Ski tuning question
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neustkg
February 14, 2007
Member since 02/6/2007 🔗
5 posts
I have a pair of Atomics that I bought in 2000, and haven't skied them all that much, maybe a total of 12 days? Haven't had them in for tuning, either in that time. I live in Colorado and do most of my skiing here or in Oregon a few days, so never had to ski on ice like on the east coast.

Back when I used to ski a lot, I would take my skis in for base grinding every two years and I would sharpen/maintain skis myself. I had a device that allowed me to set the angles for sidecut and base edges, but it was made in the mid 80s, and has since broken.

Does anyone know of an edging device that I can buy that allows me to set the angles needed on shape skis these days? I am skiing on a pair of Atomic Betaride 9.22's. What angles are recommended for these all mountain skis?
KevR
February 14, 2007
Member since 01/27/2004 🔗
786 posts
I'm sure I'll get blasted by this but i've had little luck in the dc area getting folks to tune my skis to their original factoring settings which to me should be a no brainer. I have k2s and while i can't recall the bevel settings and all that sitting right here -- at one time i could and i even had the paper work to back it up. But take them to a ski shop and say "oh and make sure the bevel is set to X" and i have been stared at like i was talking in some alien tongue. I had one place tell them they didn't know if they could set the machine to do it and so forth...

anyway regardless of whether it makes any difference to the way I ski, i think at a bear minimum any shop should set the skis to the factory supplied default! Don't you?

But it gets worse: I called K2 and asked them, "please refer to me a shop in the DC area that will tune the ski to your specs." They said they had NO IDEA. this is just wrong!

But I rant -- and I did not answer your question. I'd probably go (if you can) to some reputable shop there (assuming you are there now and coming to DC?) and just have them set up to the factory defaults and sharpened -- you might leave the edges sharped out to the widest bit of the shovel and tail, some places will knock that off alot ... and i think that little bit of extra edge can be nicer on harder snow and package, glazed off services.

On the hand you might find it "hooky or grabby" which is 100% subjective. But the nice thing is you can always take your hooky and grabby skis and go to the resort ski shop and they'll knock it down a bit and not charge, whereas the opposite: sharping, will cost right?

Now as to the tool: I bought a "bevel" sharpening tool and frankly I didn't think it was terribly useful. Could be user error -- I still have it, I still bring it when I go on a trip... and from time to time I still rub the thing up and down my ski edges... But I think that justs makes me feel better. It's one of these from fk -- i have the "multi" but there are several. http://www.fktools-us.com/ NOTE: i had to buy several stones to go with it.

LOCAL to DC: I still think if you are HERE and you want good work done on your skis, the washington DC ski center is among the better.

Here's one online place to get tools: http://www.tognar.com/

Your SKIS setting: I don't know, did you try calling customer service or checking their website?
Clay
February 14, 2007
Member since 04/11/2006 🔗
555 posts
First, I don't ski Atomics so I want to be perfectly clear that this is second hand knowledge. I do tune my own skis and spend a lot of time on the Epic tuning forums. The Atomic skiers over there claim that all Atomics come from the factory with 1/3 edges (1 degree base, 3 degrees side).

As for multi-tools I started out using the Ski Visions Ski Sharp tool (here) with most of the stones available. It worked fine, but I wasn't able to do my tips and tails the way I like, so moved to a Beast Base Edge Guide and a Pro Edge Side Bevel guide. I think it really depends on personal preference.

Clay
comprex
February 14, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Quote:


LOCAL to DC: I still think if you are HERE and you want good work done on your skis, the washington DC ski center is among the better.





They are also the Atomic dealer here.

The old orange 9'22 was a pretty fun ski if kept on edge. 1/3 works, though I remember the ski being pretty grabby in Tahoe soft snow that year.

One of these years, KevR, you will have to show me your FK tool procedure. . .
neustkg
February 15, 2007
Member since 02/6/2007 🔗
5 posts
Quote:

As for multi-tools I started out using the Ski Visions Ski Sharp tool (here) with most of the stones available. It worked fine, but I wasn't able to do my tips and tails the way I like




I also used the Ski Visions tool and liked it, but had the problems you mentioned w/tips and tails. I also broke the finishing stones and didn't know where to buy replacements. I would probably like to buy a tool that incorporates a flat file as flat files are easy to buy at the local hardware store. Might be easier to work the tips and tails, too.
TerpSKI
February 18, 2007
Member since 03/10/2004 🔗
167 posts
Quote:

Quote:

As for multi-tools I started out using the Ski Visions Ski Sharp tool (here) with most of the stones available. It worked fine, but I wasn't able to do my tips and tails the way I like




I also used the Ski Visions tool and liked it, but had the problems you mentioned w/tips and tails. I also broke the finishing stones and didn't know where to buy replacements. I would probably like to buy a tool that incorporates a flat file as flat files are easy to buy at the local hardware store. Might be easier to work the tips and tails, too.




I used to use a multi-tool and didn't care for it. Get a 3* bevel guide, diamond stone, file and clamp. Also get a decent ski vise. As KevR pointed out Tognar is a good retailer and they will help you if you have any questions using the equipment.

There is definitely a learning curve. If you ski in Summit County, there is a great shop in Frisco that does the best tune jobs of any shop I have ever been to and the employees are all very knowledgable. Precision Ski & Golf
KevR
February 21, 2007
Member since 01/27/2004 🔗
786 posts
Am I the only one that thinks shops and manufacturers should get together so they can reproduce the "factory tune" of any ski thru some sort of certification program?

I mean don't you think calling K2 and asking them which DC area ski I should send my skis to put them back to the factory settings, should result in more than "We have no idea..."

Is it just me?
comprex
February 21, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Dunno, KevR, the respective factories don't know what edge angles I use on snow or how steep the terrain is or how quickly I initiate, let alone the snow temps/ snow quality/ structure needs; should it not really be up to me to (set/have set) them up as I like them?

There's enough controversy about binding mount position and the lack of individual adaptability thereof, that I don't think factory-side intervention is the answer.

Perhaps the issue is quality control through better reporting on the customer side.
Clay
February 21, 2007
Member since 04/11/2006 🔗
555 posts
Most good shops will have a chart in the backroom that lists the manufacturer's factory specs and can tell you what it is. If we are talking about 'good' shops, a good shop will be able to put your skis back to factory spec without any special instructions from you.

Of course, finding a good shop can be a bit of a trick and to comprex's point if you really want to make sure it's done to your satisfaction you should probably do it yourself. I started doing my own this year because I couldn't find a shop close to me that I trust.

I realize that not all skiers have the desire to spend the time, but I have thoroughly enjoyed learning about the tuning process this year. It is really cool to stand at the top of an icy slope and not have to worry about whether your edge will hold because you put the edge on there yourself that morning.

If you're interested in learning, there is some great information on Epicski in the Tuning Forum and a lot of resources on the web. Feel free to PM me if you'd like me to point you towards some. If you work at all with your hands, it's not very difficult.

Clay
Roy
February 22, 2007
Member since 01/11/2000 🔗
609 posts
Quote:

Am I the only one that thinks shops and manufacturers should get together so they can reproduce the "factory tune" of any ski thru some sort of certification program?

I mean don't you think calling K2 and asking them which DC area ski I should send my skis to put them back to the factory settings, should result in more than "We have no idea..."

Is it just me?




It's not just you KevR, I agree. If not in the format of a "factory" certification industrywide, I would think a manufacturer's certification for shops that advertise or really push certain brands would be better marketing.

Every year, the ski magazines will do stories on the "Best Boot Fitters". I can't recall seeing the "Best Ski Tuners" story. In many cases though, most shops are not doing tunes by hand. And I refuse to have my skis put on the machines.

There are a couple of ski instructors I had do my skis (when I was an instructor at Liberty) and the gentleman in the ski shop there would do mine once a week. I've semi-learned how to tune and wax my skis. Waxing I feel comfortable on but the tune is more of deburring. I can't P-tex (tried once and have given up for now)
chico
February 22, 2007
Member since 02/15/2007 🔗
3 posts
I am under the impression that many times factory skis are off of their own recommended edge angles, so does it even matter what the factory suggests?

In general base edges should be:
1/2 degree expert racing
1/2-1 degree intermediate-advanced
1-1 1/2 degree beginner intermediate

Side edge angles should be:
90-89 degrees powder and soft snow
89-88 degrees medium, firm snow
88-87 degrees hard snow, ice

Just a few other tips:
File in one direction only, don't as one poster said, "run it up and down the edge."

I'm not so sure that the tips and tails really need much attention. It is generally recommended to keep the edge sharp/beveled from the point on the tip where the ski bends to the same point on the tail.

Always debur your skis to prevent them from being grabby; there are several "soft" stones available to do this with.

Hope this helps a little.
tromano
February 22, 2007
Member since 12/19/2002 🔗
998 posts
Thing is, all tunes should be done by hand unless you are stonegrinding and laying in a bevel. Just my $.02.
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