should snowboarders be banned from some trails?
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14 users
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myrto
October 5, 2004
Member since 10/4/2001
259 posts
Would you like to see certain trails available to skiers only? Would you like to see certain trails only open for boarders. What would be the benefits or downside of exclusionary trails?
Lets hear your opinions.
Cliff
October 5, 2004
Member since 09/21/2004
22 posts
Man your Freaking CRAZY!!!!!!! If you dont want to ride with snowboarders take yourself to Alta or Mad River gleen.
To say snowboarders should be banned is insane talk.
Its like saying minoritys shouldnt have the same rights as Whites. If it wasnt for snowboarders skiers wouldnt have shape skis, twin tips or the "new school" ski freestyle movement. Have you missed the news??? snowboarding is the fastest growing winter sport and at some mountains Stratton for example skiers are the minority. Its attitudes like yours that i despise!

you shouldnt be banned from a trail because your on skis or a snowboard! you should be banned if it is above your riding ability

SeaRide
October 5, 2004
Member since 03/11/2004
237 posts
I think I better reserve my opinions on your type of posts.
JohnL
October 5, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Wouldn't work in the Mid-Atlantic where there are two few trails to go around for everybody. I also don't think selective trail bans would work anywhere; at least with skier-only mountains you have the outta sight, outta mind factor. Boarders know they can't go to MRG, etc. and don't bother making the trip to the mountain. (I realize this is a small consolation to many boarders.) However, if you are standing on top of the mountain watching boarders (or skiers) go down a trail and you are not allowed to follow, reality hits you in the face.

<skier bias>I would like to ban all snowboarders who insist on sliding sideways down tight and steep runs, scraping all the snow off the trail. This is not an issue in the Mid-Atlantic since the runs are not steep enough and man-made doesn't scrape too well, but I've seen way too many tree runs turn into bobsled courses. If you can't make turns on it, don't head down it.</skier bias>
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shearer519
October 5, 2004
Member since 07/12/2004
149 posts
This brings up a really interesting debate between snowboarding and Skiing. I have been a skier all my life but last year I dedicated myself to learning how to snowboard. I never wanted to become an expert snowboarder per say but I wanted to get enough skill and experience so that I could handle the majority of slopes around here. I signed up for a six week class offered by Penn State that got us 2.5 hour lessons at Tussey Mountain. By the time I finished I had about 10 days of snowboarding in and I could handle anything Tussey could throw at me (except ice). Now that I have experience in both areas I feel I have gained a greater appreciation of the challenges of both. A lot of people complain about snowboarders sitting around a lot to put their bindings on. What I found was that unless the slope was perfectly flat my board would start to move and I would lose my balance so the only way to put the board on was to sit down. Also I found that unless you are very good it is sometimes very hard to stop a board and stay in one place without having to sit down. There is a lot of complaining about boarders ruining the snow surface but in my experience I haven't come across that. A beginner skier is just as likely to scrape the surface off as a beginner boarder. Once a boarder gets comfy with linking turns down steep slopes I think they do no more damage then a skier does. As for limiting skiers and boarders from different slopes I don't think it really makes any sense. If boarding is allowed on a mountain then it should be allowed on the entire mountain. Now there is ways a ski area can "encourage" the type of skier on a particular slope. Not many people on boards are going to be found on moguls. Glades also seam to keep the boarders away. Parks and Pipes tend to scare away the skiers although now with twin tips skies this is becoming less true. I don't see a problem with a ski area deciding if it will be all skiing or all boarding or a mix of the two. If that area can remain profitable and carve a niche out from doing that then more power to them. If you want to ski or board there then you just have to learn to meet the requirement. Finally a lot of people say that you should never get on a slope that is above your ability level. I don't completely agree with that statement. I have always learned by going down something slightly above what I know i can do, struggling down it, and then get right back on the lift and doing it again. Eventual when I do this enough I get good enough to move on to something more difficult. I always want to keep myself on edge. Although when doing this technique make sure to use common sense if you only have done greens before don't go flying down a double black. The key for me was to always go just one step ahead not 20.
myrto
October 5, 2004
Member since 10/4/2001
259 posts
It was only meant to stimulate conversation. Not to chastise on or the other. Without skiers there would be no snowboarding, and without the injection of passion that snowboarding has brought to snow sports a lot more resorts would be out of business. Like Men and Woman they do have there differences, they sometimes annoy each other, but ultimately need and love each other
comprex
October 5, 2004
Member since 04/11/2003
1,326 posts
Quote:

<skier bias>I would like to ban all snowboarders who insist on sliding sideways down tight and steep runs, scraping all the snow off the trail. If you can't make turns on it, don't head down it.</skier bias>




<skier bias>Heel-side traversing snowboarders have a blind spot the size of the entire hill. Just like smokers, they don't realise how bad they really are</skier bias>

<pedant>Umm, Cliff, I have a pair of mid-70's Elan Tempests with twin tips. You'll also humor me when I point out that, unlike "race", snowgear is not genetic. Banning snowboarding or banning skiing is a ban on behavior just like a ban on booger-picking or graffiti spraying.</pedant>
JR
October 5, 2004
Member since 01/1/2003
276 posts
There's a difference in challenging yourself down a hill that is above your skill level and just snowplowing down it (boarding or skiing) just to say you did a black diamond on your first day or whatever. Anyone can plow down any groomed trail. If you aren't actually trying to link turns down the hill you shouldn't be on it. I don't care if you fall 20 times if you're trying. My favorite slope to watch people on is Upper Ballhooter at Snowshoe. Everyone sees it from the lift and every newbie has to try it the first day. So what you wind up with is tons of skiers and boarders just plowing straight down the middle. Thats why I think most steep slopes should be ungroomed most of the time. It'd be a lot more fun to watch plowers fly over a mogul and bust their butt and they wouldn't try that slope again until they were better.
JohnL
October 5, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Quote:

<skier bias>Heel-side traversing snowboarders have a blind spot the size of the entire hill. Just like smokers, they don't realise how bad they really are</skier bias>




Good safety point! Stay out of the blind spot of truckers on the highway, and stay out of the blind spot of snowboarders on the hill.
Crush
October 5, 2004
Member since 03/21/2004
994 posts
in one word - no! I am a skier but snowboard a little. In fact some folks say that when I ski my lines are like snowboarders because I like to carve big gs or super g turns. I actually enjoy following riders and figure-8ing 'em. In fact what bugs me are mostly other skiers. I don't like it when 10 riders are all sitting in a line across the hill but that happens as much as getting snaked by a family of 5 all in a line making wedge turns across a blue-black hill.

If you don't want riders, go to Deer Valley or Alta.
Roger Z
October 5, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Man who opened this can of worms?

Ok, here's my two cents: I'm glad there's a couple ski resorts where there's no snowboarding. Now that that's out there, as a rule I don't mind sharing the slopes with snowboarders on the remainder of the mountains. What really agitates me is teenagers who think they own the damn mountain. The fact that the illiterate pikers have gravitated into snowboarding (for the most part) isn't a reflection on snowboarders in general-- it's a subset that other people use to slam the entire group. Ever seen a snowboarder coming down a powder field? It's truly a beautiful sight.

And if I hear ONE MORE SUB-PAR SKIER whine about how it's SNOWBOARDERS who are sliding the snow off the runs while their idea of turning is shifting sideways onto their ski until the friction-- some fifty feet down the slope-- finally compels their momentum sideways into the trees, I'm gonna scream. If there's anyone reading this board who thinks it's snowboarders fault that east coast hills are so icy, I've got one thought for you: Stowe coined the term "bulletproof" in the 1950s when the owner of the hill fired a round into the surface and the bullet penetrated less than two inches. Ice was with us long before Jake Burton was. If you don't like it, quit skiing, or move.

Oh, and while we're on grievances-- DON'T BRING YOUR SIX YEAR OLD ONTO THE MOGUL FIELD WHEN THEY JUST GRADUATED FROM SKI LESSONS TWO DAYS AGO. If your spouse drops the kid off on you for the afternoon, stay the hell off the expert slopes with them unless they really are an expert kid. There was this seven year old that some idiot father dragged onto Bold Decision when it was chalk full of moguls and she was right in the frickin' middle of the trail, wailing, about how she just couldn't do it. And she kept crying until she'd fall over and yard sale, and then dad would get mad at her. SUCK IT UP AND SKI WITH YOUR KID WHERE SHE BELONGS, DUFUS.

Pant pant pant... ok I'll step off that pre-season soap box. For the record, I'm a skier, straight edge, as old school as they come.
Crush
October 5, 2004
Member since 03/21/2004
994 posts
TY Roger Z! That wuz perfect!
Crush
October 5, 2004
Member since 03/21/2004
994 posts
In fact ... once in 2001 I was racing at 7 Springs in the GS and this A$$H0le mom and her kid wandered right into the bottom half of the course ... and stopped ... duuuuh... to get her bearings. Needless to say this totally wrecked my time .. people were screaming "get off the course!!!!" and ... duuuuhhh ummmmmm whaaaat? errrrrr hummmmm? I had to blow out just to avoid miz dork and her offspring.

... 'nuff said!
canaanman
October 5, 2004
Member since 03/5/2004
358 posts
One day canaanman will open-up a snowboarder's only resort. The whole mountain will be a play area. We won't have to fight with the skiers and their silly poles. There will be nothing but positive vibage on the hill, no skiers to cut us off in the park, no snowbladers to go big and break their legs, no skiers making moguls and skiing them until they're bulletproof.

I hate to point this out, but the troughs in the glades are caused by skiers. Seriously, how many snowboarders do you see in the wods... glade riding is as scary as it gets, being in a prone position, the vital organs easy to contact anything... its a proven fact that boarders dont play in the trees very often.

And if you think a heelside-turning boarder is hard to get around, don't get me started with skiers. You like to make quick turns right infront of us, drop your poles loading and unloading the lifts, and frequently try to 'carve', a thing really reserved for the boarders across the whole trail.

I would seriously hike up to the top of Snowbird to hit the Alta connector and bomb-in on all of you. Headlines would read, "Shradical Boarder Gives 20 Heart Attacks".
JR
October 5, 2004
Member since 01/1/2003
276 posts
Its a proven fact that I'm a boarder, I boarded Cherry Bowl Glades twice last year nearly all day, I wasn't the only boarder, I didn't break a vital organ, and it was FUN AS HECK. I also remember glade boarding at the bottom of Cupp, Devils Drop, and just about every tree run in Timberline you could board and had a blast. Its also a proven fact that I board moguls on Lower Shay, Choker, Widowmaker, Face, Main Street, The Drop, etc and have plenty of fun.
andy
October 5, 2004
Member since 03/6/2004
175 posts
In the words of the great rodney King..."can't we all just get along?" Its all good! Boxing has been described as the sweet science..well if done right both skiing & boarding are a beautiful thing to watch & perform.
snowcone
October 6, 2004
Member since 09/27/2002
589 posts
No ... I would just like boarders (and skiers) to learn to friggin ride better! Take a lesson!

I think maybe Myrto should get off her boarder kick if only for one REALLY good reason. Up until a few years ago skiing was dying and many resorts were closing down or just barely hanging on. As the skiers greyed into baby boomers there were relatively few new skiers taking there places. Then along came snow boarding and totally revitalized the skiing industry. If there had been no boarders, Myrto probably wouldn't have any place to ski locally. The only places that would have remained would have been the big destination resorts like Vail and Squaw. ...and who can afford to ski there every weekend?. We skiers have benefited in many ways from boarding; from the new state-of-the-art composites in our skis and pole to the space-aged warm fabrics in our jackets. One has only to look at the newest jacket/pant fashions for skiing, especially for women. They no longer are the form hugging lycra jobs that were consider de riguer for women skiers; they are the looser, more comfortable gear based on the 'baggy' boarder duds. Frankly I much prefer being warm and comfortable skiing than freezing my buns off in some fashion statement.
JohnL
October 6, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Crush,

Do you provide a Crush to English translation program? Errrrrrr. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? LOL at some of your posts, keep 'em coming.

This part I did understand:
Quote:

In fact some folks say that when I ski my lines are like snowboarders because I like to carve big gs or super g turns. I actually enjoy following riders and figure-8ing 'em.




What do you ski on so you can do that? I'm guessing big mountain 85mm+ ? If you can do that on 74mm mid-fats, I'm impressed. If you can do that through a mogul field, I'm even more impressed. Super G turns down Great Scott? Sign up with TGR!
JohnL
October 6, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Quote:

glade riding is as scary as it gets, being in a prone position, the vital organs easy to contact anything...



And doing tricks or getting big air in a terrain park is not?

Quote:

Seriously, how many snowboarders do you see in the wods... its a proven fact that boarders dont play in the trees very often.




Well, I admit I'm getting older and my vision is not as good as it used to be. But I can still tell the difference between:
  • A man and a woman
  • A skier and a snowboarder

I hate to disprove your *fact*, but at least one third of the sliders I come across in the woods are boarders.

Quote:

I hate to point this out, but the troughs in the glades are caused by skiers.




Well, my tracking skills haven't gone downhill as much as my vision. So when I come across a snow gulley in the woods as wide as a snowboard is long, with snow piled up on both sides it's caused by a skier? Not to mention the tell-tale boarder droppings nearby and the boarder caught in the tree 50 yards downhill?
warren
October 6, 2004
Member since 07/31/2003
485 posts
I'd like to echo what Roger said. I really don't care what equipment you're riding. I've had the misfortune of sharing the slopes with some real idiots sliding on several different types of equipment To dispute the boarder generalization, one of my favorite Utah resorts is Brighton. This is a real laid back, more local hill. It is been known as a boarder paradise. I've been there on some major powder days (2 feet of fresh! ) and I was outnumbered 10 to 1 by boarders. All in all, they were really cool. It really comes down to the person sliding vs the equipment.

Peace
-Warren-
Roger Z
October 6, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
"You like to make quick turns right infront of us, drop your poles loading and unloading the lifts, and frequently try to 'carve', a thing really reserved for the boarders across the whole trail."

Yes, that's right, I like every other skier on earth love dropping poles right before I load onto the chair. There's nothing more refreshing than going up a chairlift missing important pieces of equipment. Heck, to be honest, if those bindings weren't so damn hard to work us skiers would just leave our skis hanging around the bottom of the lift too. It's so annoying, having to actually wear your skis as opposed to the next lift rider bringing them up for you.

Oh, and as far as turning quickly in front of snowboarders: RIGHT. Yep, that's me again. I see a snowboarder who's huckin' down the mountain and think-- "hey, I'm gonna make a quick turn right in front of him so he can run right into me! Who needs vertebrate anyway?"

Anyway, if you'd check the skier/rider responsbility code, you'd see that it's your responsibility to avoid people downhill from you, not theirs to avoid you. That seven year old, while she was annoying, it would have been 100% my fault if I had run into her. And... if you don't know your own ability to turn or keep a safe distance from those skiing or riding below you, it's your fault if you run into them. Sometimes, believe it or not, people have perfectly legitimate reasons for making quick turns.

This is like people complaining about other drivers who brake too quickly. Why they're braking could be perfectly legitimate... it's your responsibility not to tailgate them in the first place, and your fault for creating a dangerous driving environment, not theirs. Ditto if you're skiing or riding too close to someone in front of you.
Crush
October 6, 2004
Member since 03/21/2004
994 posts
LOL JohnL - Though I take out my little slalom skis off trail sometimes when there is no fresh (they are sooooo easy to flip around in the steeps) I still like to arc 'em big but it is more fun to tighten up and lay over. But yeah I use Dynastar Inspired by Nobis they are 89MM wide with very little sidecut and 178 CM they make real big arcs when you get them to carve on trails like they would make maybe 7 turns down Limelight at Whitetail in a pure carve. But on Great Scott or other tram stuff? Well it's hop turns down the narrow part (it is always sort of chewed up) till you get to the narrow part where the rocks close you out so I put one hope turn just above it it and then point 'em straight down to go through the neck and **of course** you start going 1,000 MPH like Nobis (he admitted that in the first TGR film he accidentally pointed 'em a little to striaght down so he just hung on and thus a career was born LOL) and just hang on as best you can!!!! So there is nothing to be impressed by and I think I suck in moguls.

As for translations:

"duuuuhhh" - That thing ahead of me does not look like a gate

"ummmmmm" - My speed suite is chaffing

"whaaaat?" - The things that don't look like gates in front of me just moved

"errrrrr" - I just made a bad turn because I'm a space cadet and I am distracted

"hummmmm?" - Oh s&^t wow bummer those not-gate things are people .... oh nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

LOL
Freeskier112389
October 7, 2004
Member since 10/7/2004
14 posts
Banning boarders from some runs and skier from others is crazy!! i'am a skier and i ski wiht boarders alot and there really cool. Also if i was skiing and there was a trail only for boarders and it looked really good then i well be shooting donw that trail like a man on fire and hauling ass back into the left line before the patrol catches me.
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