Some fun this weekend?
April 25, 2007
94 posts
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If the majority of the models are correct (although they should NOT be taken verbatim at this point) this coming saturday-monday there could be one of the strongest and largest noreasters in a long time and maybe one of the largest ever in april. An extremely strong system is projected to form off the east coast and track north east then stall out off the NJ coast (mayby even then track south east for a bit). The GFS model puts the minimum pressure of this system at 969 mb which is extremely low, meaning that it will be accompanied by strong winds, heavy precipitation, high seas, and strong cold air advection, meaning much lower than normal temperatures for the duration of the event. Although it is a long ways out, we definitely need to keep an eye on this thing because if it pans out parts of the northeast could see 3 ft+ of snow with blizzard conditions. Even the DC area could get in on some of the action and change to snow for a little while. If this happens i would not be surprised is the valley saw 2 ft+ (would put canaan over 200 inches for the season). I will keep posting as the event nears!!
12Z GFS:
60 hr Precipitation:
12Z GFS surface pressure and precip sunday mid day:
12Z GFS surface pressure and 6 hr precip sunday night
I can't believe we are still talking snow storms this late in the game! NE is going out like the Abominable Snow lion! It is not unheard of to get a 20 to 30 inch dump at canaan during late April...I got 1st predict on a 30 inch Dump on the Canaan snow total Thread....but I was just joking around......But then again I was only BSing when I 1st moved to Raleigh,nc & told everybody that I was the Snow God that moved South & that i was going to slam them with a record Blizzard...& Damb if they didn't get one! 24 inches in 24 hours...i'll never forget it!
dude, if the valley actually does get a dumpage of 20"+ you better believe ill be doing my "oncall" work duties this weekend from the highlands. i hate to be a pooper, but id be extremely suprised if the valley got any snow at all this weekend. altho, Ill leave the consensus in the hands of the new DCski weatherman.. mr fishnski!
Langleyskier is the one posting the graphics & still watching the models...I've deleted all my winter weather stuff from my favs on my computer & added all my Fish watching stuff.(where can I find DCFISH?) Langleyskier, you've got the Addiction worse than me...keep on posting! I've seen higher pressure in a Hurricane than the pressure on the model F-cast! Could be a DOOUZZY... Oh & Crunchy we ain't talkin this weekend..maybe late sun but its the 1st of the week to watch...
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Langleyskier, you've got the Addiction worse than me
yep ive got it bad!!
Crunchy- it is NOT likely that this storm will be as strong as projected but it is extremely rare for a storm of this magnitude (like fishandski said-- many hurricanes do not reach a pressure as low as this storm is projected to reach!) to have the consensus of practically EVERY forecasting model-- it really has dumbfounded many meteorologists that we are still 5 days out and every model agrees on a huge storm for the east coast! However, like i said, models are very often wrong and it is not likely that this storm will be as sever as forecasted. Most likely, it will not be the snows that this storm is remembered for (many areas may pick up feet of snow but more likely then not it will not be the major population centers), the major threat to the big cities will be the intense rain and wind. Places on the east coast could easily see major flooding along with hurricane force winds.
here is the updated precipitation forecast as of 18Z tonight:
and the 12Z snowfall forecast:
and the 18Z forecast for snowfall:
I have been watching the GFS, which has been somewhat goofy on this one. But based on its past performance this season, I would not be surprised if it pans out, especially now that the other models are converging. The WV mountains could in fact get 8-16" of heavy wet snow over the weekend. Before we celebrate and get the ski gear ready, it's important to consider that this much heavy wet snow, coupled with the rain and winds also expected, could wreak havoc with downed trees and powerlines, and flooding.
Inland areas of PA through southern New England through VT will likely get hit with a crap-ton of snow, but it's going to alternate with rain and sleet, and they have the same wind/flood issues to contend with. Along the coast and partways inland, it will be an all-rain event.
Definitely keep an eye on this, it could shut down the whole east coast!
One of the best guys to watch is Henry Margusty on Accuweather. His blog is here:
http://wwwa.accuweather.com/news-blogs.asp?partner=accuweather&blog=meteomadnessWatch his videos if you get a chance. He does a great job mixing technical details with plain talk.
west VA alps get nailed according to tonight's GFS.
would be 2ft + of mid april heavy wet snow. would whitegrass consider opening for a day or two if this pans out? if this stuff was groomed it could make for extraordinary mid april skiing!
Just informed the wife I may not be around on Sun or Monday. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
we can get Noreasters all winter long but if they are Zooming along its no big deal..nice snow storm but nothing to get too excited about. The BIG Dumps come from the Cutoff lows...or the neaster that just stalls & spins.They are talkin the storm stalling over Jersey or Philly...if it sits in a good spot we could see an Epic Dump..& I wouldn't be surprised if the Snow wasn't all that wet...say above 3500'. It could Dump at Keyser,wv & just be a couple of inches in the valley...you all know how that goes! Bayard,wv just north & east of Canaan Had one of these type dumps a while back...I think they got around 30 inches maybe more, its been awhile since i read that Stat....Stay Tuned!
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we can get Noreasters all winter long but if they are Zooming along its no big deal..nice snow storm but nothing to get too excited about. The BIG Dumps come from the Cutoff lows...or the neaster that just stalls & spins.They are talkin the storm stalling over Jersey or Philly...if it sits in a good spot we could see an Epic Dump..& I wouldn't be surprised if the Snow wasn't all that wet...say above 3500'. It could Dump at Keyser,wv & just be a couple of inches in the valley...you all know how that goes! Bayard,wv just north & east of Canaan Had one of these type dumps a while back...I think they got around 30 inches maybe more, its been awhile since i read that Stat....Stay Tuned!
goddamn i love our resident Canaan point-forecast man! Keep it comin' brosef!
I am seeing 18-20" predicted for the WV mountains now!! This is insane. I hope WG does reopen (Chip is supposed to be back from skiing in Canada today). Heck, TL/CV/SS could reopen with that much snow (assuming the chair lifts could run). If they ran a groomer down a couple trails to compact the heavy wet snow, we could ski it for another week!!
I was deciding whether there was going to be enough snow left at TL to skin/ski there over the weekend, but it looks like the smart plan is to wait and go early next week after the Nor'easter leaves town. I bet it would be a bitch to break trail in heavy wet snow though...
Come on Crunchy..U is embarrasing me
..I Quit!..Ok, Bayard recieved 35 inches on April 28?!!! Wish I new what the valley got in that storm....& CK this out..Bayard recieved 42.5 inches on Jan 7th 1996 with the pressure at 983 millibars!....U better watch out Cap'n Crunchy, I heard there was a cerial killer loose
...WORD...If you all see those North to south snow bands setting up..its on! those bands will slam into Canaans 4000' to 4500' tops & with no big mtns in the way..its all Canaans! Blizzard party at TGD's!! Kwills too..House hoppin party! jimmi's got the keg!
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!....U better watch out Cap'n Crunchy, I heard there was a cerial killer loose ...WORD...
BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA, now that wuz funny . Where we gonna meet?
ill supply the keg or a few cases of microbrews
the REAL pressing question is.. does anyone happen to have a pair of trekkers I can borrow? everywhere ive called is sold out of em.
One little problem: last few models have been trending somewhat east, meaning the low would stall out 100 miles off the NJ coast instead of 30 miles off the coast. You might say 70 miles... no big deal but the consequence would be that DC could get some of the white stuff (hard for it to accumulate so late in the season) but that the center of the precip would stay away from the mid and southern apps. I am in state college, pa and here the difference would be a few inches from a low 100 miles off the coast or 2 feet from a low close to the coast. Hopefully the east trend reverses and either way the valley will probably see a good snow (just not in the feet if it is too far off the coast or too far north). Ill post later tonight after the 18Z and 0Z models when we will have a better picture on this storm. But either way it does look like inland NY will be the sweet spot (or if it close to the coast it will extend into my neck of the woods
and down into the WV apps) so skiing up north could be unreal for next week.
Looks like everything is on track for the storm! Right now it seems the biggest snowfall accumulations will be from possible parts of western VA (altitude will be a major factor on accumulations!) through the eastern laurel highlands, higher areas of central PA, northern PA, and central NY. As far as rain, the DC area and the Boston area looks to be the hardest hit. DC could recieve anywhere from 1.5 to 5 inches of precipitation from this storm with rainfall rates approaching an inch per hour in heavier bands on saturday night. Right now it looks that, aside from a flake or two of wraparound after the low has moved north, it will be 100% rain for every major city on the east coast. Wind will be the other major factor, with gusts up to 40 mph in the DC area very possible and approaching hurricane force on the coast. Overall, everybody should be ready for some nasty weather, including flash floods and strong winds saturday night. As for the WV alps, there exists a good possibility for some heavy snow, maybe mixing with some rain, but accumulations should range from 4 inches to over a foot.
Also, seems if whitegrass is updating again and reports that there is still snow left over from last weekend near the snowfences and north-facign slopes. Should be some great late season skiing of all goes well!
The latest info I saw supports your post from last night -- less snow for WV (4-8") and more (much more!) for central-northern New England. 20"+ for upstate New York. But it all depends on the track of the storm as it heads to the Atlantic. If it crosses low, through the Carolinas, we'll probably see more snow in WV (that was the modeled track a few days ago). If it crosses higher, over VA, then less snow for WV. As you noted, the other key factor will be where it stalls and for how long. This is going to be interesting to watch!
upslope upslope.. what about the upslope effect?
Worth the twelve hour drive to watch it from Rutland Vermont?
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Worth the twelve hour drive to watch it from Rutland Vermont?
ha! if I was in vermont this weekend, the only thing id be watching is the powder accumulating on my goggles from continuous face shots!
Vermont may be ok but it may be true that parts of NH and eastern vermont get less snow. NY will be the sweet spot.
Yeah mnt washington will get pounded, probably heave snows and really extreme winds. Tucks should be great whenever it all compacts and avalanche danger decreases.
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Worth the twelve hour drive to watch it from Rutland Vermont?
I think it would have been great to be up there this past week, especially today. I am actually a little apprehensive about traveling this weekend because of the N'easter -- with my luck, I would get trapped up there with no power, high winds, flooding, etc. However, heading up early next week after the storm might be a great bet if the snow totals are good and the lifts are still spinning!! I keep thinking I will get desperate enough to do it... My old mistress Sugarbush South beckons with 100% trails open and 18-58" base. Amazing for mid April.
With all my travels this winter I have been averaging 10 1/2 to Rutland.
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With all my travels this winter I have been averaging 10 1/2 to Rutland.
Ullr,
Sounds like you need to press on the gas a little more or stop a little less. In March, I made it to Burlington, VT in less than 9 1/2 hrs and home from Okemo in January in about 8hrs.
Mt. Snow can be made in 7 1/2 hrs. Well worth the trip.
VT & NY are closer than you think. I've left NoVA at 4am Saturday to ski Hunter Mtn. and then drove to Mt. Snow to ski powder on Sunday. Was home in bed in NoVa by 12:30am Sunday night.
Yeah, but Ullr is in Richmond -- add at least 1-1.5 hours penalty for that. And I get hit for another hour on top of that
You gotta go upslope before you go downslope...Its Elementary my dear Crunchy
....Thats really all I'm seeing for WV is the backside stuff...with yes,good upslope conditions!... ButtTT,If,when & where & for how long this stall takes place is one of the main Keys to this puzzle... big Storms can carry big tricks...stay tuned!...Too bad this Storm didn't come a month ago..the Alpps would have been Clobbered, & still be in season..Sighhhh....
So what's new? This thing going to happen or not??
WELLLl...so nice of you to ask..SnowSnapper! The Temp has dropped 4 degrees in the last hour & I bet it has begun to snow up on MPC. NH is in the Jackspot with the 2 foot dump...Bretton woods last day is today so Wildcat will be the spot! Northern VT will be playing catchup with the temps slow to drop, But they will catch up fast. Everybody including the NC Mtns will get into the backside action. It is getting ready to snow for the next 40 hours up at canaan..where is the mash? I wish I could have predicted a couple of months ago during some of his rants that there would be snow on the ground as late as april 18th!...I Hope the bugger is doing well though..throw us a shout Mr. Mash!
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So what's new? This thing going to happen or not??
I have a full tank of gas and my skis are waxed...
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I have a full tank of gas and my skis are waxed...
I wish this snow event was starting on late Thursday or Friday so I too could go out and enjoy it....I hate school!!!
well since my morning work window turned into an all day event for the most part, (like they often do in the IT biz..grrr) I have a comp day to take this week, combined with a rare sickday
, im up for some runs! maybe even whitegrass?
To heck with that, Vermont still has mid-winter conditions! Okemo just extended their seaon another week. Too bad visits are down, cause it is a shame to end the season with snow reports that still read pdr/pp!!!
yeah ive been seriously mulling over a scenario to go to VT, but I only have 2 days i can escape from work for it this week, so it would be a suicide solo road-trip.. maybe not with some recruits....
I am keeping an eye on it myself -- it really depends on how the rain/snow mix works out and who gets what. Also depends on when it stops snowing/raining, because I am fairly certain we don't want to be skiing while the precipitation and wind is still active. In fact, the day after everything ends might be good, but in typical east coast fashion that day might still be windy (thus putting lifts on wind hold). If the snow truly is wet and heavy and deep, there might even be downtime for cleanup work. And of course they will need to groom -- skiing in more than 6" of heavy/wet ungroomed snow is not a real treat. So I think there are a LOT of unknowns at this point, but the better weather and skiing will certainly be mid to late week. The weather at Sugarbush VT looks great for spring skiing over the weekend. If it really looks reasonable, I would consider driving to VT or hitting Whitegrass/TL/CV for some turns.
BTW, the storm's low pressure center hit the Atlantic near the VA-NC line around 8:30PM. I think this is where it will start getting real interesting.
From Jay Peak's 9:30pm update. "10-12"on the ground and heavy snow should continue through the night."
does anyone have a current report from canaan? i noticed via the dolly sods cam that they went below freezing as of 7 pm so i am assuming the precip is now in the form of snow. i still would have to guess they will pick up 6 inches or so. only problem will be the high winds tomorrow, which should be gusting 50+ mph.
I just took a look at the latest model outputs and it looks like the low is strengthening much faster and becoming a much stronger system then expected. Models are now projecting a minimum pressure of 970 mb but if i had to guess i would say it will peak at around 965 mb. This will mean for an extremely windy and chilly day for us all tomorrow and hopefully for some good wrap around/upslope for the mnts.
It looks like it has an eye like a hurricane...Its a biggie! CV only picked up an inch with a couple higher up, but its Dumping now..if the storm stalls right now like they hinted it could get interesting. fun to watch!
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I have a full tank of gas and my skis are waxed...
I wish this snow event was starting on late Thursday or Friday so I too could go out and enjoy it....I hate school!!!
I got a free day off from work! Frioggan knocked the power out at the office - kinda hard to work as a software engineer with no power, thus no computer! Would've love to throw the skis in the trunk and head up north!
Unfortunately, that wind is friggan brutal here in Fredericksburg right now - a wind warning is in effect with 30 mph sustained with up to 60 mph gusts! This is just about like Isabel over again! I can't imagine what it must be like farther north going into the core of the storm itself! I'd be reluctant to want to drive anywhere outside of the local area in these conditions.
Now, if anybody wants to consider a trip up north to New England this weekend, I maybe game to join!
On my way to class this morning I was sitting at a stoplight and a SUV pulled up and it was COVERED in about an inch of snow. Mind you, we haven't seen as much as even a dusting here in our area, I was kind of perplexed. The only justification that I could come up with is that they must commute from somewhere in the mountains on I-68 out towards Wisp, which really only start about 20 miles from here in Fairmont, WV. I just checked the radar and looks like there maybe some action going on around the Wisp area. The webcams are also showing some some action and even light accumulation:
http://www.skiwisp.com/winter_webcams.htm
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I just checked the radar and looks like there maybe some action going on around the Wisp area. The webcams are also showing some some action and even light accumulation:
http://www.skiwisp.com/winter_webcams.htm
I noticed that myself! Looks like that far western end of the Maryland panhandle is getting hammered by some snow, with Wisp right square in the middle of it! To bad no convincing them to re-open at Wisp for this weekend!
As an aside, it actually snowed a bit here in Fredericksburg last night! Granted, it was just heavy flurries that did not really amount to much, but still - friggan snowing in Fredericksburg, in the middle of April! It is not unheard of, but it is a pretty rare occasion. Usually, snow is pretty much done around here after the beginning of spring.
I was watchin the news last night and they kept mentioning snow on the allegany front, which they usually dont talk about in the dc area news
Sods cam also looks like its nuking up in the highlands right now.
A firsthand report from the Bush says 8-10" overnight, followed by steady rains all morning
. Several lifts are on wind hold. But maybe this is just the firm base material before the good snow arrives...
I do see some wrap-around snows hitting WV, but nothing steady. Interior/upstate NY is getting a lot of snow at the moment.
If you see the snow on the radar in Garret co, Md ,you can bet that its snowing even harder in Tucker co,WV...The higher MTNs & the proximity to the Radar Stations block the radar returns. Now if you see it filling in even at the CV area its dumping at least an inch an hour. CV has been averaging a half inch an hour since early this morn.Getting close to 4 for the event so far..no dump, just steady.I think that the storm set up about a 100 miles to the east of where it would need to be for the Valley to be getting a good Dump on. Remember the North/south Bands i talked about? well they are about that far to the east of CV right now. Could get some good impulses still though...boost up the yearly total for braggin rights!...This is only my opinion & please correct me(anyone) if you feel that i am Way off on anything.If no one corrects anyone they could go thru life thinking they were right all the time..& that could prove very wrong!....But since I ain't wrong..Go ahead Smarty pants..make my day
Been watching a good snow band set up since about 6 this eve. You could see the radar fill into CV & it has snowed nearly an inch an hour since! NWS even posted a Winterstorm Warning at 745 pm for 6 to 10 inches..Big storms have tricks! Even before this evenings band set up I figured that the Dolly Sods looked like they could have picked up a good amount today & Last nite..& now I bet tommorow morn there will be over a foot up there. There could be close to a foot anywhere else above 3500'. The Alpps just cannot stand being left out of the Snow loop...they find a way to get into the action. The last we heard from Denis was to follow his tracks....You out there?
It would be sweet if there were some skiable new snow in CV. The more reports I get from VT, the worse it sounds for the short term (power outages, wind holds, gloppy snow). I think it will take a couple days before VT settles out and they can groom in the cement. The conditions have gotten worse since the storm rolled through, not better; I think last weekend and last week was the time to hit VT!
im bummin tho, cause it looks like today (now) is the time to be there with the temps rising like they are, and I cant go till tommorrow
rain and a high of 48 today will clean the slate I would imagine. I had a dream i went up there and didnt ski too
193 inches for the year now! We need to figure out how to shift this weather around. we could have used this aprils weather in dec when the slopes were open.At 10 last nite Chip & crew Measured a 10 inch snow cover at the 4000' stake. It snowed all nite & Canaan Hgts CKed in this morn with only 10 inches for the previous 24 hours. The obs man mentioned How wet it was..8 to 1 ratio. I don't think you had to go very much higher though judging by the 4000' stake to see a lot more lighter & deeper stuff. I bet the Sods & some higher terrain in the area got maybe 14 inches....foot & a half at 4770' MPC
...Man, it is time to go fishing/melted snow Boarding...build that jones up for next year!
This is the closest ski area to NoVa that has lift serviced skiing. They've received 18" of snow and it is still snowing. It's probably a 5 1/2 hr drive from NoVa. It's near Hunter Mtn..
Belleayre Ski Area
Man,you know the Valley makes its own weather! 48 for high? maybe 38 at the valley floor..36 at 3700'..& 32 freezing degrees at 4770
Come on Ole man winter..save somthing for next year...Surfs up!....wait a minute..only 7 more inches for a 200" total
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This is the closest ski area to NoVa that has lift serviced skiing. They've received 18" of snow and it is still snowing. It's probably a 5 1/2 hr drive from NoVa. It's near Hunter Mtn..
Belleayre Ski Area
Tempting.... oh so tempting...!
Want some real fun this weekend? Fly out to manchester,NH Rent a car & drive up to N Conway..stay at the holiday inn(only cuz thats where I stayed) Wake up & head up to Wildcat where they have recieved 37 inches from the 3 day NEaster & 72 for April! While your skiing down the 2000'+ Vert CK out The Views of Mt Washington & Tuckermans Ravine(Feeling Bold?)..Wimp out on Tucks & head over to jay peak the next day...Don't even ask about the snow there...its there Like no other place. Next day head over to Stowe Vermont where they still have a base of 43 to 52 inches...on thier natural trails! Head back to Manchester airport Sore as hell & making plans to kick back at your Fav Beach with the Sand between your Toes & your Fav Beverage in your hands!....PS Side note..There were some areas near Gore Mt that recieved in the 30 to 40 inch range from the storm But I can't find any info of how much the ski area got..I know they are open this weekend.
The message from Stowe about extending the season says it all:
"That's right, we're extending the season. Stowe has received 25 feet of snow since mid-January, including about 6 feet so far in April. Mt. Mansfield is absolutely blanketed in winter white. With yet another major winter storm in the forecast for Sunday & Monday, it's only going to get even better (if that's possible)! So, we're extending the season until Sunday, April 29th. Come join us!"
anyone ever ski in Argentina or Chile? their season is june-october. imagine the looks you would get checking ski's at the airport in august
skibum: keep me posted if you decide to head up to belleayre this weekend. I might join ya
and to add MORE fule to the fire, my buddy just told me he has his families place at snowbird on sun/mon! but the cheapest flight from dc to slc is the same price as the early-bird Tline season pass
($370)
I can't believe I am saying this, but New England might have better snow than Snowbird right now! The Northern NE resorts certainly came close or passed Utah in total snowfall this year. Of course, I still would give the edge in terrain to Snowbird.
It does look like Bluebird weather in New England Friday-Sunday.
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skibum: keep me posted if you decide to head up to belleayre this weekend. I might join ya and to add MORE fule to the fire, my buddy just told me he has his families place at snowbird on sun/mon! but the cheapest flight from dc to slc is the same price as the early-bird Tline season pass ($370)
I was really debating if I wanted to make that long drive up there (it is a good 6 1/2 hour or so from where I am at. through some of the worst traffic in this country, but if somebody else is really wanting to join me, I'd be willing to do it. I'd be planning on leaving after work on Friday (tomorrow), stay Friday night, and Saturday night, which would mean I'd have to find a place to stay. I'd be skiing Saturday and Sunday, and leave back for home after done skiing on Sunday.
As for flying to Manchester, to get a flight on this short of notice, I did not see anything less than $775! F' that! At least driving to Belleayre is more feasible for me, although I wish I could take advantage of that awesome skiing farther up north. For example, I'd always wanted to go to Mad River Glen.
Well, MRG is closed and rumor has it they already started taking the single chair apart (it's getting thoroughly re-vamped).
Sugarbush, Stowe would be my top choices for the weekend (in that order) followed by Sugarloaf.
I remember thinking how cheap it was to fly to Manchester,nh when I went to ski Wildcat & Sunday river,Ma. You say $775??!!?...you could fly to Manchester, england for that!! You sure they didn't quote you to England VS New england? Anyway 219, you say the terrain is better at Snowbird than Stowe/Jay/Wildcat? Do you really believe that, or are you just being Politically Ski-rect?
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Do you really believe that, or are you just being Politically Ski-rect?
Yes to both!! Being a former VT skier myself, the real truth will never be admitted!
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you say the terrain is better at Snowbird than Stowe/Jay/Wildcat? Do you really believe that, or are you just being Politically Ski-rect?
dude, are you drinking again? you could fit all 3 of those places and Killington inside Snowbird!
Look, I'm only half serious...but think about it....You a double D man? I like em half the size..with a really good feel!(drooling happy face) The terrain is as sweet as it gets..just a little less of it..+ you can go down to the lodge & back up to the hill in less time
Ya crunch Snowbird is big, i think 219 was talkin about the if one finds the blue terrain at killington challenging then you're gonna have a long day at the bird factor. Killington doesn't scare like Snowbird......unowut andy maybe i should just get it over with and change my handle to snobirdsnob or someting like that.......anyways this snowbird vs killington/stowe/jay/wildcat discussion could be some fun this weekend? Where'd i put those tipsy stix??
hehe, im friggin dying to ski this weekend tho! thinking about that place belleayre, but i was reading some peoples report from yesterday and they said the snow was pretty wet and sticky, but hell its better than the previous plan of detailing my car and riding my motorcycle this weekend.
On the other hand, Little Cottonwood just got 16" of freshies and my buddy will have his timeshare at snowbird this weekend. Alta is re-opening tommorrow for the weekend, and the webcams are stoking me out with all that untouched powder sitting there since they are closed today. And I found a flight/car package from IAD to SLC for under $400! If anyone is into that, let me know cause you will have a free place to stay even if i dont go, cause my buddy will be happy to have a ski partner for the weekend.
ps. yeah i know, i need to relax and think about something else besides skiing, but its a real bad addiction.. i cant stop!
I hate to throw more fuel on the fire crunchy, but I saw a deal from Richmond to SLC for $250 on Travelocity just now.
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I remember thinking how cheap it was to fly to Manchester,nh when I went to ski Wildcat & Sunday river,Ma. You say $775??!!?...you could fly to Manchester, england for that!! You sure they didn't quote you to England VS New england?
I went and doubled-checked! Yes, that is Manchester, NH! I guess at this short of notice it would not surprised me. Granted, I just did a quick check on Expedia.com, but still!
You all just didn't get my metaphor..didya? the double D's wern't diamonds they were Daisey's Dukes!..A womans breast ya friggin Morons...Or did you know what i was talkin about but too Embarrased to reply
...No Jimmi, you ain't a Snob..Just brainwashed maybe..A case of keepin up with the Jones. I'm going to add Whiteface MTN & Sugarbush & erase Wildcat(Even though its fun as hell) just to get the vert evened out.Even though the question was about Terrain & not Size(Metaphor) Snowbird has 2900' vert off the gondola & Whiteface has over 3000'..Sugar at 2600' Stowe at 2400' & Jay with about 2200'....Now, I tried for years to get my ole boss(Money bags) in DC to explain to me exactly why it was so much better out west than here on the east Coast. He would stammer along & finally just simply say..."its the snow..It just has a crunch to it i like"....I know you all can Splain the reasons a whole lot better than that. Go Ahead & play salesman with me..Sell me a trip to The Bird with the added expense that goes with it. Why is the Terrain better than what I can find at WF,S,SB,J?...Remember also, that I have Skied the front face of Vail & every back Bowl with it, Along with all of Beaver Cr along with the Expert only Grouse MT. Is Snowbird better than Vail/BC?..Side Question....If I can get a good & convincing explanation I'll book a trip to Utah within 2 years.( the nosebleed & lack of oxygen at the high elevations of utah offset the Cold of NE..(even there)...I think it comes down to this keyword...FUN..Will you really be having more fun at the Bird than Coming down thru the glades off of Jay peak & Swooping down thru the dips & turns off the wide open cruisers? What is you'alls version of Fun? Everyone has a diff version of what is fun..Don't they?...I will close by saying I think you all are having Delusions of Grandeur if you think that you need more Mountain than these NE Champs have to offer...Prove me wrong!...HAVE FUN THIS WEEKEND....Watch them Stix Jimmi!
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Is Snowbird better than Vail/BC?
You only know Barbara Bush. You are happy with Barbara Bush. Life is good for you. Don't worry or argue, be happy.
Meanwhile, beyond the circle of Barbara Bush, there is Elizabeth Hurley. Trust me, you should stick with Barbara Bush.
Always the lurker mr JohnL..You Don't know what Barb Bush looked like in her prime! You know johnL, Stowe has a 30 to 35 pitch on thier front 4.Maybe the same pitch at 11,000 feet has more of a thrill than at 3600'..I'm willing to learn...Next....
Yeah, Barb was a real hottie before electricity!
I think what intrigues me about the West is the elevation, with a lot of skiing way above the treeline. That gives it a real different feel than the East. I grew up in New England and am a New England skier to the core, but the Western resorts hold a lot of allure. Of course, I also only get to ski out West every 3-4 years or so, and that's probably part of it.
That said, there is plenty of terrain on the East coast that can still kick my butt.
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That said, there is plenty of terrain on the East coast that can still kick my butt.
so you are saying you wanna plan a trip to tuckermans soon? im in! 
yep, that's right. Nothing to see in utah and colorado. just stay here, no reason to go out west. see ya!
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I think what intrigues me about the West is the elevation, with a lot of skiing way above the treeline. That gives it a real different feel than the East. I grew up in New England and am a New England skier to the core, but the Western resorts hold a lot of allure. Of course, I also only get to ski out West every 3-4 years or so, and that's probably part of it.
IMHO, the main advantage of the higher elevation of the Western resorts is that the snow is kept fresher, in better condition, for a longer period of time. Vermont gets a lot of quality snow, but with the lower elevations, there is a significant risk of a rain event every month of the year. Rain, followed by the next freeze, will just destroy the conditions (but skiing in the rain can be surprisingly nice.)
Higher elevation also means lower temperatures. Less chance for the thaw-freeze cycle to take place. But with less air to absorb the sun, slopes with a sun exposure can degrade pretty quickly out West.
I'm not sure if the following is true, but I believe it was Denis who mentioned that a very high altitudes (found at Mammoth, etc.), the snow will actually sublimate (evaporate) and not melt. That tends to keep snow fresher. Also, a higher ratio of terrain to skiers also keeps the snow fresher. Though, in popular trails out West, the amount of traffic on the trail can get pretty high and the trails degrade pretty fast. Solution for that, don't ski groomed runs.
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That said, there is plenty of terrain on the East coast that can still kick my butt.
I agree with that. There is some very challenging terrain in Vermont, especially in the trees. Plus, you can find a nearly unskiable line on just about any decent expert slope, which ups the difficulty factor.
In terms of fear factor, exposed slopes really up the ante; that's one thing that is very rare on the East Coast unless you head to the back/side country. A challenging mogul run may be tough, but it is not scary. Icy conditions may be tough, but are generally not scary. A 45 degree chute where a fall may mean a tumble for several hundred feet over rocks, brush into trees, rocks or cliffs is very scary. (Or even hiking a narrow ridge line to get to some slopes.) Doesn't matter how good the snow is, in a lot of spots a fall can have consequences. The consequences may be injury, or it may be an arduous climb back up several hundred feet in waist deep snow with little oxygen in the air to retrieve your skis (if you are lucky enough to find them.)
Even if your skills are top notch, your skiing can fall apart very quickly in a situation that you are not used to/or are a bit scared of. For me, there is plenty of terrain out West, but not much terrain in the East, that I'm nervous to ski.
Why do I ski out West? A bit for the upped fear factor, but mostly for the hope of knee deep powder runs on sustained 40+ degree slopes. I got several dozens of them this past winter.
Its pretty hard to say that western resorts give you more pow skiing. I guess they have more powder days. Everywhere, pow usually gets massively skied off tracked out long before it degrades. Snowbird regularly gets tracked out by 1-2PM at that point you have to start hitting the trees for fresh. I agree that conditions overall are better though.
I'm Soaking all this in..I was surprised that This Thread didn't get bombarded with a bunch of face shot video's from Utah. The west is Just BIGGER overall. Like 219 said the Above Treeline/Awesome view/ butterflies in the belly/ Strangely Diff atmosphere, turns on the human spirit. Maybe like you said 219..its SOOOoo Diff from the closed in trail systems of the east & Variety is the spice of life....I bet though, that if you took a person that has skied thier whole life out west, they would be thrilled by the new England Experience. The thick woods, the tight tracks snaking down the mountain with all the great variation in pitch..The beautiful countryside & villages..Ect... Proof of that can be all the Europeans that ski in NE versas the treeless skiing they are used to in the Alps so much closer to thier homes.
I remember feeling & seeing the West for the 1st time..& it was awesome...But once I started to Ski I Remember thinking.."A slope is a slope no matter where you are...It comes down to your skiis between you & the Snow & thats when I realized that I should be appreciative of what I have out east. It was a pleasant surprise, Because I had thought that the Western experience would have ruined any skiing back home. When you get to the level of the big boys on the east coast & the big boys out west, you just have to say "Its all Good!..Just Different!"
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Its pretty hard to say that western resorts give you more pow skiing.
Then why are you considering moving to Utah next year?
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I guess they have more powder days.
Uuuuh, yep.
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Everywhere, pow usually gets massively skied off tracked out long before it degrades.
In lots of places, you are correct. But for the price of a lift ticket as guide service, I'll be glad to show you plenty of spots and areas where that is not correct. But you'll have to be willing to bushwack (I know from experience you are), hike and traverse to get to some of the stuff. Most in-bounds, some OB.
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Snowbird regularly gets tracked out by 1-2PM at that point you have to start hitting the trees for fresh.
You are being generous. For Snowbird on a blue-bird pow day, I'd say by 11 AM at the latest. I love the terrain at Snowbird, but it is not my first choice on a pow day. Luke, look elsewhere.
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I agree that conditions overall are better though.
Yep. But if you two do move to Utah, don't get wussy on us. Remember that you are allowed to ski when it's not at least 8 inches of fresh. And firm conditions with the right skis can be a lot of fun.
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The thick woods, the tight tracks snaking down the mountain with all the great variation in pitch
You can get a lot of that out West, it just may not be on the trail map.
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When you get to the level of the big boys on the east coast & the big boys out west, you just have to say "Its all Good!..Just Different!"
I grew up skiing Vermont and NE, I'll always ski those areas. Different from the West, yep. Both East/West good, yep. But given a fixed X dollars to spend, in general, I'll now head to Utah over Vermont. But not always.
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Because I had thought that the Western experience would have ruined any skiing back home.
Since this is DCSki, I definitely want to comment on this one. I've skied about 60 areas in the US and Canada. I've never understood why so many people in the DC area give up on local skiing. I still have a total blast skiing places like Blue Knob, Laurel Mountain (if it ever reopens), Timberline/Canaan Valley, and other places. Had a great day at Seven Springs this past winter with other DC skiers. Plus, no matter what the conditions are like, I appreciate the convenience of Whitetail/Liberty/Roundtop. Given the choice of hitting the outdoor or indoors gyms in the Winter, I prefer the nearby outdoors gyms.
JohnL, I Really thought a Guy Like you was going to rip me a new A-000 But Now I think you should run for office! Maybe the Department of Homeland Skiing!..U-DA-MAN
NE Champs vs. West ramblings.
Variety is the spice of life. As many of you know...I never met a ski area I didn't like. On a good day Wisp is great, on a good day Killington is better, on a good day Snowmass is even better, on a good day St. Anton might be close to the best. If you like little mtns, you can't help but like bigger ones. I too, dislike it when DC skiers say they will only ski out west. I find that disloyal and wimpy. It's all good to me, whether you're night skiing on a sheet of ice at Roundtop or floating thru 18" of cold Colorado smoke under blue skies. One is just a little bit more fun than the other. One is preparing you for some future challenge. One is fulfilling a long held desire. The slopes are always whiter on the other side.
About above treeline skiing...I never got much of it in the past and was particularly curious about it in the Alps. Have recent experience in Alps and out West. It's quite liberating on a nice day. But turns out it can actually be a drawback in some respects. Flatlight, which occurs on many cloudy and/or snowy days is an especially big factor on open terrain. It makes skiing very difficult and not so fun, almost as bad as skiing in a heavy fog. No trees and other markers to aid depth perception. Can't see very well in front of you and have to ski defensively. Got a taste of this recently at Loveland, CO. Fortunately, we got a mix of snow and sun the day we were there, and also there are treelined trails on the bottom third of their mtn, so flatlight did not bother us too long or ruin the day. But some Europeans actually prize our slopes in Colorado/Utah/CA because they have treelined trails at such high elevations and with such good snow coverage it minimizes the number of days ruined by bad flatlight conditions. One of the places I skied in Austria a couple years ago, Bad Hofgastein had a certain bragging right that I thought was rather peculiar at the time. One of their mtns with a warm and sunny exposure was known quite widely for having trees above the elevation of 6000 feet. This was a rarity on the mtns in the area and considered a bonus for its ski ability and hike ability on bad light/weather days.
Jimk..I Brought up The Variety Thing,& have always been the local guy promoting the local skiing. Long Live the Alpps...East Coast Rules..Ever read that? + The Fact that The Europeans Like to Ski NE Because of The lack of Trees in the Alps...Why Was Your Response to JohnL? I was the last post & most times a person will just respond to the last post. You went out of your way to respond to JohnL & nothing JohnL said Reflected anything on your post...Why is that?...I'm Not Postically Correct?...My English isn't perfect?..Wuzzz up Home Biscuit?....I can't stand Snobs...Ask Jimmi..
I feel like one of those Cavemen in the Gieco commercials...Why did you not Respond to me JimK...Because I'm not Smart?...Hold on...Crunchy is calling me on my Cellphone!Wait a minute..Its Jimmi
My momma warned me about people who drink and post!
Anybody who's whole existance revolves around skiing and fishing must have very deep insight to the meaning of life so I just single handedly upped your rating from 2 to 3 stars.
Jim, I agree with you 100% that any skiing is good, including here in the mid-A. All of my 25 days this season were in the mid-A, and I have to say it was a great season for me. Two things I dislike about the mid-A and like about VT and the Western US are the trail lengths and vertical drops. Sometimes I start to feel like I am doing laps here in the mid-A, especially on my weekly trips to Wintergreen where I ski that 1000ft vertical with the fast lift ride over and over and over... In contrast, 2000+ ft vertical in Vermont and out West, and sometimes 3000+ ft vertical, is a real treat. Heck, the 1500 ft vertical on Snowshoe's western territory is a nice break for me 8-9 days a season!
The funny thing is that I grew up skiing in Connecticut, where the vertical drops were usually less than 700ft and the mountains had very low elevations of 1000-2000 ft, in contrast to the mid-A, where the elevations are often 3500-4900 ft. So the mid-A resorts are actually bigger and badder than what I grew up with. I think the snow is probably better too, most of the time.
Grew up skiing in CT!
Mt. Southington, Ski Sundown, Mohawk...I have skied these areas too. When my sister-in-law lived in Newtown, CT we always went to visit for a few days after Christmas and I would carry my skis and hit the areas in MA, CT and southern VT. Skier219 note the places I have skied in my Lifetime of Skiing post. What are the names of all the areas you have skied?
The Colonel
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Since this is DCSki, I definitely want to comment on this one. I've skied about 60 areas in the US and Canada. I've never understood why so many people in the DC area give up on local skiing. I still have a total blast skiing places like Blue Knob, Laurel Mountain (if it ever reopens), Timberline/Canaan Valley, and other places.
heck yeah! I can't see a real ski enthusiast giving up on local skiing and still be considered a ski enthusiast?! I plan on taking at least one trip outside the east coast each season, but the bulk of my skiing is gonna be right here in my own backyard, and im still gonna have a blast. I had so many sweet days this year at Tline, that Im definitely getting a season pass there next season. Ill guarantee ill have more days skiing freshies in WV than I will skiing them out west or wherever
comparing resorts in totally different geographical areas is kinda silly. so west is bigger than the east, but western us aint the biggest either. whistler/blackcomb has twice the vert and skiable terrain as alta/bird.
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Then why are you considering moving to Utah next year? Uuuuh, yep. In lots of places, you are correct. But for the price of a lift ticket as guide service, I'll be glad to show you plenty of spots and areas where that is not correct. But you'll have to be willing to bushwack (I know from experience you are), hike and traverse to get to some of the stuff. Most in-bounds, some OB. You are being generous. For Snowbird on a blue-bird pow day, I'd say by 11 AM at the latest. I love the terrain at Snowbird, but it is not my first choice on a pow day. Luke, look elsewhere. Yep. But if you two do move to Utah, don't get wussy on us. Remember that you are allowed to ski when it's not at least 8 inches of fresh. And firm conditions with the right skis can be a lot of fun.
My point was simply that you have to be skiing in the snow if you want to get the best conditions. Once the storm is over, the snow will be gone in a few hours. They have more frequent big storms in UT so its easier to get those powder days. Your right, there are plenty of off the beaten path places that will be much better. A few inbounds / gated also OB. The reason Snowbird gets skied off so quick is that so many really fast aggressive skiers on big wide open faces mean that snow is gone in just a few hours. I think if you know the mtn and ski terrain as patrol opens it up you might find fresh lines until 1 or 2PM. I am keeping my metrons for carving skis. Thats allowed in UT right?
I have skied in Utah many times as my daughter lived there for about 6 years. Anyway, one thing that always amused me was the locals complaining about "icy conditions". Skiing in the Mid-Atlantic and the east in general, I measure icy conditions by the ultimate icy resort...Blue Knob, especially in the 70s. When one said Blue Knob was icy it meant that the surface was the texture and clear color of ice in one's refrigerator. The standing joke was "Blue Knob powder"! In Utah at Alta, icy is a barely perceptible "scrunch" heard occasionally when skiing the mountain, and this sends the locals into a tailspin. I have skied Utah in early December, January, February, March, and early-to mid-April. I have encountered packed powder, powder, freshies, etc. but never anything close to "Blue Know ice, or any other eastern "icy conditions". Most of the time the snow in the East is much wetter than the ULTRA dry snow that blankets the Utah resorts.
I ski them all, any place I can find snow, but comparing generally encountered conditions and resort size here in the east to that in Utah is without any real merit. For us to encounter Utah type conditions is a real rarity, for Utah skiers to purposely travel east to ski New England or the Mid-Atlantic is even rarer.
And another thing to keep in mind...not all resorts out West have similar snow surfaces. For example, the west coast areas, to include Whistler-Blackcomb in BC have prodigious snowfall amounts, but most skiers are familiar with the term "Sierra cement", a snow with a water content much more akin to that found in the east, most often not as light as the snow in Colorado and Utah.
The Colonel
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Is Snowbird better than Vail/BC?
You only know Barbara Bush. You are happy with Barbara Bush. Life is good for you. Don't worry or argue, be happy.
Meanwhile, beyond the circle of Barbara Bush, there is Elizabeth Hurley. Trust me, you should stick with Barbara Bush.
I'm bored and BEDAZZLED . Some fun this-last weekend??? Poured concrete Saturday had to drink budlite waiting for the set because it was 0only 10:30 and i never drink BEER before noon. Chased toro for a couple hours on Sunday, yard looks nice, so does yours skier219. This NE Champs discussion was Some Fun, what will we do for Some Fun This Weekend?
Well, I scrubbed and glazed the decks and chased yardman for a bit; ran out of beer, and while yard looks ok I'd rather seen more of ms. hurley. A good season is gone and I think I forgot to look at my skis all last week. I can't even think of next year except to wonder where the utah money will originate. sigh. Otoh, time to start preping for the sunset beach trip
I'm going to Mt. Washington this weekend. Out of town business meetings are going to block out all other weekends until June 23 which will be too late. The time to go is now. A friend on the Mt. W. volunteer ski patrol says they have gotten 75" of snow since Apr. 1. The biggest storm was accompanied by 150+ mph wind from the east, which is rare; normally the wind comes from the west. As a result the ravines are filled and lines that are rarely (or perhaps never) skied are open now. You can skin up the Sherburn trail all the way and ski down all the way at day's end. This was a snap decision made yesterday when I realized the upcoming calendar restrictions and checked the Southwest web page and saw weekend flights filling up fast. I'll go BWI to Manchester, NH and rent a car there.
This is a family trip. On Sat. I plan to visit my daughter and 2 little grandsons (3&6) in Burlington, VT, then on Sun. my son-in-law and I will take Conor, the big guy at 9, to the big Mtn. He had his first taste of it on the summit snowfields at 7 and is now eager for bigger stuff. We plan to take him to Hillman's Highway and the Lower Snowfields, both of which are in great shape. He could ski the Tuck's Bowl but we don't want him climbing there. One slip, or being hit by a falling gomer from above means you slide the whole thing. He only weighs 55 lbs. and we don't want him hit by a falling out of control 200 lb'er. Also Ice Fall season has begun in the Bowl. Better to let him try Hillman's, a great run in it's own right that peaks at about 40 deg. and has far fewer people and no ice fall.
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/avalanche/
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I'm going to Mt. Washington this weekend. Out of town business meetings are going to block out all other weekends until June 23 which will be too late. The time to go is now. A friend on the Mt. W. volunteer ski patrol says they have gotten 75" of snow since Apr. 1. The biggest storm was accompanied by 150+ mph wind from the east, which is rare; normally the wind comes from the west. As a result the ravines are filled and lines that are rarely (or perhaps never) skied are open now. You can skin up the Sherburn trail all the way and ski down all the way at day's end. This was a snap decision made yesterday when I realized the upcoming calendar restrictions and checked the Southwest web page and saw weekend flights filling up fast. I'll go BWI to Manchester, NH and rent a car there.
This is a family trip. On Sat. I plan to visit my daughter and 2 little grandsons (3&6) in Burlington, VT, then on Sun. my son-in-law and I will take Conor, the big guy at 9, to the big Mtn. He had his first taste of it on the summit snowfields at 7 and is now eager for bigger stuff. We plan to take him to Hillman's Highway and the Lower Snowfields, both of which are in great shape. He could ski the Tuck's Bowl but we don't want him climbing there. One slip, or being hit by a falling gomer from above means you slide the whole thing. He only weighs 55 lbs. and we don't want him hit by a falling out of control 200 lb'er. Also Ice Fall season has begun in the Bowl. Better to let him try Hillman's, a great run in it's own right that peaks at about 40 deg. and has far fewer people and no ice fall.
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/avalanche/
Carpe diem Denis!
While I was fortunate to recently catch good second-week-of-April conditions in a long planned Summit County Colorado visit, I did note with irony that at same time northern New England was getting bombed with even more snow.
