Maybe, maybe not in terms of crossover just because an Epic pass is good at all six locations.  Driving distance matters unless the destination is significantly different.  People from Pittsburgh and DC/NoVA are likely to drive to Timberline or Snowshoe if they want WV snow conditions and terrain.  Driving past Whitetail from DC to ski Laurel or the other western PA mountains, maybe not.  Would someone from Pittsburgh drive all the way to Whitetail?  Certainly wouldn't be worth driving to Liberty or Roundtop.

My sense is that neither Peak nor VR has convinced DC/Baltimore folks that it's worth driving up to Hunter for early season turns.

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

I thought I'd start a new thread for Western PA resorts. We are beginning to see a few threads about these resorts. Let's keep it all here. Maybe I should include other Vail-owned resorts like Whitetail, Liberty, and Roundtop? Perhaps there will be crossover now that they're all on one pass?

 I agree with marzNC that it’s probably better to cluster the Laurel Highlands resorts into one thread and then keep the former Snowtime resorts (Liberty, Whitetail, Roundtop) in another cluster.  These 2 clusters differ considerably in weather conditions and in the population bases, even though I ski both regions.

Woody

Ice is ice no matter where you go. Snowshoe is great for when there is powder and you have a mid week day off to go (or two) from the PGH area but it's QUITE the commitment if you have a family IMO.

Spring skiing Snowshoe is where it's at (as long as Cupp is open otherwise why bother)

I ended up not making it, as I had an issue.

I thought I knew where all my ski clothes were.  Apparently, I was mistaken.  I couldn't find my goggles, gloves, or ski bib. I had sunglasses so the goggles weren't a must, but the gloves were, especially the pants with the weather. My wife graciously ordered replacements for me but didn't they didn't get there until yesterday.

If I find the other stuff, I may just let my son use it as he wants to give skiing a try this season.

Friday was yucky in Johnstown with some hard rain in the afternoon.  Saturday was a nice day and probably would have had some nice spring conditions. Sunday had some rain showers mid-afternoon. Monday probably would have been nice.

I'm going to give it another shot the weekend of the 9th. Hopefully with some snowmaking and a cold snap things will improve.

Wonder how much it will melt off. I didn't see what they said their base was.

We're not going to get decent snowmaking weather again until next Wed at the earliest. Hopefully by then all 6 locals will be able to make snow by then.

Meanwhile, UT just got dumped with another 17" of snow - again. :jealous:

Laurel began snowmaking. https://www.facebook.com/LaurelMountainSki

Brett Cook, the new 7S/HV/LM GM spoke for at least 45 minutes at the recent Hidden Valley Foundation annual meeting. He mentioned some interesting items:

- A groomer was brought to Laurel Mountain from Mt. Snow to help with grooming operations. Brett indicated that equipment is shared between resorts and indicated that this offered them flexibility.

- The Techno Alpin software for operation of the automated fan guns at HV has been replaced with the latest version which includes alot of enhancement to improve snow quality.

-There will be no snow tubing at HV this year due to the poor condition of the old Outback barn that was used as the snow tubing lodge. It was also indicated that there were alot of injuries in the past due to the insufficient runout at teh bottom of the snow tubing slopes. He indicated that it needed to be reconfigured to make it more safe.

-They indicated that they are fully staffed for all three resorts. 

- Dave Runco, a former Nutting employee and now manager of hospitality operations also spoke. For HV restaurants, The Clocktower will be open Thurs, Friday, Sat. and Sunday; Glaciers will be open 7 days a week and the Sunrise/Sunset will be open Friday, Sat and Sunday.

-Brett indicated that it is their main goal for this season is to get things right at the three resorts.

snowsmith wrote:

Brett Cook, the new 7S/HV/LM GM spoke for at least 45 minutes at the recent Hidden Valley Foundation annual meeting. He mentioned some interesting items:

- A groomer was brought to Laurel Mountain from Mt. Snow to help with grooming operations. Brett indicated that equipment is shared between resorts and indicated that this offered them flexibility.

- The Techno Alpin software for operation of the automated fan guns at HV has been replaced with the latest version which includes alot of enhancement to improve snow quality.

-There will be no snow tubing at HV this year due to the poor condition of the old Outback barn that was used as the snow tubing lodge. It was also indicated that there were alot of injuries in the past due to the insufficient runout at teh bottom of the snow tubing slopes. He indicated that it needed to be reconfigured to make it more safe.

-They indicated that they are fully staffed for all three resorts. 

- Dave Runco, a former Nutting employee and now manager of hospitality operations also spoke. For HV restaurants, The Clocktower will be open Thurs, Friday, Sat. and Sunday; Glaciers will be open 7 days a week and the Sunrise/Sunset will be open Friday, Sat and Sunday.

-Brett indicated that it is their main goal for this season is to get things right at the three resorts.

It's good that HV is getting some attention.  Did you ask Brett about mowing the natural snow trails at Laurel? That would be a very easy way to begin to "get things right" at Laurel.

Finally got my first day in at Seven Springs. Conditions were about as good as machine made can be.

Wagner

The best snow and most vertical was found in the Alley. 

It looks like the North Face will be the next slope open. They've been making snow its entire length.

We got about a dozen runs in and skied all open terrain at least twice before we called it a day. Perhaps we will hit Timberline next week.

Supplement to the previous post:

The Front Side open runs were Wagner, Cortina to the lower third of Stowe, Phillip's, and Fawn. Santa's Beard and Artic blast terrain parks didn't have features built yet. The top of Stowe has a lot of snow, and snowmaking continued down to the new Avalanche quad, so that should open soon.

On the North Face, Lost Boy was open to the Alley terrain park, which was already built out.

Wonder if Lost Boy was open to the bottom. I didn't ski it.

I went on Saturday night but conditions were pretty bad.  Frozen and loose granular that was all cut up, and a little wet as it was rainy and foggy. Plus I was on "new" rock skis I hadn't skied yet.

They did the best they could given the crappy hand they've been dealt, but I wasn't feeling it.  Looking forward to Christmas week with hopefully more terrain and better snow.

 If it somehow turns out to be good this year, we need to support it. I have always suggested this would be the perfect place for Italian food....REAL pizza, pasta, chicken marsala, lasagna, etc. This would make for good family food. Now that Mauch is not standing in the way of spending a few nickles maybe it will exceed our low expectations. It is a nice space with a nice view. 

Grumpy dad wrote:

It's been a long time since I was at the clocktower.  I remember it being gloomy, the food served was cold and the beer warm.  It looks so inviting when you first walk up to it, but man do they have work to do there.  Id rather just eat a chipped ham sandwich in the car honestly.

That's actually a VERY good idea.

Home made sauces are not hard.  You can make them, keep them on warm and then put them away for 2 nights until you need to make another batch.

Boiling pasta is easy.

Salads are not hard to make and make sure the product coming in is fresh and stays fresh.

Breads - buy some damn frozen rolls and bake them for 8 minutes, or go all out and buy a system that proofs, hydrates, bakes the product to perfection every time.   The bread could be used as a base for other venues to have paninis. 

Frying up some chicken isnt difficult for a zesty white sauce chicken mozzarella pasta dish, or a red sauce chicken parm.

Meatballs are extremely easy to make/bake.  They do dry out easily though, so 3/4 bakes , 1/4 microwave. (yes I said microwave)

If they wanted to go further you could do more complicated stuff.  

snowsmith wrote:

 If it somehow turns out to be good this year, we need to support it. I have always suggested this would be the perfect place for Italian food....REAL pizza, pasta, chicken marsala, lasagna, etc. This would make for good family food. Now that Mauch is not standing in the way of spending a few nickles maybe it will exceed our low expectations. It is a nice space with a nice view. 

Grumpy dad wrote:

It's been a long time since I was at the clocktower.  I remember it being gloomy, the food served was cold and the beer warm.  It looks so inviting when you first walk up to it, but man do they have work to do there.  Id rather just eat a chipped ham sandwich in the car honestly.

It will be awhile before they can open North Face.  When you see whales almost as high as the bottom of your skis, that's when they can open it.  They are far off.

7 years ago (WOW I cant believe it has been that long!). 7S stopped allowing ski traffic on northface and did nothing but make snow.  This was late winter/heading into spring at some point.  Everything was open, not North Face.  They made whales as high as the snow machines could reach, would knock those down and made them again.  It was for an event called good company, a bunch of semi/pro riders met up at 7S after they closed to film this event.  The problem was, that spring came in with a ton of warm weather that year as well as rain.  Id say a very large portion of that snow was lost.  The plan was to have a top to bottom North Face park.  Skiing/riding those days of the filming werent so great.  Temps made alot of the snow feel like glue.  They pulled it off, but it was a shadow of what it was supposed to be.  All of that snow, more than Ive ever seen made on a single slope, and in the end they had a few larger features only.   

Northface takes a TON of snow to open, and mother nature is not cooperating . 

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Finally got my first day in at Seven Springs. Conditions were about as good as machine made can be.

Wagner

The best snow and most vertical was found in the Alley. 

It looks like the North Face will be the next slope open. They've been making snow its entire length.

 

We got about a dozen runs in and skied all open terrain at least twice before we called it a day. Perhaps we will hit Timberline next week.

Has anyone been to 7S since these pics were posted?  I'm curious how much more snow has been added on the North Face, since they have had some cold nights.  Shame they don't have cams over there.

I've got a trip planned to 7S over Christmas break (I'm nuts, I know) and I'm not so patiently waiting for this cold weather to show up.  They should have sustained snowmaking temps and I'm hoping to see them make the best of it.  I've never seen a mountain come close to the snowmaking output that they claim (mainly looking at you WT and 7S).  

Oh, and I'm JR, a long-time lurker, first time poster.

I skied there on Tuesday. The North Face  towers opposite to those in the picture were blowing until midday, same for the lower half of Lost Boy. They were getting ice accumulation today and tonight. Temps will be dropping. My guess is they will try to get North Face open for Christmas week.

Thanks for the intel.

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

I skied there on Tuesday. The North Face  towers opposite to those in the picture were blowing until midday, same for the lower half of Lost Boy. They were getting ice accumulation today and tonight. Temps will be dropping. My guess is they will try to get North Face open for Christmas week.

I posted this on the DCSki FB page, but for those who don't get there, BK just purchased and received 5 new low-E SMI Grizzly guns.  They appear to be on sleds. While more are needed, this should help fill in some gaps with and blow a lot of snow where deployed. Good to see a step in the right direction.

If they could pick up at least 5-10 more, they may be able to get a full slope covered quickly.

7S is back to blowing snow non the front side, including Tyrol.

I'll be up for thy holiday week starting tomorrow afternoon. If you want to ski some runs over the weekend, I'm up for it. I'll probably be at HV more often as i need to get back into shape.

I'm going to try tomorrow afternoon if the weather's better. Let me know.

Skied LM for the first time this season today. Limited terrain open which is understandable given the brief cold weather period leading up to the Holiday season. However, it was 16 degrees and not even one snow gun was operating. Snow had been made on Innsbrook but there did not seem to be an attempt to finish the job. Lower Wildcat had little snow made. The key to success of this resort is to get as much as possible of the limited terrain open. Opening the iconic Wildcat is important since that one trail is a big draw. The Wildcat Lounge was open and hopping. The website indicated it was closed on Mondays. The menu has a nice salad with fruit, a healthy choice often lacking when 7S owned the place. Why can't Vail put the menus on the website? Broadway and Upper Wildcat were open with nice coverage although Wildcat was icey.

The woman that was GM last year for 7S was very innovative in getting terrain open. She had snow made on Hegan's Cut and also on Old Innsbrook. This unique ski resort could use that kind of innovative approach to help overcome the snow making limitations. 

LM is such a beautiful place ( I feel like I am in Vermont) that I can overlook some limitations. But please Vail....make use of the cold weather for snow making when it's here. Turn on the snow guns, please, when it is 16 degrees.

 That is bull. Just look at the 7S webcams. Thet were making snow everywhere. One GM for 3 resorts may not work. Only the favorite child will get all the attention and we know who that is. 7S is a huge operation and needs a dedicated GM. There was no reason not to at least have the snow guns running in Innsbrook. 

imp wrote:

crew was told they could not make snow if it hit the chair, supposedly a Vail thing . find it hard to believe

 That is bull. Just look at the 7S webcams. Thet were making snow everywhere. One GM for 3 resorts may not work. Only the favorite child will get all the attention and we know who that is. 7S is a huge operation and needs a dedicated GM. There was no reason not to at least have the snow guns running in Innsbrook. 

imp wrote:

crew was told they could not make snow if it hit the chair, supposedly a Vail thing . find it hard to believe

7S was an absolute zoo by 930a.   At 11am, it's at uncomfortable levels for me to ride.  

Avalanche does appear to be open at this point though.

Any working cameras at hidden valley or laurel? I can’t believe Vail Corp wouldn’t have these up and running.

GM said HV's cameras won't be on until January due to issues with their ISP.

I was at HV last night and it was pretty good. No lines. Snow was good and barely icy.

Snowmaking was in progress on the North Summit and at the top of Sunset lift. There was tons of snow on Tracker. Was surprised to see some HKD lance guns on there.

Front side was well-covered. Cobra looked ready to open, as did Firebird.

Continental was probably the most fun run. Great shape and was just a nice, fun cruiser.

Sounds like I picked well last night.

 superguy wrote:

Laurel just posted on FB that they're having water pump issues like Whitetail is.

Brett Cook, GM for all three 7S resorts, posted that today. snowsmith would not have made his above post if we had known earlier. Also, I deleted a critical post I made here about the lack of snowmaking at Laurel last night after I learned there was a pump failure. I applaud the transparency but hope future announcements of this type come sooner. 

HV was pretty nuts today. Especially considering the amount of terrain open.  I'm guessing we might be getting some spillover from people fed up with the crowd at 7S.  

They also seem to be having some pretty major lift issues. With multiple extended breakdowns of different lifts.

After about one week of skiing at HV under Vail's ownership, the jury is very much out. Some good, including mostly pleasant employees. But plenty of bad.

wgo wrote:

Probably worth a separate thread, but how well are resorts able to test their snowmaking infrastructure off season? Is it the sort of situation where you can test some stuff but some problems wont be found until you run at scale in winter conditions?

 You won't find everything without running both compressed air and water at full volume.  For Laurel, they likely incur demand charges if they start their main pumps before December - early testing is usually done as early as the GM will let you fire up the equipment. This seems more like a failure in service, though, which is even harder to find ahead of time.

 I know they aren't going to preemptively announce not being open Fri, but if HV finds a way to reopen Friday, I will be amazed.  Knowing what the mountain and the weather forecast look like.  If it's going to be 60 it could at least be sunny.  <eye roll>

snowsmith wrote:

Laurel and HV closed Jan 4 and 5 for rain. They're supposed to re-open Jan 6. Lovely, east coast weather. It now seems this happens every year.

7S can put snow out pretty fast.  HV can do it fairly quickly as well as it's a lot smaller.  Their snow tends to be better quality as their system is newer and more homogenous. 

7S is pretty good about replacing snowmaking pipe, and they do some every year.  HV doesn't talk much about it.

LM's problem is they don't own a compressor - they lease one every season and get it around Dec 1. So it's hard to do any tests until they're about ready to blow snow.  And if there's an issue, any repairs could put them behind the 8 ball if the temps are right at the time.

I expect LM willl recover better than BK as their system is better. BK will likely struggle most of the year. They'll be lucky to get to Stembogan at the current rate.

It's certainly not their fault, the weather is the problem.  HV actually did manage to get back open Fri, which was impressive.  However both Fri and Sat sounded dangerous at best (I did not go, but heard that from multiple people I trust).

I opted not to go Sunday either and didn't hear from anyone who was there whether it was any better than the beginning of the weekend.

10 day forecast is better than it has been, but not great.

I was up there on the 30th and posted my pics to the DCSki FB page. It was starting to get thin then, with some brown snow and ground showing up.

Some runs that looked like they could have been ready to open earlier in the week, like Cobra, were pretty much all brown on Friday.

I'm off today (Monday) and 2 friends and I were planning to go to HV.  We were spooked off by the limited trail openings (6) and the fact that they have ZERO social media posts since Friday morning. 

The lack of a webcam is also frustrating.  We have no idea what things look like or what to expect.

One can't fault them for the lousy weather but for goodness sake, update your potential guests.

I hope I do not regret buying that 7 day local Epic pass ..... and dare I say things were better under Bobby Nothing.

GM said HV and Laurel are waiting for fiber to be pulled by the ISP to get the webcams up.  Why they waited until the season started is beyond me. Considering how little they did at all 3 resorts, you'd think they at least could have gotten that done, especially as they had webcams last year.,

Don't know why they couldn't have let those up until they had a replacement.

One of my friends was up there on Saturday as he bought some skis from someone up there.  He said it was looking sorry but they were blowing snow at least. Given the temps, I believe they likely are right now.

Like what?

imp wrote:

bad things are comming from Nuttings people they kept, in some departments they are still in charge.

It's called the Vail shit show. I must say my optimism has turned to frustration:

- The web cams stopped working in May of 2022. Thus 9 months would seem to be enough time to get them working, figure out they need fiber. The last time I skied at HV, Armstrong cable was there and appeared to be installing cable. There were no staff at the North Summit with the little guns checking passes. Probably because they need to run the internet cable. They did get 7S webcams working.

-They got the trail map up for 7S on the website the day before they opened. 

- The main restaurant at HV, The Clocktower, is not even mentioned on the website and there are no menus for any restaurant other than Helen's at 7s on the web. How many restaurants do you think would be successful without a web site. 

- The facebook page for HV was not updated for 10 days at one point. 

-They have one GM for all 3 resorts. At least tightwad Mauch had a GM for each resort. I really think this is the main problem. 7S is a huge resort operation. The GM has no time to devote to HV or LM.

I'll cut them a break regarding weather and snow making. However, they own 40 resorts. They should be experts in transition planning and operating a ski resort. I guess that's what happens when the CEO used to sell high fructose corn syrup (PEPSI Cola) and had no clue how to run a ski operation. 

Blue Don 1982 wrote:

I'm off today (Monday) and 2 friends and I were planning to go to HV.  We were spooked off by the limited trail openings (6) and the fact that they have ZERO social media posts since Friday morning. 

The lack of a webcam is also frustrating.  We have no idea what things look like or what to expect.

One can't fault them for the lousy weather but for goodness sake, update your potential guests.

I hope I do not regret buying that 7 day local Epic pass ..... and dare I say things were better under Bobby Nothing.

As a Hidden Valley homeowner with a vested interest in the ski operation's success, I must say that I am very concerned. Granted the weather has not cooperated, and we'll need to see how the remainder of the year unfolds from an operational perspective, but early indicators suggest we're getting exactly the treatment that a small hill deserves (under Vail's model, at least): little investment; the rationalization of resources (to the detriment of customer service); a global, one-approach-fits-all operating model with little local input/influence; and a general disregard for the unique needs, challenges and opportunities that come with regional/local mountains. As I've mentioned previously in this forum, when decisions flow from a sterile conference room in a generic office park off an interstate outside of Denver, well...

They hired a new social media girl that's supposed to be taking over for Abbey. I'm glad they at least kept Abbey as she was always great on social media. Her department was on the chopping block for "centralization" so I'm glad they got to keep their jobs.  That viral video with the falling skier behind her probably helped. :D

I agree that there was ample time to get webcams up.  There's no reason, IMO, that they couldn't have at least kept the original webcams up in the interim so we at least have some idea what conditions are out there.

Someone reported in today's FB post about the Clock Tower that several in their party had the chicken soup and all got sick. That was Sunday, and they notified the restaurant.  They still haven't been contacted by management.

7S should have its own GM.  Its too big to run as you guys are right, HV and LM are suffering.  I think they could get away with sharing a GM between LM and HV.  Sara did a good job at LM and would be cool to see her take over the places.

The thing that strikes me about Vail is they seem to have an overabundance of MBAs trying to run this company but not nearly enough people with experience or degrees in ski area management. It's hard to believe that they keep F'ing up at their resorts this badly year after year. This is more or less a normal year.  COVID really isn't a factor so they can't hide behind that.\

While I doubt Alterra and Boyne are problem free, you don't hear about the constant frustrations from their patrons as you do from Vail's. 

snowsmith wrote:

It's called the Vail shit show. I must say my optimism has turned to frustration:

- The web cams stopped working in May of 2022. Thus 9 months would seem to be enough time to get them working, figure out they need fiber. The last time I skied at HV, Armstrong cable was there and appeared to be installing cable. There were no staff at the North Summit with the little guns checking passes. Probably because they need to run the internet cable. They did get 7S webcams working.

-They got the trail map up for 7S on the website the day before they opened. 

- The main restaurant at HV, The Clocktower, is not even mentioned on the website and there are no menus for any restaurant other than Helen's at 7s on the web. How many restaurants do you think would be successful without a web site. 

- The facebook page for HV was not updated for 10 days at one point. 

-They have one GM for all 3 resorts. At least tightwad Mauch had a GM for each resort. I really think this is the main problem. 7S is a huge resort operation. The GM has no time to devote to HV or LM.

I'll cut them a break regarding weather and snow making. However, they own 40 resorts. They should be experts in transition planning and operating a ski resort. I guess that's what happens when the CEO used to sell high fructose corn syrup (PEPSI Cola) and had no clue how to run a ski operation. 

 

Blue Don 1982 wrote:

I'm off today (Monday) and 2 friends and I were planning to go to HV.  We were spooked off by the limited trail openings (6) and the fact that they have ZERO social media posts since Friday morning. 

The lack of a webcam is also frustrating.  We have no idea what things look like or what to expect.

One can't fault them for the lousy weather but for goodness sake, update your potential guests.

I hope I do not regret buying that 7 day local Epic pass ..... and dare I say things were better under Bobby Nothing.

snowsmith wrote:

- The main restaurant at HV, The Clocktower, is not even mentioned on the website and there are no menus for any restaurant other than Helen's at 7s on the web. How many restaurants do you think would be successful without a web site. 

Well, at least we know someone up high reads this thread (?). ;)

superguy wrote:

The thing that strikes me about Vail is they seem to have an overabundance of MBAs trying to run this company but not nearly enough people with experience or degrees in ski area management. It's hard to believe that they keep F'ing up at their resorts this badly year after year. This is more or less a normal year.  COVID really isn't a factor so they can't hide behind that.\

I think Brett Cook, the current GMx3 started in lift ops at Roundtop and moved up/around the 3 Snowtimes in operations. I see Vail curiously having a wide variety of experiences and educations running large operations. But, maybe the decisions and pacing is coming from CO?

My guess is he's been told to prioritize 7S over the other two. It's the money maker and the largest. The other 2 get what's left over, with HV getting the bigger part of that.

I wonder how much Vail corporate ties his hands.

Camp, as of 01/10/23, 8:34pm, there is STILL not mention of the main restaurant at HV on the HV Resort website. I can only conclude that the Vail IT staff is either incompetent or there is insufficient staff to handle the IT work for all 3 resorts. They did post something on Facebook that the restaurant is open. Still no menu for the Clocktower, Glaciers Pub (same with Wildcat Lounge at LM and Slopeside at 7S).  Check it out...

Dining | Hidden Valley PA (hiddenvalleyresort.com)

I'll note that during the Nutting/Mauch regime, they had a video almost everyday with their spokesperson talking about the conditions (more promotional rather than a snow report). 

camp wrote:

snowsmith wrote:

- The main restaurant at HV, The Clocktower, is not even mentioned on the website and there are no menus for any restaurant other than Helen's at 7s on the web. How many restaurants do you think would be successful without a web site. 

Well, at least we know someone up high reads this thread (?). ;)

I think a lot of the problems with LM and HV are coming from the mountain ops. Not the crews that are doing their best but from management. Brett Cook said that the handle tow at Laurel would be operational this season but it has not run yet due to lack of snowmaking. I was at LM on Sunday and the snowmakers were recovering Broadway. I don't know if they ever got snowmaking restarted on Lower or Innsbruck.

How much snow can LM make at a time?

Or HV for that matter?

Well, my buddy and I are going to risk the biscuit and head to 7S tomorrow morning.  I'm 2ish hours west of 7S and it is 46* and pouring rain here.  The forecast calls for rain to snow Fri AM. 

This is the absolute latest, first day on the slopes for both of us in 10+ years. Did I mention tomorrow if Friday the 13th, what could possibly go wrong?

Wish you the best in your travels, but there is no way I would want to be anywhere close to 7S or HV this MLK weekend with as little terrain as they currently show as open.  I have learned my lesson, and have no patience to pay $100+ day just to stand in line, not to mention all the other expense involved getting there.   If I was looking for that kind of abuse, I would take the family to Disney; No thank you to both.   

It boggles my mind how people move in herds on holidays.   Waiting another week would more time to recover and hopefully open more terrain, not to mention avoiding the "Holiday Rates" and crowd.    If you can get off from work, midweek is better still.   My .02, but your call.   

I just hope it's not too bad at 9 AM.  I have to leave by 2 PM at the very latest to pick up my grandson. 

Plan - ski 9 - 11, lunch 11 - 11.30, ski 1130 - 130, get outta dodge by 2 ...

Hopefully, we miss the kids in school. We should have gone to 7S on Monday but we were fixated on HV. 

Fingers crossed and I'll post an update if I get a minute on Friday.

Laurel Highlands wrote:

Wish you the best in your travels, but there is no way I would want to be anywhere close to 7S or HV this MLK weekend with as little terrain as they currently show as open.  I have learned my lesson, and have no patience to pay $100+ day just to stand in line, not to mention all the other expense involved getting there.   If I was looking for that kind of abuse, I would take the family to Disney; No thank you to both.   

It boggles my mind how people move in herds on holidays.   Waiting another week would more time to recover and hopefully open more terrain, not to mention avoiding the "Holiday Rates" and crowd.    If you can get off from work, midweek is better still.   My .02, but your call.   

I don't know that another week would be better. The forecast has temps all over the map with both rain and snow.

Monday's probably as good as we'll get for a while.

Our game plan was spot on. Arrived early, we were 3rd in line for the Polar Bear Express at 9 AM.  There were a half dozen people behind us. We skied up to 90% of the lifts and never waited more than a minute or two. We skied all the open trails until 11:30 then stopped at the Foggy Goggle for lunch.  It was not crowded but was picking up around noon.

Back out a little after noon and skied until 1:30.  Slopes were starting to get crowded but the lift lines were still short.  Parking lot was packed when I left with 2 people waiting for my spot. 

It was the first day out for all of us this season. 2 of us have Epic Day passes. I have the 7 day that cost me 280ish.  Today was well worth the 40 bucks I have in it. The other 2 paid (yikes) 115 for lift tickets. They knew they were not getting their money's worth but were happy to be on the slopes.

We are all former or current homeowners at SS.  We all agreed we need visit 7S more often .... but not on a Sat or Sunday.

Random Coverage Shots

1:30 PM Lift Line
 

Bonzski wrote:

I agree, if you can get out today DO IT!  I'd rather stand in a lift line than sit on a couch.

Ok, i noticed some of Vail's subtle "improvements" yesterday in the lodge.

Both are in between the cafeteria and the Goggle.

First, all the day lockets that used to be back there are gone, except for a few season rentals in the back. The lockers used to be a dollar per use, and was great for keeping shoes and a lunch in.

The real kicker is they put the expensive day lockera down there, starting at $10 minimum based on size (same ones they had at a WT) . Yes, they're good all day, but when you want from paying $1-2 a day to a minimum $10, that's a huge increase and money grab.

I'm sure the locker room in the lodge across from the ticket window at HV has been upgraded as well. 😡

Now that the coffee bar is there, they're now controlling the seating much more. We were sitting in the back of the coffee room and a guy comes around telling us that they close the area at 2pm. 2pm came and he kicked everyone out (nicely at least).

Seating is inadequate already in the lodge and they killed a bunch of it early for no real reason. Close the coffee bar, but leave the seating at least.

Hearing grumbling about Vail in the lift lines now too. Hard not to understand why.

Survived the holiday weekend madness at 7springs & Hidden Valley.  Saturday at 7springs was extremely foggy combined with the snowmaking, visibility was low.  I was pleasantly surprised with the skiing at Hidden, I got first tracks down the black there, and it skied like manmade powder from the snow guns!  Hope y'all enjoy!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVR3dNbWEtc

 I'm holding out until Monday with hopes that Ma Nature gets her act together and freshens things up a bit.

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

North lot at 7S. 34 with fog and drizzle visibility about 30 feet. Season pass holder. Should i ski by feel or wait for a sunny day? Prime parking 

Lower getting blower posted Saturday on the Support Laurel Mt. FB group facebook.com

 Any chance of Lower being open tomorrow?

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Lower getting blower posted Saturday on the Support Laurel Mt. FB group facebook.com

I think it will take till mid week at earlist

 Thank you -- trying to decide where to go tomorrow.

imp wrote:

I think it will take till mid week at earlist

I may know more this evening, will post if it is earlier

People always seem to focus on when Lower is going to open but frankly Innsbruck (and the rope tow) is just as important to the operation of Laurel since a relatively small percentage of people even ski on Lower Wildcat and it opens up easier terrain for new skiers.  I have always felt that Innsbruck gets more traffic when it is open.  

oddballstocks wrote:

Anyone know if they're blowing on Innsbruck?

 I like lower myself, but my wife and two of my kids are too young to do it.  They prefer Innsbruck.  My older two who can do lower don't have the stamina to do it repeatedly and get bored of Broadway.  Innsbruck is enough variety.

Until they get Innsbruck open we'll just continue to hit up Seven Springs.  This is true for a lot of families.

Patf1engineer wrote:

People always seem to focus on when Lower is going to open but frankly Innsbruck (and the rope tow) is just as important to the operation of Laurel since a relatively small percentage of people even ski on Lower Wildcat and it opens up easier terrain for new skiers.  I have always felt that Innsbruck gets more traffic when it is open.  

oddballstocks wrote:

Anyone know if they're blowing on Innsbruck?

I agree on Innsbrook. It gives a little variety to your way down the mountain. I alternate between Innsbrook, Broadway and Wildcat. And if they have some of the other trails open like Hegan's Cut and Old Innsbrook it makes for a great ski experience.  It's a small mountain, they should try to get as much of this terrain open as possible. The woman who was the GM last year was creative in making use of the limited portable guns they have to get some of the trails open like Hegan's Cut. If they can't make snow on Innsbrook and Lower at the same time, the snow making system needs work. Please do not 'cheap out' on snow making. 

Patf1engineer wrote:

People always seem to focus on when Lower is going to open but frankly Innsbruck (and the rope tow) is just as important to the operation of Laurel since a relatively small percentage of people even ski on Lower Wildcat and it opens up easier terrain for new skiers.  I have always felt that Innsbruck gets more traffic when it is open.  

oddballstocks wrote:

Anyone know if they're blowing on Innsbruck?

snowsmith wrote:

Best day of the ski year today with 4" of fresh at HV. Off to Vermont to ski Mt Snow, Okemo and Mt. Sunapee.

 With the snowmaking you see, what additional runs do you think will be open?

snowsmith wrote:

I agree on Innsbrook. It gives a little variety to your way down the mountain. I alternate between Innsbrook, Broadway and Wildcat. And if they have some of the other trails open like Hegan's Cut and Old Innsbrook it makes for a great ski experience.  It's a small mountain, they should try to get as much of this terrain open as possible. The woman who was the GM last year was creative in making use of the limited portable guns they have to get some of the trails open like Hegan's Cut. If they can't make snow on Innsbrook and Lower at the same time, the snow making system needs work. Please do not 'cheap out' on snow making.

 The state really needs to pony up some more to get the snowmaking up to snuff. They'll probably make more money too from increased visits. Half of the available runs constantly closed due to a lack of snowmaking is a big turn off to a lot of people - especially those who aren't familiar with LM. Doubtful those folks would even give it a chance over 7S.

I skied two hours at 7S this morning and then headed to HV.

LM and 7S could both use some TechnoAlpin guns. It's comical how much better the conditions are at HV.  If only there was terrain here.

 100% agree. With only a few trails open, I can't justify burning one of my Epic days + the extra drive time (for me) to visit LM. 

I see the need for me to upgrade my Epic 7 day pass to a Northeast Midweek Pass next year. That would allow me to bounce around the 3 WPA ski hills during one full day trip.   

superguy wrote:

 a lack of snowmaking is a big turn off to a lot of people - especially those who aren't familiar with LM. Doubtful those folks would even give it a chance over 7S.

When I am patrolling an early shift and all the "regular" trails are open I will hit Lower 4 or 5 times in a row first thing in the morning and then pretty much just cruise Innsbruck the rest of the day.  Frankly, the scenery of the valley is best from it, and it ends up being the longest run.

Its easy to say put snowmaking on everything, but the places I would most like to see would be Laurel Run to the slot and the lower portion of Dream Highway as well as the right side of lower where it widens out below the trees.  That gives another complete run down the mountain and gets people on Lower away from Deer Path.   

 LHC - I would think the snow making system could handle making snow on two runs, Wildcat and Innsbrook? It seems like that happened in the past?

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

I disagree with the idea that Innsbruck should see snowmaking before Lower Wildcat. Laurel has not been a stand-alone resort since it reopened, and now it doesn't even have its own season pass. There are lots of green and blue trails and slopes at HV and 7S, and those two lack true expert pitched terrain. This is the longest wait for Wildcat since Laurel reopened. Beginners and intermediates are well served by HV and 7S. Laurel has something the other two do not have, 500+ vertical feet of 60% grade. Now, if they would make snow from edge to edge and allow skier's far right to bump up...

Does the absence of the Laurel Tow from the map mean anything?

Has it run this season?

snowsmith wrote:

 LHC - I would think the snow making system could handle making snow on two runs, Wildcat and Innsbrook? It seems like that happened in the past?

I was wondering the same. It seemed they started to make snow on both before the pump failure. Imp is on the mountain almost every day. Perhaps he has some insight. 

 

camp wrote:

Does the absence of the Laurel Tow from the map mean anything?

Has it run this season?

The handle tow is still there, but that map has a certain accuracy. It has not run this season.

I highly recommend reading the forecast discussion posted by NWS State College during winter weather events.  They have a sneaky sense of humor.  From this AM:

9:30 AM Update: ALL reporting sites over Laurel Highlands (KJST, KAOO, KHMZ) went from 5-10sm visibility to 1/4SM SN+ in the past hour, and snow has just begun in State College after several hours of returns aloft. HREF prob of GT 1"/hour maximizes to 70-90 percent across the Central and South Central Mountains in the 15z to 18z timeframe, and we`re already seeing these snow rates observed with a report of 1" in 20 minutes in Garrett County MD last hour...and 2.75 inches in 90 minutes (since 8:45 AM) in Cumberland MD. Classic snow thump scenario for the area, esp central and south, with 1-2" per hour rates for 2 to 4 hours. If you are disappointed with what`s happening out your window right now, just wait an hour and get back to us.

I must say, I envy you retired guys (and gals) who can ski midweek. I looked at the webcams at HV and 7S today (3 PM ish) to see the weather compared to Snowshoe. (the Laurels look way better than SS) 

I saw 2 skiers at HV and no one in line for minutes at a time.  They have the whole place to themselves. 7S had more peeps but was not at all crowded.

Hopefully, I can join your exclusive club for the 23 - 24 ski season.

As of the evening of 26 Jan, things look brilliant at Hidden Valley - new natural snow, TechnoAlpin guns blazing and no dirt and mud! What a difference 1500 feet make in the mid-Atlantic!

HVdad wrote:

As of the evening of 26 Jan, things look brilliant at Hidden Valley - new natural snow, TechnoAlpin guns blazing and no dirt and mud! What a difference 1500 feet make in the mid-Atlantic!

 Totally. The Highlands have just much more opportunity to make snow compared to the Snowtime 3.

I'll be out there tomorrow night and Saturday. Looking forward to it. I hear Cobra will finally open on Saturday. Hope some other runs do too.

I'd be shocked at both.  Was there last night and it's just whatever dusting on the grass.  Guns weren't on.

Seems these last few years we're lucky if Giant Steps is open by the last week in February...

Only snow they were blowing was on Sunset, the race course slope, which looks open this AM.

I'm surprised they haven't started on Alpine Meadows and the Superpipe. That was over if their big bragging points.

I understand the weather hasn't cooperated, but with the helps we've had you'd think they would have at least started.

msprings wrote:

I was at 7S today. Sunset likely opening tomorrow. Slight chance Alpine for Saturday. Zero chance Giant Steps or Yodeler for this weekend 

 Have they even made snow on Alpine?

On another note, HV has one thing that hasn't been Vailed: the dollar locker room near the ski shop. Good place to dump some equipment or a lunch without spending an arm and a leg like 7S.

Laurel's Lower Wildcat was opened yesterday. Innsbruck is next for snowmaking. I haven't been yet. Next opportunity is Tuesday. Laurel is closed Mondays.

 I did it a few years ago and I regretted it. I shoylda gone to 7S for same drive time and money. Hunter sucks balls

marzNC wrote:

Maybe, maybe not in terms of crossover just because an Epic pass is good at all six locations.  Driving distance matters unless the destination is significantly different.  People from Pittsburgh and DC/NoVA are likely to drive to Timberline or Snowshoe if they want WV snow conditions and terrain.  Driving past Whitetail from DC to ski Laurel or the other western PA mountains, maybe not.  Would someone from Pittsburgh drive all the way to Whitetail?  Certainly wouldn't be worth driving to Liberty or Roundtop.

My sense is that neither Peak nor VR has convinced DC/Baltimore folks that it's worth driving up to Hunter for early season turns.

Growing up in the Highlands, I know there weren't too many people heading down to Whitetail back in the day. A few maybe to try it out, but no one going on a regular basis. The only other resort on people's radar was BK.

Much more likely to see people driving up to the Highlands vs driving to WT. I doubt that has changed much, and certainly hasn't among my friends that still live up there at least.

Hunter was always my HS ski club's big trip, but they always got a screaming deal since my ski club advisor's son worked in management there.

marzNC wrote:

Maybe, maybe not in terms of crossover just because an Epic pass is good at all six locations.  Driving distance matters unless the destination is significantly different.  People from Pittsburgh and DC/NoVA are likely to drive to Timberline or Snowshoe if they want WV snow conditions and terrain.  Driving past Whitetail from DC to ski Laurel or the other western PA mountains, maybe not.  Would someone from Pittsburgh drive all the way to Whitetail?  Certainly wouldn't be worth driving to Liberty or Roundtop.

My sense is that neither Peak nor VR has convinced DC/Baltimore folks that it's worth driving up to Hunter for early season turns.

Skied HV fri-sat-sun.  Weather & conditions were wonderful on Saturday.  Glad they opened Cobra, Glad they reopened the Clocktower bar and tables.  Dining room closed off though.  It was packed.  Servers a little overwhelmed in Glaciers, but it seems that the ski operations, etc are finding their groove finally.  The rain moved in on Sunday, but it cut out in the early afternoon so it was a decent experience from 1-3pm.  What slopes they do have open ski great, but wish they could get more of the North Summit slopes open.  

needawax wrote:

Skied HV fri-sat-sun.  Weather & conditions were wonderful on Saturday.  Glad they opened Cobra, Glad they reopened the Clocktower bar and tables.  Dining room closed off though.  It was packed.  Servers a little overwhelmed in Glaciers, but it seems that the ski operations, etc are finding their groove finally.  The rain moved in on Sunday, but it cut out in the early afternoon so it was a decent experience from 1-3pm.  What slopes they do have open ski great, but wish they could get more of the North Summit slopes open.  

Voyager looks like it just needs a groom and Barracuda looked decent. Hope they get those open this week!

Yeah, the 7S and LM snowmaking issues have nothing to do with the brand of snowgun (HKD has built very impressive automated systems at Holiday Valley NY, for example) and reflects more on the age of the resorts in question. The newer manual HKDs at Laurel do fairly well, but they can't start and stop and adjust as well as a technically inferior gun at HV if that HV gun has an auto valve. (The 2010-2020 era TA guns are objectively lower output than comparable HKDs based on grid measurements.)

Does LM merit a $15k/gun overhaul to add TechnoAlpin towers on core routes? Probably not - to my mind that kind of money could be better spent on an $8k/gun semiauto Klik upgrade from HKD, which removes connecting and disconnecting hoses but doesn't require any electronics at the gun. Likewise at 7S getting more trails equipped with modern HKDs - that use even less air than the originals that were developed in-house - can make a pretty big difference. The old gooseneck guns were state of the art when they were built, but they're 30 years old in some cases. Expanding the Klik system already present is better than going with an inferior TA stick.

Ask any controls engineer if they'd rather support a Siemens PLC based system or an in-house controller. TA does not use very many industry standard components, HKD uses widely available controls components wherever they can.

Innsbruck opened 1pm. all snowmaking areas open

 Finally!!! Just in time for a week with the temps in the 50s...ugh.

imp wrote:

Innsbruck opened 1pm. all snowmaking areas open

Article in the Post Gazette about the snow making challenges at 7s/HV and LM. Also talks about perceived failures by Vail Resorts.

Good weather means bad times for area ski resorts | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette