be controversial, but at least you can't argue that helmet/no helmet isn't pertinent to Mid-A skiing. ;\)

I don't care much for rules saying "thou shalt" and "thou shalt not," but although I don't want to see any mandatory helmet laws, I'll almost certainly put my kids in them when they start skiing. When they get older and better at skiing, it'll be up to them whether to wear them or not.

You mentioned that it is a generational thing... I think that applies in two ways. It seems like slopes are either more crowded or there are more aggressive skiers/riders these days, or both (at least, on the novice and intermediate slopes around the base). My fear isn't hitting a tree (been there, done that) but being hit by someone else who is out of control. The flip side to that, though, is that a helmet is no guarantee that you won't get injured if someone runs into you. Crush also mentioned one time that once you get above 20 mph, helmets don't do much for you.

So... helmets aren't a cure-all, but I'll certainly feel better having my kids wear one when they learn to ski.
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
December 27, 2007
Member since 10/18/1999 🔗
1,527 posts
I wonder just how long it will take insurance companies to catch on and make safety equipment a mandatory requirement for coverage in health insurance policies for children... Conscience building won't occur wholesale until people feel it in the pocketbook...
skiTLINE
December 27, 2007
Member since 12/15/2004 🔗
230 posts
My biggest concern skiing in the Mid A is with 'other' skiers. You know the ones I am talking about. Those which come bombing down the hill without a care in the world.

Many times skiing at T Line I am constantly looking behind me to make sure no one is coming at me. Hence the reason my son (6 now) wears a helmet and me and the wife also now where them.
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JohnL
December 27, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
 Originally Posted By: lbotta
I wonder just how long it will take insurance companies to catch on and make safety equipment a mandatory requirement for coverage in health insurance policies for children... Conscience building won't occur wholesale until people feel it in the pocketbook...


Be careful what you wish for. They may decide it is safer (and cheaper = more profitable) for their policy holders to not ski at all...
JohnL
December 27, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
My bullet points to the annual helmet debate (as reoccurring as crabgrass and the GW debates.)

Is it safer to ski with a helmet? Yep.

Is it a good idea for kids to ski with a helmet? Yep.

To be a role model for the kids, will you have to ski with a helmet? Yep. Along with other concessions.

Is it reckless to ski without a helmet? Nope. Let's be real about this. Lift-serviced skiing has been around for 50+ years. If the risk of skiing without a helmet was that grave (Evel Knievel territory), Darwin's law of natural selection would have taken over. We'd be still be wishing for opposable thumbs, would number about 25, and would be hanging out in terrain parks with knuckle draggers. ;\)

Make your own decision on your own terms.
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
December 27, 2007
Member since 10/18/1999 🔗
1,527 posts
Yes they could do so... But I've been a scuba diver since 1978 and yes, there are restrictions on my insurance, but they are sensible. If you do decomp dives, you're taking a serious risk. But on the other hand, requiring helmets is a sensible idea. After all, if you crack your head open and have to spend 6 months in a rehab facility, or become a paraplegic, we all have to share in those payments.
The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
December 27, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,107 posts
Roger Z,
KIDS???
The Colonel \:\)
jimmy
December 27, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
U guys talking about HEALTH??? insurance? i'd think they'd rather you not wear a helmet a bono saves them from paying for all that.....Sometimes i wear a helmet sometimes i dont but there are a lot of good reasons to wear one \:\) specially when you can find one thats the right color, eh lou??

I'm wearin a silver one how bout you?
Roger Z
December 28, 2007
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
Very hypothetical as of yet Colonel... we both agree that it'd be nice if we were living in the same COUNTRY before we had any children, so this could be a while. \:\(

I don't think we're going to see health insurance companies require helmets anytime soon, though coverage for safer behavior in general could happen in the future. It makes sense to bucket and disaggregate risk, resulting in price pools where people who live healthier and safer lifestyles (and have fewer genetic medical conditions) will pay lower premiums than those who exercise less, eat more, don't wear helmets, etc.

The big obstacle right now, I think, to this type of pooling is the fact that our employers- and not us- are the ones who buy health insurance, so the plan is tailored to the expected characteristics of the firm staff. Scuba insurance, boating insurance, car insurance are all purchased individually, so we get the risk discounts when we sign up. When the employer buys the insurance, any healthy choices we make just gets spread across the employer's portfolio, not ours, so we have very little incentive to fill out ever-longer forms. If our health insurance gets separated from our employer, that would probably be the beginning of a more effective disaggregation process. But I digress.
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
December 28, 2007
Member since 10/18/1999 🔗
1,527 posts
 Originally Posted By: jimmy
Sometimes i wear a helmet sometimes i dont but there are a lot of good reasons to wear one \:\) specially when you can find one thats the right color, eh lou??

I'm wearin a silver one how bout you?


Actually, Jimmy, I have six helmets, one for each outfit color, 4 at Snowshoe in my owner's closet and 3 in DC. As well as Oakley goggles with matching shades... and poles to match too... It's the accessories that determine how good a skier you are... :-)
Clay
December 28, 2007
Member since 04/11/2006 🔗
555 posts
Roger,
As best I understand it (and I have two kids) if you're not living in the same country you at least have to visit now and then to have kids
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
December 28, 2007
Member since 10/18/1999 🔗
1,527 posts
I always thought of Kansas as a different country... :-)
JohnL
December 28, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
 Quote:
Actually, Jimmy, I have six helmets, one for each outfit color, 4 at Snowshoe in my owner's closet and 3 in DC. As well as Oakley goggles with matching shades... and poles to match too... It's the accessories that determine how good a skier you are... :-)


Lou, please don't tell me you own 6 helmets, 6 goggles and 6 pair of six poles?
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
December 28, 2007
Member since 10/18/1999 🔗
1,527 posts
 Originally Posted By: JohnL
Lou, please don't tell me you own 6 helmets, 6 goggles and 6 pair of six poles?


No, John, I own 6 helmets, about 12 goggles and 7 pair of poles.

There is a reason: I keep two wardrobes, one in DC and another one at Snowshoe. And yes, I have helmets that match my outfits. Same as gloves and thermal shirts. Just a preference. That way when I travel to Snowshoe, all that goes into my car is Thunder, my Black Lab, his favorite ball, and me. I get to my place and I even have my own dry goods storage, so all I need to do is stop at Moorefield's Food Lion and get the perishables.

I also keep extra goggles and gloves for my guests. I lost track of how many pair of gloves.
Roger Z
December 28, 2007
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
Don't babies come from storks???

Actually, she's here now, down at the Nelson Atkins and Kemper Museums enjoying the art. Heading down in about two hours to pick her up to go salsa dancing tonight, and we might go to the rodeo tomorrow night. I'm heading to El Salvador in late March/early April then for the religious wedding in November.
fishnski
December 28, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
Rodeo tomorrow huh??...Save a horse...Ride a SKIER!!....stay tuned!
tromano
December 28, 2007
Member since 12/19/2002 🔗
998 posts
I can think of a few reasons to wear a helmet and not many on the other side... Concussions suck, even if its not life threatening, it can really mess you up for a long time. Traumatic Brain injuries etc you don't bounce back form that sort of thing right away. In the midatlantic you can get a concussion falling on a steep icy groomer. Lots of snow makers and trees line almost every slope. Lots of people to avoid and collide with.

IMO, it seems that activities like skiing, biking, etc... tend to cut both ways for insurance companies since they do improve health, but also contribute to injuries. I would worry that if they really get into it they might end up restricting coverage to MTBers and skiers full stop. Further requirements about helmets are hard to enforce, hard to prove that you were wearing it, etc...
The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
January 7, 2008
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,107 posts
I bought a GIRO helmet the first year I saw them in the ski shops. It has been great, warm, lots of vents when needed, etc.
One major flaw is a lack of a strap in the back to keep the goggles attached to the helmet.
While at Seven Springs this past weekend I tried on new GIRO helmets and was amazed at some of the differences when compared to my present helmet.
1. They are much lighter.
2. Of course, most have a goggle strap.
3. Various parts can be taken out for cleaning or, in the case of the ear flaps, removed when the weather gets too hot, or to insert bluetooth or some other audio capabilities.
I think I will have to get a new helmet.
The Colonel
JohnL
January 7, 2008
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
 Quote:
or to insert bluetooth or some other audio capabilities.


To diminish the safety impact of wearing a helmet. \:\( Hope the bluetooth is not used for a cell phone; just what we need, multi-tasking on the ski slopes. The Beltway is bad enough ...
The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
January 7, 2008
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,107 posts
Actually the blue tooth would be for a cell phone, but, IMHO, only for emergency calls and to insure you can hear the phone ring, be it about a grandchild somewhere on the mountain, or the wife in the condo calling to find out when I will be back for food. Sure is easier than stopping, fumbling to get out the phone, trying to see who call with my sun tinted glasses on, then trying to return the call, and wait for the same play from the other end. Hopefully folks would not be talking while skiing or boarding! Also would allow a hook up to the walkie talkie radios that are much used by families at ski slopes today.
But, even without the above audio, the helmet seemed better made, more comfortable, etc. TIME TO UPGRADE!
The Colonel \:\)
skier219
January 8, 2008
Member since 01/8/2005 🔗
1,318 posts
Great, so if we see a skier alternately going faster and slower than the crowd, weaving in and out of their line, we can now start assuming they're talking on a cell phone through their helmet. Just like the roads!

I put headphones in my helmet to listen to my iPod, and it works well. I keep the volume very low, low enough that I can still talk to people on the lift and hear sounds on the trail (kind of like having background music in a restaurant). It's more fun to crank the tunes loud when I am skiing fast, but it's not safe and then I have to fumble for the iPod whenever people want to chat on the lift. So I settled on the super-low background music approach, and it works well.

I did determine that I can't listen to Car Talk podcasts while skiing. Those guys cracked me up so hard one time, I nearly crashed.
BushwackerinPA
January 24, 2008
Member since 12/9/2004 🔗
649 posts
if you guys have kept up with my epic postings....

allways wear a helmet, allways allways. The little cost of wearing one. Is made up in any added safety bonus there is. Its not about you, its about the other skiers on the hill. Plus warmer, more comfortable, some place to put googles when you dont want them on(they wont fog on your helmet). Just my opinion, but I think gaper untill other wise proven if your not wearing a helmet.
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