I hope not. This will solidify my plans to get to laurel this year. Hopefully someone tries some sort of anti-trust with vail. Buying 3 ski areas, then closing down two without a sale? seems like they want no competition in the area.
If that happens, maybe the knob can get some cheap second hand equipment from those areas (or at least an investor who would see the knob as a viable vail competitor). Imagine if ikon/alterra bought blue knob to compete for western PA visits. We would finally see everything the knob could be.
IDK. I think it will hinge entirely on skier days, especially somewhere like HV. LM is obviously the low hanging fruit, I can't imagine it's break even (let alone profitable) and it has serious limitations for amenities and other activities, not to mention a DCNR guy who's hell bent on making his mark at the expense of those who pay for the place (tax payers). Nutting never should have been permitted to get LM when Buncher expressed interest. But I digress.
...and now for some good news.
Hidden Valley today.
Laurel
Seven Springs
I sure hope not. I've envied all the retired skiers on this forum for years. This summer, I joined the "I don't have to ski on weekends" group.
I was looking forward to some mid week, bluebird days at each of the 3 in the coming years.
HVdad wrote:
It's likely only at the rumor stage, but word on the street is that Vail Resorts, Inc. will be limiting skiing this year to the weekend at Laurel Mountain, and Hidden Valley will be shuttered on Mondays. Can't argue with accountants from a business perspective. That said, given the prevailing economic conditions, my guess is that they'll close Laurel in the 24/25 season, and Hidden Valley will be mothballed a year or two after that. No investments forthcoming. Happy skiing eveyone!
Need to look at 7S calendar. Also reducing hours
Looks like they will only be open Friday through Sunday until Christmas week, and the same beginning mid March
Confirmed with a buddy of mine that staff being onboarded for the winter at HV were told no Monday hours except for holidays.
So why the about face? Not good for pass sales maybe?
As for the long term, I too agree that in the foreseeable future LM and in time HV will become expendable from the Vail portfolio perspective.
HVdad wrote:
It's likely only at the rumor stage, but word on the street is that Vail Resorts, Inc. will be limiting skiing this year to the weekend at Laurel Mountain, and Hidden Valley will be shuttered on Mondays. Can't argue with accountants from a business perspective. That said, given the prevailing economic conditions, my guess is that they'll close Laurel in the 24/25 season, and Hidden Valley will be mothballed a year or two after that. No investments forthcoming. Happy skiing eveyone!
Not sure how some of these rumors get started, but these are the 2023-2024 winter regular season hours of operation planned for the resorts mentioned in this thread:
Hidden Valley: Monday-Wednesday: 10 a.m. - 4 p.m.; Thursday-Friday: 10 a.m. - 9 p.m.; Saturday: 9 a.m. - 9 p.m.; Sunday: 9 a.m. - 7 p.m.
Laurel Mountain: Monday: Closed; Tuesday-Thursday: 12 p.m. - 8 p.m.; Friday: 10 a.m. - 9 p.m.; Saturday: 9 a.m. - 9 p.m.; Sunday: 9 a.m. - 7 p.m.
Seven Springs: Monday-Friday: 9 a.m. - 9 p.m.; Saturday-Sunday: 8 a.m. - 9 p.m.
Hours may differ during holiday periods or if conditions/crowd levels warrant.
Laurel Mountain will be closed Mondays (although open on the Mondays of December 25, January 1, January 15, and February 19). Otherwise, all of these resorts plan to be open 7 days a week during the regular season.
I have heard absolutely no indication that Vail Resorts has any plans to shut down any of their Pennsylvania properties. Vail Resorts plans to announce its full 2024 capital investment plan in December, 2023.
Scott - if you went on their websites, and went to the lift ticket purchase function, went to the calendar, it showed that HV was closed on Monday and LM was closed Monday - Thursday for the season, except Holidays.. So it may have started as a rumor but the rumor seemed to be confirmed by Vail's websites for HV and LM. After the firestorm this created, they changed the operating days on the lift ticket purchase function back to what they were last year. So this is Vail's fault, regardless if the calendars were in error or intentional. i am glad the issue has been resolved, positively and we can move on.
Scott wrote:
Not sure how some of these rumors get started, but these are the 2023-2024 winter regular season hours of operation planned for the resorts mentioned in this thread:
Hidden Valley: Monday-Wednesday: 10 a.m. - 4 p.m.; Thursday-Friday: 10 a.m. - 9 p.m.; Saturday: 9 a.m. - 9 p.m.; Sunday: 9 a.m. - 7 p.m.
Laurel Mountain: Monday: Closed; Tuesday-Thursday: 12 p.m. - 8 p.m.; Friday: 10 a.m. - 9 p.m.; Saturday: 9 a.m. - 9 p.m.; Sunday: 9 a.m. - 7 p.m.
Seven Springs: Monday-Friday: 9 a.m. - 9 p.m.; Saturday-Sunday: 8 a.m. - 9 p.m.
Hours may differ during holiday periods or if conditions/crowd levels warrant.
Laurel Mountain will be closed Mondays (although open on the Mondays of December 25, January 1, January 15, and February 19). Otherwise, all of these resorts plan to be open 7 days a week during the regular season.
I have heard absolutely no indication that Vail Resorts has any plans to shut down any of their Pennsylvania properties. Vail Resorts plans to announce its full 2024 capital investment plan in December, 2023.
If you try to buy day tickets for Seven Springs, their website shows that that the resort is only open on weekends from Thanksgiving to Christmas week, and only open on weekends for the last two weeks of March. This would be a significant reduction in operating days from past years.
The driving factor is the cost of staff or lack of staff. The operating expenses for Vail were STAFF increase In pay. Many who worked in the industry are retired.
I manage by metrics not feelings. Not easy but no one can stay open losing money.
One way to see the future is where the capital improvements have taken place.
The other factor is food and booze sales
7S, Liberty, WT, JF, BB, RT makes sense near the most population centers. 3 of those 6 resorts have new lifts.
Time will tell.
Zardog
Truth.
ZARDOG wrote:
The driving factor is the cost of staff or lack of staff. The operating expenses for Vail were STAFF increase In pay. Many who worked in the industry are retired.
I manage by metrics not feelings. Not easy but no one can stay open losing money.
One way to see the future is where the capital improvements have taken place.
The other factor is food and booze sales
7S, Liberty, WT, JF, BB, RT makes sense near the most population centers. 3 of those 6 resorts have new lifts.
Time will tell.
Zardog
MitchSH wrote:
If you try to buy day tickets for Seven Springs, their website shows that that the resort is only open on weekends from Thanksgiving to Christmas week, and only open on weekends for the last two weeks of March. This would be a significant reduction in operating days from past years.
The other way to interpret the lack of day tickets on other weekends is that they will decide later how many tickets to make available later. Meaning 7Springs will be open on weekends, but mainly for Epic pass holders.
Marc , Hey, I do not know the flow of people in other areas like yours -- I do know MID Atlantic.
Correct. 80% own a pass. Weekends and holidays are the peak crush. Eric no pun.
Skiing participation was in a slow death before COVID-19. I have the surveys from USA and EU.
Historically pandemics caused fast change.
My other Sport (retired) has grown to a waitlist for competition. The sport has more expense with expendables.
(Action Shooting, 3-Gun) That sport went well with winter ski racing. I love speed and competition. technical and hands-on.
Also, check your large school systems many have off on Fridays and Mondays. My area. MD/NOVA has almost every weekend a 3 day.
I am blessed to wake up early, Ski 85% mid-week no crowds.
Manage by metrics.
IF vail is any good they know my profile.
Skis for 20+ years Income tripled.
25 days avg. Liberty Roundtop Wt. for top 3 visits
took off a year - must be injured, ah coming back from injury his visits are low but coming up to his average.
Most likely this season back to normal.
-------------------------------------------------
Data Science world
Zardog,
Yeah Dog Truth -
Snow sports is becoming more and more of a losing proposition dollar wise in the DMV. Akin to running a Gino's burger place back in the day in the Mid-Atlantic; too narrow-focused and no one wants it. Maybe someone can come up with a non-profit community-run ski hill like we have at Diamond Peak but I think Vail as any reasonably run biz will just scale down, take the P/L hit for tax reasons and eventually sell the near-worthless operations and perhaps profitable land for condos. Who can say? Liberty might just revert back to Ski Charnita? Have a little food truck near the golf course? Run it like an amusement park? Kill the back-side and ditch 50% of operations? It may be time to go back in history - maybe it all got too big and too corporate.
Crush I pay 26$ a day to ski Lib/RT/WT the price is fine. 20 days midweek no crowds.
I do not eat at the resort. I am Mr cheap.
48$ midweek for an epic day pass.
Vail and IKON did invest 2 billion in the industry and raised pay for staff.
My old sport 3-Gun is $100 min a day to play.
The hours of operation at Seven Springs, Hidden Valley, and Laurel Mountain have not been reduced, rolled back, truncated, or otherwise shortened for this season. I posted on the Support Laurel Mountain Facebook Group that hours would be reduced. On their official website, online pass purchases did not accept midweek payments at Laurel and Hidden Valley on non-holiday Mondays, seemingly verifying my usually credible source. Within 2 days, all three websites posted operating hours the same as last season.
Marketing starts in Sept. We are in mid-November.
Fun to see the updates at least now coming.
I see closing adjusted to the metrics of use. 12 hr days - no more 8 am to 10 pm (14 hr requires 2 shifts)
LMR Hours-
Skiing & Snowboarding
Monday - Tuesday: 9AM - 8PM
Wednesday - Thursday: 9AM - 9PM
Friday: 9AM - 10PM
Saturday: 8AM - 10PM
Sunday: 8AM - 8PM
Special Holiday Hours
Christmas Day 12/25: 8AM - 8PM
Christmas Week 12/26 - 12/28: 8AM - 9PM
New Years Weekend 12/29 - 12/31: 8AM - 10PM
New Years Day: 8AM - 8PM
MLK Day 01/15: 8AM - 8PM
President's Day 02/19: 8AM - 8PM
RMR
Lift Operational Hours for the Winter 2023-2024 Season:
Special Hours:
Whitetail ?????? nothing ---
Zardog
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