tory mountain or timberline
15 posts
10 users
2k+ views
myrto
June 24, 2004
Member since 10/4/2001
259 posts
With cosideration given to the pros and cons of the developement of a new mountain. Would you rather Tory mountain fully developed or Timberline get the investors needed to realize its' full potential
andy
June 25, 2004
Member since 03/6/2004
175 posts
We really need to know the full potential of tory to make the vote..don't we?
johnfmh - DCSki Columnist
June 26, 2004
Member since 07/18/2001
1,914 posts
We need both mountains fully realized. To quote Bill Swain, the communications manager of Sugarloaf,

"Ski resorts are a little like fast food restaurants in the sense that having another one right next door is good for both. Bringing more people to the area to ski and ride is a good thing. Hey, I work here but I still like to ski at other mountains. We all do."

http://skiing.alpinezone.com/articles/challenge/response.htm?resort=sugarloaf

There's precious little ski terrain in this area given the size of the local populations, which are still growing. Therefore, we really need both resorts badly. My main concern is how Timberline is going to handle increased traffic in the next few years as new stretches of the road open with its current lift system. The sooner the Wisp group acts on Tory, the better. Also, they should definitely pull the trigger on this thing while interest rates are relatively low and demand for second homes, high.
tommo
June 26, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
303 posts
I agree with John. As to the Poll, I voted to build Tory, because I believe that will ultimately lead to improvements at Timberline as well. The irony at TL is that they really just need to replace one lift with a modern, fixed grip quad. That single and, as resorts go, very modest improvement would fundamentally change the experience and value of going there.

Tory, on the other hand, may be viable for creating a "real" resort within the mid-atlantic region. I do wonder, though, how they can address the H20 issue - they would need to build a fairly substantial impound to be able to cover 1200' of slopes. But at this point, I think we should be very, very happy that a snow sports aware company has purhased the land rather than a pure timber company or other extraction industry who would just as soon tear up the mountain and dump it in the valley. That would be a shame and tragically ironic for the ludites who oppose reasonable recreational development.
myrto
June 29, 2004
Member since 10/4/2001
259 posts
These are the results so far. Pretty close!


Poll Results: tory mountain or timberline (17 votes.)
tory mountain or timberline
Choose 1
Tory fully developed 47% (8)
Timberline's potential realized 53% (9)
Norsk
June 29, 2004
Member since 05/13/2003
315 posts
Didn't I read in one of John's posts last season that T-line has sold off some of its most appealing expansion terrain to be developed as homesites? If so, perhaps it's not possible to realize Timberline's full potential anymore. That's the appealing thing about Tory -- no development yet, so nothing limiting the scope of the terrain.
jimmy
June 29, 2004
Member since 03/5/2004
2,650 posts
Timberline has a lot of room between the Silver Queen? lift and Salamander trail; nice area for glades and trail betw lift and the Drop and Cherry bowl is a big area.

Regarding lifts, how about they remove the thunderstuck mid station, install a quad (high speed please)to replace the triple and put the triple over by the trophy homes to service the mid-station and terrain park?

Five months to go
Jimmy
myrto
July 2, 2004
Member since 10/4/2001
259 posts
Latest results


Tory fully developed 44% (8)
Timberline's potential realized 56% (10)
Mountain Masher
September 28, 2004
Member since 03/13/2004
541 posts
As I understand it, the purchase of Tory Mt. involves a "timber harvest operation" first, then the possible development of a ski area. The logging idea doesn't make sense, because the trails have already been cut (in the late 1970's). Granted, there's now some pretty good sized young trees, brush and saplings on those slopes, but nowhere near large enough to have any timber value. So, the planned timber harvest operation means that (rather than clearing off the young growth from the ski slopes) different, much older trees are going to be cut. That doesn't make any sense at all if they are serious about developing a ski area. They should be focusing on 2 things: clearing off the ski slopes and developing a water supply pond or lake. Taking the large timber off of the areas surrounding and between the ski slopes is a bad idea; besides destroying much of the natural beauty, they're removing a much needed wind block. Believe me, I have first hand knowledge of the damage a for-profit logging operation can do to a ski area. As we all know, Blue Knob tried this on a grand scale, then the skiing suffered, business fell off and things have never been the same at BK again. So, when I heard about the planned timber harvest (logging operation) at Tory, my heart sank because I knew that nothing good (other than easy money into someone's pocket) is likely to come out of it.
bawalker
September 29, 2004
Member since 12/1/2003
1,547 posts
I personally am wondering if Tory Mountain is being 'logged' in the form of cutting new trails? We all ahve seen that Terraserver map of Tory and by all accounts it's great, but just a few runs that are visible. But I wonder if they aren't doing a very precise, very controlled logging in order to make newly designed trails for all experience levels? That would at least allow them to fully optimize the entire 1200 acres for skiing all over and in the end less for development...? Does anyone have a chopper or plane that we could fly over Tory Mtn and get some pictures?

I am inclined to think that the way this group has managed Wisp that they didn't just buy the mountain to log it and be done with it. Not with precut trails and some buildings in place. I think the management sees the potential and is keeping things hush hush to give them leeway to design and impliment a new resort.

I wonder if anyone wants to sneak up there with me and get some photos?
SeaRide
September 29, 2004
Member since 03/11/2004
237 posts

bawalker, I am thinking the same thing. Not sure if the Tory mtn will have new trails being cut where the old trails might be abandoned. Same thing with access road being carved throughout the mtn in order to install new lifts or perhaps not.

What about clearing for golf course? What about clearing for maintenance / utility bldgs? ski patrol huts? parking lots? too many to list here but the point is that it's not only the ski trails we are talking about.

I have seen some logging operation being done either terrible or wonderful. It depends on how it's being done.

Does Tory mtn have any rocky terrain where trees are sparse or difficult to grow trees/grass/shrubs? Anyone know?
JohnL
September 29, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
We are just guessing as to what sort of logging operation might be carried out. If Tory Mountain turns out to be similar to Wisp, suffice it to say that a lot of trees will be cut down for additional trails, ski lodges, real estate development, a base village, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the real estate development occured before the ski area is constructed. Sale of real estate will help finance the construction of the ski area.

SeaRide, the area surrounding Job Knob seems to be very heavily wooded: http://www.dcski.com/articles/view_article.php?article_id=26&mode=headlines
Mountain Masher
September 29, 2004
Member since 03/13/2004
541 posts
The area surrounding Blue Knob on the North side (ski area side) is NOT heavily wooded; in fact, on the top 1/4 of the mountain, nearly all of the trees have now been removed. And, on the lower 3/4 of the mountain, only the smaller trees (trees without any economic value) remain. Of course there are also large (recent) clear-cuts on the lower part of the ski slopes, such as the Stembogan Bowl, the Ditch Glade area and the (now) large open area surrounding the loading areas of the #1 and #2 double chair-lifts.

As far as the logging at Tory goes, it is a "select cut" operation, which means it is serving NO other purpose than making some easy money off of a large area of standing timber. Why? Because if the logging was for the purpose of development, it would constitute small pockets of clear cuts ONLY, where structures, ski slopes, roads or houses are to be put up. For example, that was the way that things were done at Wintergreen ski area, VA. The forest was left fully intact EXCEPT for structures, parking lots, and the ski slopes. When the surrounding forest is left intact at a ski area, the natural beauty is maintained and the ski slopes hold snow much better because you have a natural wind-block. Again, for-profit select-cuts are NOT used to create anything......such as a ski slope, lodge, house, etc. Select cuts serve no other purpose than to remove the trees that are large enough to have some economic value. What's left after a sizeable select cut, besides the smaller trees and brush? Miles of "skid" trails, piles of logging waste (called "slash piles") and thousands of large stumps.
jimmy
September 30, 2004
Member since 03/5/2004
2,650 posts
Quote:

"Again, for-profit select-cuts are NOT used to create anything......such as a ski slope, lodge, house, etc."


If in fact, Tory Mountain is developed into a ski area, isn't the "easy money" being used to create everything......ski slopes, lodge, house etc...?

Making a profit is not an evil thing. The logging operation at Blue Knob may be a disaster. That doesn't mean Tory will be. I just hope they don't find any salamanders or flying rodents up there.

Jimmy
Mountain Masher
September 30, 2004
Member since 03/13/2004
541 posts
Again, IF the new owners were interested in getting Tory Mt. open as a ski area ASAP and providing the best skiing possible (when they open), they would NOT be engaging in a select-cut logging operation. Instead, they would be clearing the brush and young growth off of the EXISTING ski slopes (that were cut in the late 70s). And, if they had decided to cut some additional ski slopes they would be clear-cutting those slopes ONLY and be leaving the rest of the forest INTACT as much as possible. Conducting a select-cut logging operation just delays the opening of the ski area, because it's NOT an activity that has ANYTHING to do with creating a ski area. Even "gladed" ski slopes are NOT created by select-cut logging (to create gladed ski slopes, you LEAVE the large, economically valuable trees standing and remove only the underbrush and small trees). In conclusion, I have no doubt that the care and quality of the select-cut logging operation at Tory will be far better than the "butcher-job" that was done at Blue Knob. However, I would think (or at least hope) that the new owners of Tory would have enough capital on hand so they wouldn't have to resort to a logging operation simply to raise some cash (before actually developing the ski area).
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