What we find maddening about local resorts!
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The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
November 17, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,107 posts
I am starting this thread not to bash local ski areas...I love and ski them all. Rather, in the spirit that they appear to read DCSki and sometimes listen to DCSkiers I am hoping that this will prove educational. This is especially true when we mention little things that could be accomplished.
PLEASE NO BASHING!
Here I go:
Snowshoe: A reliable daily update to the weather/slope page, especially important when no web cam available. For example, today at 10:30am the daily conditions page still showed yesterday's details. Those of us excited about the upcoming season want to know what happened snow-wise last night, etc.
Timberline: some of the above. The lodge and the lifts.
Canaan: the hike up the hill. How about a magic carpet or rope tow?
More later!
The Colonel \:\)
comprex
November 17, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
 Originally Posted By: The Colonel

Canaan: the hike up the hill. How about a magic carpet or rope tow?


Please, no!

- anonymous pinhead with mo' fitness than brains.
JohnL
November 17, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,516 posts
I'll second the please, no!

You're spending all day exercising and complain about having to walk up a small hill? Never understood that one, even for small children. FWIW, as a real youngun, I started out skiing having to side step up the side of the hill if I wanted to slide down.

Soft, soft. The whole world is getting soft!
Laurel Hill Crazie - DCSki Supporter
November 17, 2007
Member since 08/16/2004 🔗
1,855 posts
Laurel is closed. I find this extremely maddening.
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ubu
November 17, 2007
Member since 05/11/2005 🔗
40 posts
 Originally Posted By: The Colonel

Canaan: the hike up the hill. How about a magic carpet or rope tow?


I agree! That hill is a major pain when you have 2 young kids learning to ski and needing to hit the bathroom or warm up their hands after every few runs. Besides, say what you want about the joys of exercise, but there's nothing like being able to ski in/out of the pub for a quick pint.
ubu
November 17, 2007
Member since 05/11/2005 🔗
40 posts
Timberline: get rid of the whales!

>ducks for cover<
The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
November 17, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,107 posts
I second the whale removal from Timberline!
The Colonel \:\)
David
November 17, 2007
Member since 06/28/2004 🔗
2,444 posts
 Originally Posted By: ubu
Timberline: get rid of the whales!

>ducks for cover<



What you meant to say was this: "Some inscrutable yet reasoning thing puts forth the molding of their features. The white whale tasks me; he heaps me. Yet he is but a mask. 'Tis the thing behind the mask I chiefly hate; the malignant thing that has plagued mankind (skiers) since time began; the thing that maws and mutilates our race, not killing us outright but letting us live on, with half a heart and half a lung (and sore thighs). "

Now for my response:



SAVE THE WHALES!!!
fishnski
November 18, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
Save the whales..save the whales..save them big bad funky whales!...Cheech & Chong 19??....I have been so frusterated with the Sloooowwwww evolving of the CV areas..CV ski area Missed thier golden opportunity to fix that Mtn when they leveled the old lodge...& then put the new one right back in its place! Everything needed to be brought down a couple of hundred feet in elevation to a new & larger base area A base area that could be more centralized with 3 lifts to the top..one of them servicing new runs off to the left(as your looking up) The mtn has potential but is still a dinasaur....& TL....where is our high speed & more runs off the steep side?....Its maddening to hear excused for these resorts like "Walking is good for you" or "Thats the charm of the place" "The MRG of the south" Ect....COP OUT I say! Get your friggin act together..its almost 2008 for skiers sake!
comprex
November 18, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
 Originally Posted By: David

What you meant to say was this: "Some inscrutable yet reasoning thing puts forth the molding of their features. The white whale tasks me; he heaps me. Yet he is but a mask. 'Tis the thing behind the mask I chiefly hate; the malignant thing that has plagued mankind (skiers) since time began; the thing that maws and mutilates our race, not killing us outright but letting us live on, with half a heart and half a lung (and sore thighs). "


 Originally Posted By: Doperman Skiville
The fact is, that among his skiers at least, the whale would by all hands be considered a noble turn, were there not so much of him; but when you come to pole plant before a mogul nearly one hundred feet long, it takes away your enthusiasm. Only the most unprejudiced of men like David, nowadays partake of skied whales; but the experts are not so fastidious. We all know how they live upon whales, and have rare old vintages of prime groomed granular. And this reminds me that certain Englishmen, who long ago were accidentally left in ski country by a whaling vessel - that these men actually lived for several months on the melting scraps of whales which had been left on the hill after grooming out the powder. Among the Dutch whalemen these scraps are called "brown sugar" which, indeed, they greatly resemble, being addictive and crisp, and feeling something like old Amsterdam dealers' horse or smack, when skied fresh. They have such an skiable look that the most self-denying stranger can hardly keep his edges off.
But what further depreciates the whale as a civilized turn, is his exceeding richness. He is the great prize ox of the ski hill, too powdery to be delicately good. Look at his hump, which would be as fine skiing as the mogul's (which is esteemed a rare turn), were it not such a solid pyramid of powder. But the spermaceti itself, how bland and creamy that is; like the transparent, half-jellied, white meat of a cocoanut in the third month of its growth, yet far too powdery to supply a substitute for granular. Nevertheless, many whalemen have a method of absorbing it into some other substance, and then partaking of it. In the long try watches of the night it is a common thing for the groomers to dip their tiller-plows into the huge pow-pods and let them churn there awhile. Many a good run have I thus made.
skier219
November 18, 2007
Member since 01/8/2005 🔗
1,318 posts
I also looked at that uphill hike with a "huh?" the first time I skied CV last year. It wasn't so bad after all, but I found it a little annoying that I was burning some energy before I even got to my first run! (especially since I had already carried my gear up from the parking lot to the lodge). I hate tromping around once I have my boots on, since it can only degrade the boot fit. And it could potentially end up causing a hot/sweaty reaction right before you get on a cold chair lift up the hill, which is not good. Call me a sissy, but I try to take all that stuff into account -- I like to be primped and preened at 100% before I hit the hill and destroy myself on skis!

Of course, that was the powder day when I got one of the first chairs and then did not stop skiing until about 4pm. So the uphill hike ended up being a pretty minor thing. I would not have wanted to do it over and over though. A Magic Carpet would really be a good idea.
comprex
November 18, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
 Originally Posted By: skier219
I hate tromping around once I have my boots on, since it can only degrade the boot fit.


Warm-up.

Some time ago now I was skiing (read: madly trying to keep up with) some bumpers in Tahoe. Tanked up on eggs, bacon, guacamole, coffee, beer in the back of the truck for later, we're off to Heavenly. Imagine my surprise (they're all season pass holders) when they insisted on parking half a mile away.

It was to bed in the boots by walking so they could re-buckle them tighter at the lift.
Roger Z
November 18, 2007
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
I was never a big fan of the obnoxious subdivisions creeping up the sides of the mountains, taking up prime skiing terrain. I know the economics of the matter, I still hate it. You go to ski to be somewhere pristine, not make turns through a suburb. This was a particular nuisance at Wisp, Seven Springs, Massanutten, and Timberline. Looks like it would be true at Hidden Valley, Sugar Mountain and Beech as well.

Conversely, one thing I liked about Snowshoe is that the Village didn't protrude as much into the skiing experience. After your first couple turns down Shays or Cupp or even the Basin, the homes are gone and it's just you and the trail and the woods. Other places that were good for having the "getting away from it all" look were CV, BK, Laurel... and Whitetail.

Oh, which brings up another gripe I always had: if only they had built Whitetail facing northeast instead of southeast, and 1000 feet higher. Not much anyone can do about those things, though.
comprex
November 18, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
 Originally Posted By: Roger Z
I was never a big fan of the obnoxious subdivisions creeping up the sides of the mountains, taking up prime skiing terrain. I know the economics of the matter, I still hate it. You go to ski to be somewhere pristine, not make turns through a suburb. This was a particular nuisance at Wisp, Seven Springs, Massanutten, and Timberline. Looks like it would be true at Hidden Valley, Sugar Mountain and Beech as well.


Heh. Wanna see shameless? Spruce Mountain @ Stowe.

 Quote:

Conversely, one thing I liked about Snowshoe is that the Village didn't protrude as much into the skiing experience. After your first couple turns down Shays or Cupp


And there's the rub. I mean who wants to click in, glide a bit, then unclip to kecking walk across a road in ski boots? How about a magic carpet -overpass-.

 Quote:

Oh, which brings up another gripe I always had: if only they had built Whitetail facing northeast instead of southeast,


If only they had cut trail on the other face of Whitetail.

If only Snowtime would give Advantage holders a separate ticket line.

If only Whitetail or Liberty still had NASTAR.

If only Chip Chase was running Laurel Mountain.
JohnL
November 18, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,516 posts
Timberline:
1) Faster lift or at least feed the chipmunk that powers the current lifts some Red Bull.
2) More seats/dining area in the lodge.
3) Save the whales! Just do a good job shaping them.

Wisp:
1) Take four tons of fertilizer and one quarter of the water in Deep Creek Lake and grow the hill 200 feet taller.

Whitetail:
1) Have they yet installed that proposed surface lift in the terrain park?
2) Lift-ticket only (no lessons) ticket lines.

Blue Knob:
1) Make snow on Extrovert at least one month earlier in the season. It should be open in mid-January at the latest.
2) Clear some of the debris in the "glades" and possible try to reseed some of the more open areas.

Laurel:
1) Get some rich investor liquored up and place a business sheet in from of him/her.
2) The Chip Chase idea is also a great one.

Seven Springs:
1) Stop cutting down trees.
2) Grow more trees in between the slopes.

Snowshoe:
1) Cut some more real trails to absorb the crowds added by the real estate development.
2) Allow skiing in the trees.
The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
November 18, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,107 posts
John,
Right on as usual.
A couple more:

Snowshoe:
1. Go ahead and extend the Soaring Eagle HS Quad over the road and down the old Hawthorne trail system. Add awesome snowmaking on the new Hawthorne slope system.
2. Good idea, comprex. But rather than an overhead crossover, add a fairly inexpensive tunnel under the road between the basin side and the northwest terrority (like the road tunnels at Timberline).
3. Offer an option for a non-skiing spouse for other activities at the resort, just like Seven Springs does. This way you get the discount lodging rate without paying for a useless lift ticket.
4. Groom the slopes when the temps are a little higher than you have done in the past. Other resorts do it without destroying the base!

Wisp:
1. Open Mainstreet earlier.
2. Are you kidding me, $8 for basket check???!!!

Seven Springs:
1. The hike from Tahoe lodge over to/fromt the new six pack lift must be eliminated.

Canaan Valley:
1. Better trail grooming. Too much ice on faces.
2. Make sure the Lodge offers the Ski Two Areas lift pass with rooms. Running the bus also to Timberline would be nice, but probably too much to ask.

All:
1. If you do not already provide it, then add convenient base area ski and basket check.

SkiDC:
1. Scott, add spell check. And thanks for all you do!!!!!!

More later.
The Colonel \:\)
JohnL
November 18, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,516 posts
 Quote:
$8 for basket check???!!!


Dang! Where's that Miller High Life price check guy when you need him? No High Life served at DCL ever again...
Denis - DCSki Supporter
November 18, 2007
Member since 07/12/2004 🔗
2,217 posts
 Originally Posted By: The Colonel

Canaan: the hike up the hill.


I have skated up that hill. Of course it almost killed me and I did it just to impress the tourists. \:\) \:D
GGNagy
November 19, 2007
Member since 01/5/2006 🔗
450 posts
Laurel: That it is closed.

Whitetail: all that unused space between the "green" and "blue" mountains. How about a trail or two for the all-slope resort.

Seven Springs: Great Western! include some more old school trails in the stle of Yodler.

Wisp:warming hut somewhere on North Camp. Just put it somewhere that you don't have to trudge over to the main lodge or make like a bear.

General: Someone on nelsap mentioned the old school experience of real surface lifts like rope tows, pomas and t-bars. Outside of the Liberty boarder park and Braddock Skiway, the J's/T's are pretty much gone from the Mid Atlantic.
Crush
November 19, 2007
Member since 03/21/2004 🔗
1,010 posts
 Originally Posted By: The Colonel
...... SkiDC:
1. Scott, add spell check. And thanks for all you do!!!!!!

More later.
The Colonel \:\)




heh .... nope u need to switch to mozilla firefox , eh? it *has* spellcheck built in.
tromano
November 19, 2007
Member since 12/19/2002 🔗
998 posts
JohnL is on point with his list.
 Originally Posted By: JohnL
Timberline:
1) Faster lift or at least feed the chipmunk that powers the current lifts some Red Bull. Some of the slowest crappiest lifts I have ever been on are at tline. Beaver Mtn probably has worse though. ;\)
3) Save the whales! Just do a good job shaping them. The whales take a run that is basically the same as 3 runs at white tail and make it truly unique. Save them.

Whitetail:
1) Have they yet installed that proposed surface lift in the terrain park? Weren't they palnning to do that like 4 years ago?

Blue Knob:
1) Make snow on Extrovert at least one month earlier in the season. It should be open in mid-January at the latest. If it were open in mid January that would be something.
2) Clear some of the debris in the "glades" and possible try to reseed some of the more open areas.Other areas have glades that are ski able with with just 8" of snow BK not so much.

Seven Springs:
1) Stop cutting down trees. Even when they get fresh it just gets blown off. \:\(
2) Grow more trees in between the slopes.


therusty
November 19, 2007
Member since 01/17/2005 🔗
422 posts
 Originally Posted By: JohnL
Timberline:
Whitetail:
1) Have they yet installed that proposed surface lift in the terrain park?
2) Lift-ticket only (no lessons) ticket lines.

No. But the idea was to reuse the old handle tow lift from the beginner area. One would think this would be simple enough (just get a longer cable and put it along the straight section of lower Angel Drop). Alas, nothing is ever that simple. One big expense this year was a new groomer. Would you rather have the surface lift or better grooming? It's easy to see how those kinds of decisions get made.

BTW - this was the plan when they replaced the beginner handle tow with the magic carpet in 2004. So this wish list item has missed the budget cut for 3 seasons now.
comprex
November 19, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
 Originally Posted By: therusty

No. But the idea was to reuse the old handle tow lift from the beginner area. One would think this would be simple enough (just get a longer cable and put it along the straight section of lower Angel Drop). Alas, nothing is ever that simple. One big expense this year was a new groomer. Would you rather have the surface lift or better grooming?


Neither. I want access to Exhibition without riding the front quad. Run the handle tow up the right hand side to the bottom of the expert lift.
therusty
November 19, 2007
Member since 01/17/2005 🔗
422 posts
 Originally Posted By: GGNagy
Whitetail: all that unused space between the "green" and "blue" mountains. How about a trail or two for the all-slope resort.


The original master plan had the bowl between SnowPark and Fanciful filled with 2 more lifts and maybe a dozen more trails. It was a nice dream. Unfortunately that kind of expansion would require simultaneous expansion of snowmaking, lodge space, parking et. al. Considering that Snow Time does not own the real estate where the current housing is, but has the access rights to extend the road up to the bowl terrain that they do own, let's see how many geniuses it takes to figure out what Snowtime plans to do: more trails or more housing? Well folks you don't have to guess. The plans have already been announced and the permits for the new trail are already approved! It will run from the top of SnowPark to the bottom of Fanciful ............... and it will provide ski in, ski out access to up to 400 new housing units. That probably means a death knell to the original master plan, but it would have taken a major ice age to have made that feasible anyway.
comprex
November 19, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
 Originally Posted By: therusty
and it will provide ski in, ski out access to up to 400 new housing units.
\:o


 Quote:

That probably means a death knell...
therusty
November 19, 2007
Member since 01/17/2005 🔗
422 posts
 Originally Posted By: comprex
 Originally Posted By: therusty

No. But the idea was to reuse the old handle tow lift from the beginner area. One would think this would be simple enough (just get a longer cable and put it along the straight section of lower Angel Drop). Alas, nothing is ever that simple. One big expense this year was a new groomer. Would you rather have the surface lift or better grooming?


Neither. I want access to Exhibition without riding the front quad. Run the handle tow up the right hand side to the bottom of the expert lift.


That is an interesting idea. However, I suspect that it would take longer to ride a handle tow from the base to K lift than it would to ride the high speed and ski down to it. I also suspect that path would be way too hard to put it in with a line of sight from top to bottom (the preference is to have surface tow operators monitor the entire lift). Putting a handle tow in the terrain park would relieve a lot more of the maniac crowding on the upper Angel drop trail and probably relieve more traffic off the high speed than running it from the base to K lift. Especially since there is a desire to also move the 1/2 pipe over to the terrain park. Just my 2 cents. No telling why, if or when these things will happen.
tromano
November 19, 2007
Member since 12/19/2002 🔗
998 posts
No more trails. It usually takes WT quite a while to open up fully anyway and the far skiers right blue of the high speed is usually only open for about a month anyway.
bousquet19 - DCSki Supporter
November 20, 2007
Member since 02/23/2006 🔗
699 posts
Massanutten: Any chance of filling in the gaps in that unusual layout, esp. b/w the "blue" and "black" areas? Nice separation of ski runs by ability level!

Wintergreen: Thanks for the York snowmaking system and setting aside more than 50% of the 11K acres as truly wild space. How about some glades, and another novice run to pull traffic off of Dobie? Great nature programs.

Wisp: Count me as another vote for a warming house or some sort of refuge at the base of North Camp. You get more out of a 700-foot vertical than I thought was possible.

Blue Knob: Another vote for brushing out the glades (but thanks for having them!) Did you ever think of painting the lodge? It's pretty bleak when you arrive on top.

Whitetail: How about some variety in the trail widths; those blues and blacks look a lot like each other. Nice base lodge.

Snowshoe: Takes mid-Atlantic skiing to another level. Ditch the "forever wild" sign near the entrance; with that city on top, it's not. How about some naturalist-led walks (a la Wintergreen)?

Canaan: An unusual trail layout that works! But do you think that uphill walk is fun in ski boots?

Timberline: Great variety of TTB runs that take advantage of the full 1000-foot vertical. Now if I could only find a place to sit in the base lodge.

-- Woody
liketoskidad
November 20, 2007
Member since 10/19/2007 🔗
18 posts
7 Springs - Each year they seem to cut more trees down. Pretty soon both sides of the hill will be just one large slope. Does anyone know if they are still going to have the bathrooms at the bottom of Gunner?

Blue Knob - Wins the prize for the worst web site. Get a groomer that can do something with the boilerplate ice on Extrovert by mid season and also a grommer that won't leave chunks of ice as big as your head in the middle of Stembogan.

Hidden Valley - Get a decent on line trail status report where you can actually see the status of the trail as well as a map of the slopes (with names) at the same time. Hopefully the other 100 items are being worked on by the new owners.
JohnL
November 20, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,516 posts
 Quote:
Get a groomer that can do something with the boilerplate ice on Extrovert by mid season


Denis can confirm this. I believe that Extrovert is steep enough that it can only be groomed via a winch grooming (cable attached to a fixed object such as a tree.) This is obviously very time-consuming and expensive.
Roger Z
November 20, 2007
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
Well, I guess that adds WT to my list of places that have overbuilt the subdivisions. I'll bet a decent percentage of homeowners there will simply commute to their jobs, particularly if their jobs are in Frederick, G-town, G-burg, Rockville.
JohnL
November 20, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,516 posts
 Quote:
Would you rather have the surface lift or better grooming?


No brainer. Surface lift. Lessen the crowds on Upper Angel Drop and at the quad.
Denis - DCSki Supporter
November 20, 2007
Member since 07/12/2004 🔗
2,217 posts
 Originally Posted By: JohnL
 Quote:
Get a groomer that can do something with the boilerplate ice on Extrovert by mid season


Denis can confirm this. I believe that Extrovert is steep enough that it can only be groomed via a winch grooming (cable attached to a fixed object such as a tree.) This is obviously very time-consuming and expensive.


I have been told that and I've never seen a groomer on it. There is also never any change in the location or size of the bumps which suggests that they just blow snow and let the bumps form wherever the skiers form them and leave it alone for the rest of the season. This is exactly what they should do in my opinion and the reason why Extrovert is so great. I also really like the efficiency of the double chair with midstation so you can ski Extrovert over and over with minimal wasted run in or run out. IMHO Extrovert on a warm spring day is THE reason why Blue Knob is great. If they get dry powder in mid winter the narrow trails like shortway, Edgeset, & some of the woods are also unique for the Mid A area but Extrovert is special. I really should go to Elk and Denton sometime to see if they have anything comparable. OTOH if I thought they did I would have been there by now.
comprex
November 21, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
All of the above are completely wrong ^BTW^.


The one, yea, one, completely maddening thing about local resorts is that Timberline or CV still do NOT run a bus from a local ski shop, early Saturday am.

Would work for any resort more'n'2 hours away. Yes, I know about the Whitetail bus last year. I esteem half-measures not.

The BUS RIDE SEASON PASS. Damme if I wouldna buy it, prolly to the first resort over 2hrs away that offers. Keck, how's that for REALLY putting Laurel on the map?
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