New York Magazine on 2020-2021 ski season
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wfyurasko - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 07/27/2014
158 posts

How Ski Resorts Hope to Operate Under COVID-19 This Winter

“Lowest risk is coming down the mountain,” he said. “Even if you bump into somebody, crash into someone, it’s fine.” (At least from a COVID-19 perspective, if not an orthopedic one.)

How about riding a chairlift?

“It’s probably fine ”” you share someone’s space for five minutes, but it’s outside, it’s usually windy, I think you can probably get away with it,” he said. “If you want to put family members together, or have people go up by themselves, that’s probably marginally safer but I don’t think it’s a huge deal.”

- New York Magazine

It's a long way off. I'm not getting my hopes up much.

Denis - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 07/12/2004
2,171 posts

Thanks for mention of Ikon's adventure assurance program.  Details;-


https://www.ikonpass.com/en/adventure-assurance?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paidsearch&utm_content=aa103143366122-cc438197358619&utm_keyword=ikon+adventure+assurance&utm_campaign=IP_Brand-Ong-ECM-SW_SEA_B_LW_EXM&gclid=CjwKCAjwr7X4BRA4EiwAUXjbtz5P2dApHwebuoKLXNHeYfNaaBd0kW9SGHdb7kYppvjEDtyJ-fcq6RoCICoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds 

the NY mag article correctly identifies the big risks, IMHO.  I WILL NOT BE GOING INDOORS TO ANY LODGES, RESTAURANTS, OR BARS IN SKI COUNTRY THIS SEASON.

assuming a good recovery from the hip replacement, I'll be doing light backcountry with my daughter and grandsons, who have taken to backcountry in a big way.  I'll be tail end Charlie on the skin up, stop when tired or ready, and either wait for the big girls and boys to come down from the heights, or ski down on my own on milder terrain.  This eliminates the concern about going alone which I did as recently as 2 years ago.

marzNC - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 12/10/2008
2,231 posts

I'm watching the Australian and New Zealand ski reason with great interest.  Vail owns Perisher, Hotham and Falls Creek in Australia.  Hotham and Falls had to close after only being open for a few days because of a major outbreak of COVID-19 in Melbourne.  Perisher and neighboring Threbdo got a 2-3 feet dump a few days ago.  The season is fully started as of this week.  A lot was learned about how day ticketing and reservations for season pass holders can be used to limit capacity.  Hard to say if it will work out, but much will be learned one way or another.

Smaller ski areas like Timberline or Massanutten in the mid-Atlantic may well have advantages over the destination resorts like Camelback or Stowe.

Massanutten and Bryce are open for mountain biking.  They will have a chance to learn from that experience over the summer.

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

marzNC wrote:

I'm watching the Australian and New Zealand ski reason with great interest.  Vail owns Perisher, Hotham and Falls Creek in Australia.  Hotham and Falls had to close after only being open for a few days because of a major outbreak of COVID-19 in Melbourne.  Perisher and neighboring Threbdo got a 2-3 feet dump a few days ago.  The season is fully started as of this week.  A lot was learned about how day ticketing and reservations for season pass holders can be used to limit capacity.  Hard to say if it will work out, but much will be learned one way or another.

Smaller ski areas like Timberline or Massanutten in the mid-Atlantic may well have advantages over the destination resorts like Camelback or Stowe.

Massanutten and Bryce are open for mountain biking.  They will have a chance to learn from that experience over the summer.

Wow Timberline is smaller then camelback? I see camelback has less vertical then Whitetail resort and Timberline, does this count non skiing activity to make a ski area seem bigger?

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wfyurasko - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 07/27/2014
158 posts

Camelback claims something like 33 trails and it is not as exagarated as some ski areas. I was my primary destination for a number of years for my one ski trip a season.

I last went back in 2018 and it was really packed. Given the vertical you mentioned, I'm probably done with it because for that much travel, I can go places with more vertical and less crowded conditions. Camelback pretty well run, but I seem to have progressed as a skier enough that its not as exciting.

When I posted this article on Facebook, one of my friends from that trip specifically metnioned in the Camelback crowds again.

Blue Don 1982 - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 01/13/2008
1,432 posts

I'm trying to imagine Snowshoe on a weekend.  Dining reduced to 50% capacity in those already small spaces.  How are they going to social distance the Ballhooter lift line?   Bus service to Silver Creek?

I've been trying to get my friends to ski more on weekdays and the covid situation may be the tipping point for some.  My ski circle is made up of middle aged folks, tenured in their careers with plenty of vacation hours to burn.  This may be the year of skiing on Mon and Tues.

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

wfyurasko wrote:

Camelback claims something like 33 trails and it is not as exagarated as some ski areas. I was my primary destination for a number of years for my one ski trip a season.

I last went back in 2018 and it was really packed. Given the vertical you mentioned, I'm probably done with it because for that much travel, I can go places with more vertical and less crowded conditions. Camelback pretty well run, but I seem to have progressed as a skier enough that its not as exciting.

When I posted this article on Facebook, one of my friends from that trip specifically metnioned in the Camelback crowds again.

Camelback website says 800ft vert longest run only 1 mile (quantity over quality) its more like a ridge then a mountain the top of Camelback is over 1100 feet below the BASE  of Timberline. which has.a 2 mile long trail, like a golf course you can't have every hole look the same, Blue Knob is good in Pa for lots of Vert also 

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

Denis wrote:

Thanks for mention of Ikon's adventure assurance program.  Details;-


https://www.ikonpass.com/en/adventure-assurance?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paidsearch&utm_content=aa103143366122-cc438197358619&utm_keyword=ikon+adventure+assurance&utm_campaign=IP_Brand-Ong-ECM-SW_SEA_B_LW_EXM&gclid=CjwKCAjwr7X4BRA4EiwAUXjbtz5P2dApHwebuoKLXNHeYfNaaBd0kW9SGHdb7kYppvjEDtyJ-fcq6RoCICoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds 

the NY mag article correctly identifies the big risks, IMHO.  I WILL NOT BE GOING INDOORS TO ANY LODGES, RESTAURANTS, OR BARS IN SKI COUNTRY THIS SEASON.

assuming a good recovery from the hip replacement, I'll be doing light backcountry with my daughter and grandsons, who have taken to backcountry in a big way.  I'll be tail end Charlie on the skin up, stop when tired or ready, and either wait for the big girls and boys to come down from the heights, or ski down on my own on milder terrain.  This eliminates the concern about going alone which I did as recently as 2 years ago.

If you lock into a mega pass now and don't use it this season you can put that towards the next season's mega pass but you have no idea what the new price would be or what resorts are still available ; seems like a risk that gets pushed bye the mega pass people, they have a lot around, like Disney 

Laurel Hill Crazie - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 08/16/2004
1,767 posts

Vermont wrote:

Wow Timberline is smaller then camelback? I see camelback has less vertical then Whitetail resort and Timberline, does this count non skiing activity to make a ski area seem bigger?

I'm pretty sure that ski resort size is measured in acres of skiing not vertical drop or number of trails. I believe that Seven Springs is PA's largest resort with 250 acres of snowmaking trails plus at least one trail and two skiable chairlift lines that are skiable with natural snow not to mention several glades. There are also large, cleared non-snowmaking slopes that are not named and not on the trail map. If the snow lasts these non-snowmaking areas bump up. I would guess that this would easily push Seven Springs skiable acreage to 300 acres. Seven Springs skis on two faces. The Front Side has about 300 to 400 vertical feet and the North Face has 750 vertical feet. There is also another pocket between the two that contains a few slopes and trails in addition to their huge expert level terrain park and half pipe.

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Wow Timberline is smaller then camelback? I see camelback has less vertical then Whitetail resort and Timberline, does this count non skiing activity to make a ski area seem bigger?

I'm pretty sure that ski resort size is measured in acres of skiing not vertical drop or number of trails. I believe that Seven Springs is PA's largest resort with 250 acres of snowmaking trails plus at least one trail and two skiable chairlift lines that are skiable with natural snow not to mention several glades. There are also large, cleared non-snowmaking slopes that are not named and not on the trail map. If the snow lasts these non-snowmaking areas bump up. I would guess that this would easily push Seven Springs skiable acreage to 300 acres. Seven Springs skis on two faces. The Front Side has about 300 to 400 vertical feet and the North Face has 750 vertical feet. There is also another pocket between the two that contains a few slopes and trails in addition to their huge expert level terrain park and half pipe.

Wow good that people get other perspectives yours sounds good from sales person trying to sell tickets, I have taught so many people for so long including ski school directors kids, other instructors, owner of ski areas kid's etc for a reason, you get better with more vertical who wants to ski shorter hills? Explain that to general public who don't understand the whole picture, 

at such lower elevations Camelback thaws and freezes, that won't happen as much as higher elevations like Timberline, 

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

Vermont wrote:

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Wow Timberline is smaller then camelback? I see camelback has less vertical then Whitetail resort and Timberline, does this count non skiing activity to make a ski area seem bigger?

I'm pretty sure that ski resort size is measured in acres of skiing not vertical drop or number of trails. I believe that Seven Springs is PA's largest resort with 250 acres of snowmaking trails plus at least one trail and two skiable chairlift lines that are skiable with natural snow not to mention several glades. There are also large, cleared non-snowmaking slopes that are not named and not on the trail map. If the snow lasts these non-snowmaking areas bump up. I would guess that this would easily push Seven Springs skiable acreage to 300 acres. Seven Springs skis on two faces. The Front Side has about 300 to 400 vertical feet and the North Face has 750 vertical feet. There is also another pocket between the two that contains a few slopes and trails in addition to their huge expert level terrain park and half pipe.

Wow good that people get other perspectives yours sounds good from sales person trying to sell tickets, I have taught so many people for so long including ski school directors kids, other instructors, owner of ski areas kid's etc for a reason, you get better with more vertical who wants to ski shorter hills? Explain that to general public who don't understand the whole picture, 

at such lower elevations Camelback thaws and freezes, that won't happen as much as higher elevations like Timberline, 

You don't ski horizontally, a mountain that is 1000 ft vert, I would not tell someone it's smaller then a 800 vertical mountain, people trust that I stear them to the best experience, sorry when you use acers that's for the big resorts like Killington where you don't worry about tiny runs 

marzNC - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 12/10/2008
2,231 posts

Vermont wrote:

You don't ski horizontally, a mountain that is 1000 ft vert, I would not tell someone it's smaller then a 800 vertical mountain, people trust that I stear them to the best experience, sorry when you use acers that's for the big resorts like Killington where you don't worry about tiny runs 

When someone is getting started, or is barely an intermediate, extra vertical at a small mountain is not necessarily a plus.  If there is only one lift that has gree and easy blue terrain they can handle, and those trails are crowded, what's available as black terrain is not relevant to their experience.  Have been there as a parent of a kid who started at age 4.  Took a few years before she was good enough to ski on the upper mountain at Massanutten.

What Massanutten and Camelback have in common is that they are full-blown resorts.  Meaning there is a fair amount to do besides ski/board.  Also plenty of lodging that is relatively close to the base of the lifts.

Timberline is very popular with advanced skiers in the Pittsburgh or DC area because there can actually be bump runs.  You want find that at Snowshoe, which is obviously a much bigger resort.  There are also slopeside houses for rent at Timberline.  With decent lifts, should be a really fun place.

Laurel Hill Crazie - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 08/16/2004
1,767 posts

Vermont wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Wow Timberline is smaller then camelback? I see camelback has less vertical then Whitetail resort and Timberline, does this count non skiing activity to make a ski area seem bigger?

I'm pretty sure that ski resort size is measured in acres of skiing not vertical drop or number of trails. I believe that Seven Springs is PA's largest resort with 250 acres of snowmaking trails plus at least one trail and two skiable chairlift lines that are skiable with natural snow not to mention several glades. There are also large, cleared non-snowmaking slopes that are not named and not on the trail map. If the snow lasts these non-snowmaking areas bump up. I would guess that this would easily push Seven Springs skiable acreage to 300 acres. Seven Springs skis on two faces. The Front Side has about 300 to 400 vertical feet and the North Face has 750 vertical feet. There is also another pocket between the two that contains a few slopes and trails in addition to their huge expert level terrain park and half pipe.

Wow good that people get other perspectives yours sounds good from sales person trying to sell tickets, I have taught so many people for so long including ski school directors kids, other instructors, owner of ski areas kid's etc for a reason, you get better with more vertical who wants to ski shorter hills? Explain that to general public who don't understand the whole picture, 

at such lower elevations Camelback thaws and freezes, that won't happen as much as higher elevations like Timberline, 

You don't ski horizontally, a mountain that is 1000 ft vert, I would not tell someone it's smaller then a 800 vertical mountain, people trust that I stear them to the best experience, sorry when you use acers that's for the big resorts like Killington where you don't worry about tiny runs 

I'm not trying to sell anything and I don't appreciate the implication. You expressed the surprise that Camelback was "bigger" than Timberline. I added my observations that the size of ski resorts is measured by acres not vertical feet and then I gave an honest representation of Seven Springs' terrain. By your reasoning, Seven Springs is a better mountain because it is 150 feet taller than Suicide Six in Vermont. If you ever skied both you would know that is not the case. Also, you would assume that Snowshoe is a better place for an aspiring skier than Timberline because Snowshoe beats Timberline by 500 vertical feet and I don't think that is the case at all. Vertical feet alone does not a good skier make, quality of terrain is far more important IMHO. So what makes a better skier once one learns the basics and is deep into intermediate level skiing, a 2000 foot vertical slope that averages 18 degree grade or a 600 foot vertical slope that averages about 30 degrees? I know a ski instructor would argue you can learn expert level skiing on any slope no matter the angle of tilt and I have no reason to doubt that but what I do know is that a 30 degree slope will reveal your weak technique faster than a less steep slope no matter the height or length. I haven't even touched on skier density as a factor.

I'm surprised that a person with as much experience as you would put such high stock in a measure that can be so deceptive. Back in the 1980s I would ski Killington almost exclusively. Hey, 3050 vertical feet it's the biggest and tallest in Vermont at that time and probably still is. Then a friend took me to Stowe, about 700 vertical feet "smaller" than Killington. I've been back to Killington once since then. The next year I had my first visit to Vail over 1000 vertical feet bigger than Stowe yet I found myself comparing Vail to Stowe and liking the terrain at Stowe much better. 

For the record, I seldom ski at Seven Springs.

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Wow Timberline is smaller then camelback? I see camelback has less vertical then Whitetail resort and Timberline, does this count non skiing activity to make a ski area seem bigger?

I'm pretty sure that ski resort size is measured in acres of skiing not vertical drop or number of trails. I believe that Seven Springs is PA's largest resort with 250 acres of snowmaking trails plus at least one trail and two skiable chairlift lines that are skiable with natural snow not to mention several glades. There are also large, cleared non-snowmaking slopes that are not named and not on the trail map. If the snow lasts these non-snowmaking areas bump up. I would guess that this would easily push Seven Springs skiable acreage to 300 acres. Seven Springs skis on two faces. The Front Side has about 300 to 400 vertical feet and the North Face has 750 vertical feet. There is also another pocket between the two that contains a few slopes and trails in addition to their huge expert level terrain park and half pipe.

Wow good that people get other perspectives yours sounds good from sales person trying to sell tickets, I have taught so many people for so long including ski school directors kids, other instructors, owner of ski areas kid's etc for a reason, you get better with more vertical who wants to ski shorter hills? Explain that to general public who don't understand the whole picture, 

at such lower elevations Camelback thaws and freezes, that won't happen as much as higher elevations like Timberline, 

You don't ski horizontally, a mountain that is 1000 ft vert, I would not tell someone it's smaller then a 800 vertical mountain, people trust that I stear them to the best experience, sorry when you use acers that's for the big resorts like Killington where you don't worry about tiny runs 

I'm not trying to sell anything and I don't appreciate the implication. You expressed the surprise that Camelback was "bigger" than Timberline. I added my observations that the size of ski resorts is measured by acres not vertical feet and then I gave an honest representation of Seven Springs' terrain. By your reasoning, Seven Springs is a better mountain because it is 150 feet taller than Suicide Six in Vermont. If you ever skied both you would know that is not the case. Also, you would assume that Snowshoe is a better place for an aspiring skier than Timberline because Snowshoe beats Timberline by 500 vertical feet and I don't think that is the case at all. Vertical feet alone does not a good skier make, quality of terrain is far more important IMHO. So what makes a better skier once one learns the basics and is deep into intermediate level skiing, a 2000 foot vertical slope that averages 18 degree grade or a 600 foot vertical slope that averages about 30 degrees? I know a ski instructor would argue you can learn expert level skiing on any slope no matter the angle of tilt and I have no reason to doubt that but what I do know is that a 30 degree slope will reveal your weak technique faster than a less steep slope no matter the height or length. I haven't even touched on skier density as a factor.

I'm surprised that a person with as much experience as you would put such high stock in a measure that can be so deceptive. Back in the 1980s I would ski Killington almost exclusively. Hey, 3050 vertical feet it's the biggest and tallest in Vermont at that time and probably still is. Then a friend took me to Stowe, about 700 vertical feet "smaller" than Killington. I've been back to Killington once since then. The next year I had my first visit to Vail over 1000 vertical feet bigger than Stowe yet I found myself comparing Vail to Stowe and liking the terrain at Stowe much better. 

For the record, I seldom ski at Seven Springs.

I was talking only about someone saying Timberline is a small ski area and coupled Camelback in with the likes of Stowe.that  is information that could stear a newbiie into ice conditions because elevation wasn't explained , and get someone away from buying Timbline pass, they think oh it's smaller then Camelback but don't explain why Camelback may have much worse conditions because of such lower elevation AND only 1 mile long trail at Camelback , compared to 2 mile long trail,at Timberline a novice will enjoy the 2 mile trail  .    But I tell it like it is, the skiing experience , you compared the bigger resorts acers when i said the bigger places do not matter , conditions , conditions, they can have 100 trails but if not high enough elevation to make snow or get natural snow then it really doesn't matter does it? Now suicide six can make snow when Seven Springs can't why because of location and elevation 

what is the elevation of Seven Springs vs suicide six? The average new skier doesn't get that

look at Wikipedia ski area size and it gives vertical and elevation before

i am talking about giving people the information to make the right choice you compare Killington to other bigger areas I said that doesn't work with small areas and yet you used a big area fir comparison, that is why it's good for people to get other opinions 

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

Vermont wrote:

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Wow Timberline is smaller then camelback? I see camelback has less vertical then Whitetail resort and Timberline, does this count non skiing activity to make a ski area seem bigger?

I'm pretty sure that ski resort size is measured in acres of skiing not vertical drop or number of trails. I believe that Seven Springs is PA's largest resort with 250 acres of snowmaking trails plus at least one trail and two skiable chairlift lines that are skiable with natural snow not to mention several glades. There are also large, cleared non-snowmaking slopes that are not named and not on the trail map. If the snow lasts these non-snowmaking areas bump up. I would guess that this would easily push Seven Springs skiable acreage to 300 acres. Seven Springs skis on two faces. The Front Side has about 300 to 400 vertical feet and the North Face has 750 vertical feet. There is also another pocket between the two that contains a few slopes and trails in addition to their huge expert level terrain park and half pipe.

Wow good that people get other perspectives yours sounds good from sales person trying to sell tickets, I have taught so many people for so long including ski school directors kids, other instructors, owner of ski areas kid's etc for a reason, you get better with more vertical who wants to ski shorter hills? Explain that to general public who don't understand the whole picture, 

at such lower elevations Camelback thaws and freezes, that won't happen as much as higher elevations like Timberline, 

You don't ski horizontally, a mountain that is 1000 ft vert, I would not tell someone it's smaller then a 800 vertical mountain, people trust that I stear them to the best experience, sorry when you use acers that's for the big resorts like Killington where you don't worry about tiny runs 

I'm not trying to sell anything and I don't appreciate the implication. You expressed the surprise that Camelback was "bigger" than Timberline. I added my observations that the size of ski resorts is measured by acres not vertical feet and then I gave an honest representation of Seven Springs' terrain. By your reasoning, Seven Springs is a better mountain because it is 150 feet taller than Suicide Six in Vermont. If you ever skied both you would know that is not the case. Also, you would assume that Snowshoe is a better place for an aspiring skier than Timberline because Snowshoe beats Timberline by 500 vertical feet and I don't think that is the case at all. Vertical feet alone does not a good skier make, quality of terrain is far more important IMHO. So what makes a better skier once one learns the basics and is deep into intermediate level skiing, a 2000 foot vertical slope that averages 18 degree grade or a 600 foot vertical slope that averages about 30 degrees? I know a ski instructor would argue you can learn expert level skiing on any slope no matter the angle of tilt and I have no reason to doubt that but what I do know is that a 30 degree slope will reveal your weak technique faster than a less steep slope no matter the height or length. I haven't even touched on skier density as a factor.

I'm surprised that a person with as much experience as you would put such high stock in a measure that can be so deceptive. Back in the 1980s I would ski Killington almost exclusively. Hey, 3050 vertical feet it's the biggest and tallest in Vermont at that time and probably still is. Then a friend took me to Stowe, about 700 vertical feet "smaller" than Killington. I've been back to Killington once since then. The next year I had my first visit to Vail over 1000 vertical feet bigger than Stowe yet I found myself comparing Vail to Stowe and liking the terrain at Stowe much better. 

For the record, I seldom ski at Seven Springs.

I was talking only about someone saying Timberline is a small ski area and coupled Camelback in with the likes of Stowe.that  is information that could stear a newbiie into ice conditions because elevation wasn't explained , and get someone away from buying Timbline pass, they think oh it's smaller then Camelback but don't explain why Camelback may have much worse conditions because of such lower elevation AND only 1 mile long trail at Camelback , compared to 2 mile long trail,at Timberline a novice will enjoy the 2 mile trail  .    But I tell it like it is, the skiing experience , you compared the bigger resorts acers when i said the bigger places do not matter , conditions , conditions, they can have 100 trails but if not high enough elevation to make snow or get natural snow then it really doesn't matter does it? Now suicide six can make snow when Seven Springs can't why because of location and elevation 

what is the elevation of Seven Springs vs suicide six? The average new skier doesn't get that

look at Wikipedia ski area size and it gives vertical and elevation before

i am talking about giving people the information to make the right choice you compare Killington to other bigger areas I said that doesn't work with small areas and yet you used a big area fir comparison, that is why it's good for people to get other opinions 

The steeper the trail the easier it is to make turns, try making turns on an almost flat trail see how that goes, that separates the people who know what they are doing, like I said it's good for people to get information from someone who is trusted in the industry for getting people to ski better and enjoy the best conditions 

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

Vermont wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermont wrote:

Wow Timberline is smaller then camelback? I see camelback has less vertical then Whitetail resort and Timberline, does this count non skiing activity to make a ski area seem bigger?

I'm pretty sure that ski resort size is measured in acres of skiing not vertical drop or number of trails. I believe that Seven Springs is PA's largest resort with 250 acres of snowmaking trails plus at least one trail and two skiable chairlift lines that are skiable with natural snow not to mention several glades. There are also large, cleared non-snowmaking slopes that are not named and not on the trail map. If the snow lasts these non-snowmaking areas bump up. I would guess that this would easily push Seven Springs skiable acreage to 300 acres. Seven Springs skis on two faces. The Front Side has about 300 to 400 vertical feet and the North Face has 750 vertical feet. There is also another pocket between the two that contains a few slopes and trails in addition to their huge expert level terrain park and half pipe.

Wow good that people get other perspectives yours sounds good from sales person trying to sell tickets, I have taught so many people for so long including ski school directors kids, other instructors, owner of ski areas kid's etc for a reason, you get better with more vertical who wants to ski shorter hills? Explain that to general public who don't understand the whole picture, 

at such lower elevations Camelback thaws and freezes, that won't happen as much as higher elevations like Timberline, 

You don't ski horizontally, a mountain that is 1000 ft vert, I would not tell someone it's smaller then a 800 vertical mountain, people trust that I stear them to the best experience, sorry when you use acers that's for the big resorts like Killington where you don't worry about tiny runs 

I'm not trying to sell anything and I don't appreciate the implication. You expressed the surprise that Camelback was "bigger" than Timberline. I added my observations that the size of ski resorts is measured by acres not vertical feet and then I gave an honest representation of Seven Springs' terrain. By your reasoning, Seven Springs is a better mountain because it is 150 feet taller than Suicide Six in Vermont. If you ever skied both you would know that is not the case. Also, you would assume that Snowshoe is a better place for an aspiring skier than Timberline because Snowshoe beats Timberline by 500 vertical feet and I don't think that is the case at all. Vertical feet alone does not a good skier make, quality of terrain is far more important IMHO. So what makes a better skier once one learns the basics and is deep into intermediate level skiing, a 2000 foot vertical slope that averages 18 degree grade or a 600 foot vertical slope that averages about 30 degrees? I know a ski instructor would argue you can learn expert level skiing on any slope no matter the angle of tilt and I have no reason to doubt that but what I do know is that a 30 degree slope will reveal your weak technique faster than a less steep slope no matter the height or length. I haven't even touched on skier density as a factor.

I'm surprised that a person with as much experience as you would put such high stock in a measure that can be so deceptive. Back in the 1980s I would ski Killington almost exclusively. Hey, 3050 vertical feet it's the biggest and tallest in Vermont at that time and probably still is. Then a friend took me to Stowe, about 700 vertical feet "smaller" than Killington. I've been back to Killington once since then. The next year I had my first visit to Vail over 1000 vertical feet bigger than Stowe yet I found myself comparing Vail to Stowe and liking the terrain at Stowe much better. 

For the record, I seldom ski at Seven Springs.

I was talking only about someone saying Timberline is a small ski area and coupled Camelback in with the likes of Stowe.that  is information that could stear a newbiie into ice conditions because elevation wasn't explained , and get someone away from buying Timbline pass, they think oh it's smaller then Camelback but don't explain why Camelback may have much worse conditions because of such lower elevation AND only 1 mile long trail at Camelback , compared to 2 mile long trail,at Timberline a novice will enjoy the 2 mile trail  .    But I tell it like it is, the skiing experience , you compared the bigger resorts acers when i said the bigger places do not matter , conditions , conditions, they can have 100 trails but if not high enough elevation to make snow or get natural snow then it really doesn't matter does it? Now suicide six can make snow when Seven Springs can't why because of location and elevation 

what is the elevation of Seven Springs vs suicide six? The average new skier doesn't get that

look at Wikipedia ski area size and it gives vertical and elevation before

i am talking about giving people the information to make the right choice you compare Killington to other bigger areas I said that doesn't work with small areas and yet you used a big area fir comparison, that is why it's good for people to get other opinions 

The steeper the trail the easier it is to make turns, try making turns on an almost flat trail see how that goes, that separates the people who know what they are doing, like I said it's good for people to get information from someone who is trusted in the industry for getting people to ski better and enjoy the best conditions 

 

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

I taught snowboarding as well and that is even a better example of how it's easier on a steeper slope, snowboarders avoid flatter slopes because it's harder and more tiresome trying to stay up, so I take people on flatter slopes and see how they do, do they come to a stop from being static or are the dynamic and actually generate speed, that is how I won a race a snowshoe skiers and boarders together, I know no snowboarder is going to generate more speed then I could so I did the race on skis and won easily, 

Bonzski
4 months ago
Member since 10/21/2015
511 posts

Most beginners I know don't give a flying funk about vertical and acreage....they just want to get down the hill safely and enjoy it.  Wide trails and no crowds are what matter.

Back to the topic at hand.  The lift loading adjustment at Snowshoe this summer is working well.  The primary change is you only ride with your group.  So a single can't share a chair with a double (bike racks only hold 3, so there's no reason for 4 riders). They will load 3 bikes but then 2 people on one chair and the single on the next (bike racks are every share chair).  Skiing could do something similar, maybe allow 2 singles to share a chair.  Regardless, there will be an impact to wait times but then I expect fewer people will be skiing.

Laurel Hill Crazie - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 08/16/2004
1,767 posts

Vermonter, thank you for making your points clearer. I assumed from your post that vertical drop was your most important criteria and addressed that issue after you quoted me and misconstrued my post. My only point was vertical drop is not the only criteria of ski resort size and that a more accurate measure of "big" is skiable acres. In my first post in this thread I never made any indications of which ski resort would be "better" by either vertical drop or acreage. 

My apologies to the readers for this thread drift.

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermonter, thank you for making your points clearer. I assumed from your post that vertical drop was your most important criteria and addressed that issue after you quoted me and misconstrued my post. My only point was vertical drop is not the only criteria of ski resort size and that a more accurate measure of "big" is skiable acres. In my first post in this thread I never made any indications of which ski resort would be "better" by either vertical drop or acreage. 

My apologies to the readers for this thread drift.

It's all good , every see's things in a different way, all opinions go for learning new things, I don't no anything about taking a road trip out west but I am getting.my hopes up in doing one next season out west thanks to hearing from people who do it, around here nobody would think of that. 
After moving down here the 1st ski area I checked out was Snowshoe I was so impressed I went to the ski school director to tell him ( Tom, or Bob, it's been a while) how impressed I was with Snowshoe he got my girlfriend and I a courtesy guided tour of the mountain including cutting the lift line's on a Saturday, something you don't see done often, so even though working there  was not feasible for me I skied there after such a great introduction.

we are all ambassadors to the sport, I like to ski the trees and try and find people who can and help develop the interest in others

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

Vermont wrote:

Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:

Vermonter, thank you for making your points clearer. I assumed from your post that vertical drop was your most important criteria and addressed that issue after you quoted me and misconstrued my post. My only point was vertical drop is not the only criteria of ski resort size and that a more accurate measure of "big" is skiable acres. In my first post in this thread I never made any indications of which ski resort would be "better" by either vertical drop or acreage. 

My apologies to the readers for this thread drift.

It's all good , every see's things in a different way, all opinions go for learning new things, I don't no anything about taking a road trip out west but I am getting.my hopes up in doing one next season out west thanks to hearing from people who do it, around here nobody would think of that. 
After moving down here the 1st ski area I checked out was Snowshoe I was so impressed I went to the ski school director to tell him ( Tom, or Bob, it's been a while) how impressed I was with Snowshoe he got my girlfriend and I a courtesy guided tour of the mountain including cutting the lift line's on a Saturday, something you don't see done often, so even though working there  was not feasible for me I skied there after such a great introduction.

we are all ambassadors to the sport, I like to ski the trees and try and find people who can and help develop the interest in others

Stowe is amazing , as a kid friends and I used to stay in the near bye Vermont state ski dorms for only 15$ night we walked to Stowe ; we used the flannel blankets on the chairlift ,  no doubt I can teach someone to ski well on a short trail, but nothing beats repitition , the chairlift is often the biggest hurdle in a skier/boarders learning experience, the more trail per chairlift ride the better, I know some instructors will walk students up hill and walk them all around, for me they are paying for a chairlift then make the nbest use of it as you can, don't make them tired walking, 

marzNC - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 12/10/2008
2,231 posts

Vermont wrote:

 I don't no anything about taking a road trip out west but I am getting.my hopes up in doing one next season out west thanks to hearing from people who do it, around here nobody would think of that. 

Do you mean drive from the DC area to ski in Colorado or Utah?  JimK and his son did that during Christmas vacations for several years.  One reason that VK could become a Level 3 ski instructor at a relatively young age growing up in DC far away from big mountains.

I have reservations for a trip out west in Feb.  Meeting up with a small group of friends.  We've been doing ski trips together for a while.  While I expect to fly, I haven't ruled out driving if necessary.  Helps to be retired.  My most regular ski buddy (old bachelor, schoolmate) lives in Albuquerque, so he always drives.  Even if we are skiing 1000 miles away from his house.

marzNC - DCSki Supporter
4 months ago
Member since 12/10/2008
2,231 posts

Bonzski wrote:

Most beginners I know don't give a flying funk about vertical and acreage....they just want to get down the hill safely and enjoy it.  Wide trails and no crowds are what matter.

Back to the topic at hand.  The lift loading adjustment at Snowshoe this summer is working well.  The primary change is you only ride with your group.  So a single can't share a chair with a double (bike racks only hold 3, so there's no reason for 4 riders). They will load 3 bikes but then 2 people on one chair and the single on the next (bike racks are every share chair).  Skiing could do something similar, maybe allow 2 singles to share a chair.  Regardless, there will be an impact to wait times but then I expect fewer people will be skiing.

What's happening in Australia right now as they get into mid-season is that quads are 1-2 groups, not just 1-2 people.  Either a group of 4 who are in the same family, or a group of 2 who know each other plus a single so that there can be one empty spot.  Anyone who wants to ride alone can do so.

The Timberline lifts on Mt. Hood are running the usual summer hours.  This article is a July trip report.

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/07/13/skiing-during-covid-19-world/

Vermont
4 months ago
Member since 12/26/2019
133 posts

Bonzski wrote:

Most beginners I know don't give a flying funk about vertical and acreage....they just want to get down the hill safely and enjoy it.  Wide trails and no crowds are what matter.

Back to the topic at hand.  The lift loading adjustment at Snowshoe this summer is working well.  The primary change is you only ride with your group.  So a single can't share a chair with a double (bike racks only hold 3, so there's no reason for 4 riders). They will load 3 bikes but then 2 people on one chair and the single on the next (bike racks are every share chair).  Skiing could do something similar, maybe allow 2 singles to share a chair.  Regardless, there will be an impact to wait times but then I expect fewer 

your right most beginners would not understand that but this site is where they can look for information.

Mark Rotellini , director of the Ski Training Center there was a lot kinder to a stranger on a busy Saturday , 1st time I ever met him,  seeing your reply really makes me appreciate people like Mark

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