Tips Crossing
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mammoth
December 24, 2005
Member since 12/24/2005 🔗
1 posts
I recently switched skis to fatter twin tips and my tips have been crossing frequently. I ski with my skis very close together (usually within an inch) so I've always had problems with my ski tips crossing in powder, choppy conditions, and occasionlly while skiing moguls. Does anyone have any good tips to prevent ski tips from crossing or for skiing on fatter skis? Thanks.
Roy
December 24, 2005
Member since 01/11/2000 🔗
609 posts
It sounds like you are skiing in the 1980's. They used to teach us to ski with our skis close together.

Nowadays, especially with the new skis [At what point do we stop calling them new skis? It's been 10 years!], you should ski with a wider stance. With your skis on, jump up a few times and watch the position of your feet once you land. This should be your optimal width for skiing (it should be roughly the width of your hips but this does vary slightly with each individual). Try skiing with your feet in this width position.

If you have always had problems crossing your tips, this may be aided by having your boots properly canted. Most people have a natural tendency to have their toes point outward (and opposite) of each other. When you let your feet hang on the chairlift, which way do your toes point?

If this has always been a consistent problem, you may consider a lesson with a pro and ask him/her to specifically address that problem.
Crush
December 24, 2005
Member since 03/21/2004 🔗
1,016 posts
This is an old tried-n-true technique.

You must be very firm with your tips. Just before you start to ski, take your skis in hand and look at both tips very carefully and steadily.

Tell both of them at the same time (it is important to speak to both of them with equal emphasis or one of them will think they're in less trouble than the other) "NO MORE BUMPING INTO EACH OTHER!"

The tone of voice is very important don't sound angry just be firm and speak loudly (ignore strange looks from other skiers; they are probably the ones crossing their tips all the time).

While skiing, reinforce the idea by speaking to your tips and repeating the command. After about 2-3 snow days doing this, they should not cross anymore except occasionally, at which point you should stop skiing, take off your skis, and give the command again *twice* before putting them back on.

... or , you could just try what Roy said. But I get better results with the above.
snowcone
December 24, 2005
Member since 09/27/2002 🔗
589 posts
Crush ... you are just strange! I love it! I guess thats what comes of being able to ski every day ... all that cold air freezes your brain.

See ya soon ... PCR in 18 days!

... and a Happy Cristmakwanzukah to y'all!
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Crush
December 25, 2005
Member since 03/21/2004 🔗
1,016 posts
Snow - awwwwww shucks no one has called me just-strange in a long time ~blush~ you're soooo sweet ~kiss~ tee hee now I'm all embarrassed .....
Roy
December 25, 2005
Member since 01/11/2000 🔗
609 posts
Crush I've found that technique does not work as well with the new skis. The way the new skis are manufactured, they just don't listen. The all have big heads.
BushwackerinPA
December 25, 2005
Member since 12/9/2004 🔗
649 posts
Ski wider locked skis is nto even the best stance for bumps most of the time.

FYI I ski Metrons which have a 130ish tip and are probably wider than you twins.
snowcone
December 25, 2005
Member since 09/27/2002 🔗
589 posts
No, no no ... Roy , you've got it all wrong! Certain skis come from the factory as adults and have a tendency to behave properly, if not exceptionally ... Volkl 5 stars are definitely mature skis, they wouldn't dream of crossing tips. I think mammoth's problem is that he has teenage skis and he can talk himself silly bur they won't listen until he gets a pro to chat with them. I recommend engaging an instructor [with experience in rebellious tips] to give them a couple of hour long "tete a tetes" so to speak. I would be willing to bet that would solve the problem.
Crush
December 25, 2005
Member since 03/21/2004 🔗
1,016 posts
Wow like this is amazing ... there is a new show on NBC called "Ski Tip Nanny 911' !!!!! I gotta see this one ... Picabo Street visits a family in Vermont with 4 tips that need to be all put in the "Naughty Rack".
KevR
December 25, 2005
Member since 01/27/2004 🔗
786 posts
Did you check the alignment of the new bindings and boots? Is it possible a ski tech put them in slightly off, on one or both skis? Yes, yes, these days they do teach folks to keep the skis a bit wider apart ... but I know some dang good skiers who still keep there skis somewhat closer... so -- just in case, check the alignment... if not -- then its probably you.
Shadow
December 26, 2005
Member since 01/22/2005 🔗
22 posts
You shouldn't believe the things you see on those reality shows. You know that they're all setup and I've seen those skis before. They LIKE the Naughty Rack!
JohnL
December 26, 2005
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,516 posts
LOL! When travelling, do you need to buy an extra plane ticket for the Ski Nanny? Or is there a portable Nanny that travels well?

Quote:

... I've always had problems with my ski tips crossing in powder, choppy conditions, and occasionlly while skiing moguls. Does anyone have any good tips to prevent ski tips from crossing or for skiing on fatter skis?




Alignment issues aside, ski tips cross because you are not adequately pressuring both skis. In addition to your inefficient old-school very narrow stance, you *likely* are also skiing with too much weight on your downhill foot. Choppy, variable conditions are notorious for having your skis deflect. Unweighted/unpressured skis will deflect more than weighted skis.

Also, if you initiate your turns with a lot of skidding or any stemming at all, you will lose control of one or more skis in deeper snow. Skis prefer to carve, not skid in deeper snow. Both skis need to be turning as one, but not an inch apart.

As Roy stated, the extreme narrow stance you describe was taught/skied a lot in the 70's and 80's. Using the terms a bit loosely, modern/shaped ski/fat ski skiing technique has really been taught since the early 90's. I had lessons in Vail in the early 90's (on "straight" skis) and advanced clinics in the late 90's (on both "straight" and "shaped" skis), and they taught pretty much the same technique that I'm finding discussed on Epic, presented in Ski mags, reading in books, etc.

A ski lesson would introduce you to some more efficient newer technique. A competent ski instructor would be able to diagnose many issues in about 30 seconds. The cure is the hard part.
Crush
December 26, 2005
Member since 03/21/2004 🔗
1,016 posts
I showed this thread to the great ski coach Olle Larsson who trained both Hillery Lindh and Picabo Street, and these are his comments below (really!):

"...
Eric
It is not getting any easier now to address the skis as productivity has gone to China for some comanies. I prefer K2 as I can stick to English. Or else get the feet apart. Start by getting the feet 10 inches apart while taking a piss in the woods because then there is time to think and concentrating.
Olle
"
snowcone
December 26, 2005
Member since 09/27/2002 🔗
589 posts
Ummm Crush ... that might not work for female skiers? I could offer a suggestion but then Scott would take away all my nice shiney stars and bann me from the board ... its just not worth it!

And that speaking in foreign languages: thats why Volkls are obedient, those Austrians are so very civilized. It will be interesting next year for Volkl skis; Austrian with a Chinese accent?
JohnL
December 26, 2005
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,516 posts
I'll deduct a star or two on this one, it's too good to pass up.

Quote:

Start by getting the feet 10 inches apart while taking a piss in the woods because then there is time to think and concentrating.




I have to respectively disagree with Olle. I think the proper technique is skis aligned together, making use of excessive tip-lead and counter-body rotation. Compensating for slope angle and any windage.
jimmy
December 27, 2005
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
Mammoth, don't listen to these crazies, i almost fell into this and drunk posted (i've resolved to never drunk post again on dcski )....anyways, here's ur problem, don't talk to them, hire a nanny or take a lesson, the problem is u got them on the wrong foot, ie, the right ski wants to be where the left ski is and vice versa.

Edit to add craig might have answered your question here . Shaped ski's act funny when they're not on edge and it'sw harder to get them on edge when ur feet are close together.
KevR
December 27, 2005
Member since 01/27/2004 🔗
786 posts
Perfecting the slow, super-wide arc rail-turn for cat walks or other flat areas is really challenging but worth it... (still working on it myself)
Crush
December 27, 2005
Member since 03/21/2004 🔗
1,016 posts
Quote:

... . Shaped ski's act funny when they're not on edge ...




Jimmy - not only do they act funny, but they supremely believe in their minds that they *are* funny. I remember this pair of Elan MBX skis at The Comedy Club at Dupont Circle ... they thought they were totally on-the-edge .... I'll only say the "I Don't Get No Respect" Rodney Dangerfield shtick was way overdone.
jimmy
December 27, 2005
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
AAAH ha my friend, that's my point. They're funny when they're not on edge. Not familiar with the MBX, but i saw some Metron B5 at a party, big headed things just like bushwack says, anyways those shticks was just too heavy for me, but they thought they were totally on the edge. I had some old Olin DTX, you couldn't talk to them either, seems the little heads was always doing the thinking .
snowcone
December 27, 2005
Member since 09/27/2002 🔗
589 posts
hmmm .. Crush waddaya think? .. maybe jimmy has solved the problem? After all isn't that why there is that little sticker on one skis that says 'Left Ski name-of-ski-shop-here' or 'Right Foot name-of-other-shop-here'?

Now this got me to thinkin' .. how do they know which ski is which at the ski shop unless the skis tell the shop techs which is which? So that proves that skis can talk which by extension means they can also hear. Which then means that mammoth's skis are just ignoring him, poor boy.

Actually there is a humongous thread over at Epic Ski on the left-ski, right-ski thing. Very entertaining.

[man, this cabin fever is really getting to me! skis talking? pish posh!]
jimmy
April 3, 2006
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
Quote:

This is an old tried-n-true technique.

You must be very firm with your tips. Just before you start to ski, take your skis in hand and look at both tips very carefully and steadily.

Tell both of them at the same time (it is important to speak to both of them with equal emphasis or one of them will think they're in less trouble than the other) "NO MORE BUMPING INTO EACH OTHER!"

The tone of voice is very important don't sound angry just be firm and speak loudly (ignore strange looks from other skiers; they are probably the ones crossing their tips all the time).

While skiing, reinforce the idea by speaking to your tips and repeating the command. After about 2-3 snow days doing this, they should not cross anymore except occasionally, at which point you should stop skiing, take off your skis, and give the command again *twice* before putting them back on.

... or , you could just try what Roy said. But I get better results with the above.





I'd like to suggest this post be included in a new forum category "The Power of DCSki". I thought at the time that this reply while quite funny, was just absurd, from the mind of our own Dr. Demento but now after using the technique twice I'm a believer .

First opportunity was this past March at Snowbasin. Skiing the middle part of the Grizzly, not sure if any of my turns can be refered to as GS but i was going pretty fast and i come to the point where i just couldn't start a new turn and i'm fairly sure the people below me really were hoping i would. Instinctivly (due to the Power, i'm sure) i say "make a turn make a turn", nothing happens, i shout turnturnturn, Crush you are right you gotta get their attention, and they change edges, come around to the right and I slide to a stop just like i'd planned it all along. Please note that this technique works on skis that won't change edges as well as the kind that cross tips.

Second time was in a beginners telemark clinic, seems everyone was having trouble with their tips crossing. I took mine off to the side, so they wouldn't be embarassed by a stranger, i'd just rented them that morning, giving them orders. Later in the day, when asked by another telenewb how i kept my tips from crossing i told him to just tell them to stop it. The group found that quite funny and I don't think he believed me but i did see two others standing off to the side a bit later, talking to "themselves".

I'm curious if this has worked for anyone else this season and do people look at you funny when you talk to your skis?
SCWVA
April 3, 2006
Member since 07/13/2004 🔗
1,051 posts
Jimmy,

I talk to my skis all the time. Especially towards the end of the day in the bumps. One of my skis would start getting unruly and wouldn't turn when I wanted it to. So I'd have to give the ski a good ass chewing. It works most of the time.
Roy
April 5, 2006
Member since 01/11/2000 🔗
609 posts
It's like anything else in life. You have to establish who is the boss. Doesn't matter if it's your skis, dog, cat, neighbors or wife.

BTW, my wife never looks at this site.
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