http://wvgazette.com/News/201007300696
FINALLY!!!! Tucker hinted at this earlier but We were hearing "Wolf" & the post fell on deaf ears but this is for real & next year we will see some improvements at last! But how far will 21 mil go?...Now..If TL can cry loud enough we might see some action at both resorts!!

Gonna use it to build 100 new guest rooms eh? Suprise suprise. Did anyone actually expect them to improve anything related to skiing?

They did say that they are going to install "People Movers" to the Bear Paw ski lodge & to the bottom of the ski lifts which I guess will fix the "cardiac Hill" issue..

...I was wondering when someone was going to pick this up... sounds like all doom and gloom from Fred in that article, I guess more fresh untracked for the frequenters...it will be nice to see a new lodge at Canaan, but improvements in their snowmaking system is greatly needed...the best thing that could happen over their is to get guest services out, seems like their track record is not in their favor..

...it is intersting to see Fred using the skier visit numbers in the article..I would like to see the summer time numbers, I would guess that Canaan would be on top in that time of the year, but I don't really know...

...Timberline does have some really great mountainbiking going on... they should market that more and try to get more races and series over there...the horse riding is great over their as well and sounds like it has been really popular...trying to capitalize on those existing programs might increase the summer numbers...but those things require money and when your forced to spend capital on watering the salamanders it's hard to invest in the product..

Your the Construction Dude Tucker..How much money will be left over after demolishing the existing 250 rooms & reconstructing the new 150 rooms with enclosed hallways for the ski area??

...hard to tell not knowin...are they gonna be motel six style or something fancier???...how much does it cost to go fill your grocery cart up at the grocery store----depends on what you put in it...

Andy? Doesn't cost him much. Natty Light is pretty cheap ya know...

Couple points here that I find offensive in that article...

1.) The state subsidizing something that ends up not getting spent in the best way possible to ensure a top of the line product that brings revenues in the door. Then again for a state owned property that doesn't have to meet a profit margin in order to stay open ... this isn't surprising spending $21 million on rooms vs slope needs.

2.) It's understandable Fred is crying foul - with every right to do so. Though as a business owner I personally would NOT accept government grant or loan money as funding. The BEST way that to be resolved is 1-3 years worth of total tax cuts on Timberline so that money can be reinvested into slope needs, only the way a private entity can do. I'm talking, no payroll taxes, no income taxes, no sales taxes... and after say 3 years re-introduce those taxes at the rock bottom rates where they stay. Mark my words we WOULD have that high speed six pack on the mountain within a year or two afterwards at the latest.

3.) Force the state via legislation to sell off Canaan to a private entity... or at least the ski resort aspect. Force it to be two private entities competing against each other, and let competition bring out the best in WV skiing/boarding. When a private entity competes against a public one, the private one will loose and the worst of both will come out.

Who's Fred? Is that Doc?

As to more or faster lifts, Timberline's skier density on the slopes now is about as high as I would want to see it get.

I was going to stay out of this debate but hey, why not.

The first thing that came to mind is Canaan Valley State Park and ski area existed before Timberline for profit ski resort and real estate development. The owners knew that they would be competing against state subsidy.

Fred Hertz is turning down the type of tax credits that bawalker is advocating.

Fred should be happy that the state is keeping an affordable bed base marketable. Clearly Timberline has a superior skiing product. The skier visits prove it. Subsequently.......

This massive reinvestment in lodging does Timberline more good than an equal reinvestment in Canaan's ski area would. To invest half of the $21M into the ski area would create a real competitive environment and benefit the consumer. Fred should be relieved that so little is being invested in the ski area.

Too often private interest has a disproportionate influence on local politics (not implying right or wrong)and uses this to limit competition. Really, as ski areas do T-line and Canaan really compete? Seems like these two compliment more then compete. Could T-line handle Canaan's 35,000 skier visits if Canaan were to fold? How many of Canaan's skiers also ski T-line during the same visit?

I'd like to see what Whitegrass would do with $21 million.

Now there's a thought. But really, it wouldn't be the same. That kind of money would kill the unique culture of the place.

I can relate to what Baywalker (a good Racist Teabagger! ) posts but I just have a hard time feeling sorry for TL although I'd be the 1st one protesting at the state capital Blgd if I thought it would help them evolve from the 50's to where most ski areas are now.

I have been hearing this stale argument about a high speed clogging up the slopes (started by the old manager at TL as a "talking point" excuse to anyone that asked)..1st of all there is room for slope expansion at TL & I've always felt that the average skier has only so many runs in him/her..Give em a few runs in fast order & they will be running for the cantina & a break!
While Skiing at the busiest place on the east coast last winter I noticed that even with 50 minute lift lines on slow lifts at Sugar Mtn,NC the slopes were PACKED...Every run was like a pickett charge back in the civil war!...so how could it get worse with some faster lifts?

Exactly. Surely any improvements in either resort area is going to bring more people to the area and help both areas..... These two area should be working together to bring more vacationers to the area in general.... Canaan should not be thought of as competition for Timberline... Timberline and Canaan should be getting together and looking at areas like wisp, snowshoe, etc to draw some customer visits to the valley... It always cracks me up when Doc and Fred go over to Canaan on the employee shuttle bus to see how many cars are in the parking lot,seems short-sighted to me....

I don't think anyone has to worry about t-line replacing the lifts any time soon...

...I'll up the anty on this topic and propose the State is investing in Canaan to set the grounds for some table gaming and cassinos at the state park, atleast I sure hope so...

Hmmm, it all depends on how they spend the money. My bet is it wouldn't be all on lodging though some good yurts would be welcome.

All of the interior mid-Atlantic should be doing joint marketing. The existing areas can't match the vertical of New England and Upstate NY but our terrain can be fun and provide challenge for at least 70% of all skiers. Smaller verts also make for more manageable snow making and give rise to the ability to cover more diverse terrain...... well that's my daydream, I guess.

Last time I checked, the lodge at Canaan Valley provides quite a number of activities and services that TL can't and won't provide. A large fraternal to which I belong held its state convention at Canaan Valley 3 years running, hosting about 80-90 people. The condition of the hotel was one of the reasons the convention was moved AWAY from Canaan.

I'd be alot happier if my state was NOT involved in the running of a resort, ski area or not. However, if it IS going to be in the business, my hope is that they would work to make it attractive product. Canaan Valley is not the only WV State park with resort amenities, but it is only one of two with a ski area.

Quoted for economic sense.

LHC, also don't forget that Tory was also cranking up at the same time as Timberline so at least initially there was the potential for two competitors.

Crying about CV updating is out of date 30 year old lodging infrastructure---please.

Upgraded still.

Canaan desperately needs the $21 million, their lodge is very out of date and does not even remotely cater to the DC upscale market. Agree completely with letting a private company take hold of the resort. If an upscale chain company took over the property (one of the big names would be great... Marriott, Hilton, really anyone) and invested a massive sum of money in the facilities, golf, summer activities, and of course skiing then you could have a real resort that would be prime for the DC market superior to the other DC resort areas with a ski area (Nemacolin, Homestead, ect). Although it might not be what all of us would want, it really is what the area and the state need.. a REAL year round resort and consistent source of tax $$.

For t-line.... the issue of a high speed 6 pack clogging the hill is useless in my book. If it existed, you would actually ski more than 7 mins out of every hour... On a crowded weekend, T-Line is almost at a standstill and drives me crazy! That said, the resort could use about 50 mill$$ in renovations.. upgrade the lodge, pave the parking lot, find a way to house more skiers, improve terrain, ect. Like ppl said, if both were private I would have to guess that the best would come out in both of them.

One last idea for anyone with millions to invest:
Combine the resorts in the same way that Snow Summit and Bear Mountain were combined in California. Dedicate the majority of Canaan to snowboarding and terrain feature (like Bear Mountain) and improve T-Line to be a real alpine area with minimal park features. Of course... add 6 packs to both and while were at it a gondola connecting them. But seriously, I think that would be the way to REALLY make some cash.

That's a nice daydream too.

Perhaps it's the way it's done in WV - and it starts with simple things like: Somehow FORGETTING to give me photo credit for all 3 photos provided for the article that came out on the paper on Sunday.
Courtesy Photo?!

I didn't make any of the comments...although I could think of a few to make...but anyway looks like the comments on "Fred's crying about Canaan" on the Gazette internet site had some comments that upsetted Fred's wife because she got on there and made some of her own...Vic you should get on there and ask em where they got those photos...

The response to her's was comical to say the least.

Posted By: tuckered (6:31pm 08-05-2010)


"Ms. Herz,
Read your comments aloud to an english major or at least someone that has half a grip on the queens english and those comments still would not make a lick of sense. I am still very interested as to EXACTLY why the state of WV should give the totally inept ownership/management of that ski "resort" one red cent??? There ARE programs in existence at the state level that can assist in the expansion of a tourism related business. Not some plan that Freddie came up with. NOT ONE CENT!!"

http://wvgazette.com/comments?build=yes&ContID=201007300696

Stirs up so much emotion in me but with this Coconut Rum/Diet 7up in me I just better not Comment...Going over to the Arctic Ice Page....

PS..CHAGA can tell you...After Talkin so much DO DO about TL He has seen me get up & BOW to Doc....(CoconutRum/Vodca/Mountain Brew & a snowstorm with great Skiing will make you forget your I'lls!)

Ha i read thru those comments last week, all I'll say here is if you have not read them, well you are not getting full value out of this thread.

So when the state put out the CV RFP a year or two back, one of the things considered was giving a longer than 5 year contract so the vendor would be able to do improvements and have a better shot of getting a return on their investment. Now that the State is putting up the money, 21 million sure is a lot of money, will the vendor contract still be a five year dealio? As long as Guest Services is running the ski area i really don't think Tline has any worries.

...I am always trying to be helpful and solve Timberline's problems so I think I have come up with a solution to help Fred capitalize on Canaan's new rooms, improvements, and upgrades...I was out of town for a day or two and stayed at a hotel and noticed some timberline literature in a brochure rack, what caught my eye was that timberline was advertising a golf course as an amenity on their brochure??? well the only golf course in the valley is in Canaan state park,,,so its pretty simple really,,,when Canaan builds the new rooms Fred should just go over and take a picture of the nice new rooms and other improvements at Canaan and put the pictures of Canaan's improvements on T-lines advertising brochures...problems solved!