Man Made Moguls?
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therusty
January 21, 2009
Member since 01/17/2005 🔗
422 posts
Whitetail's got them on lower Snow Park and lower Limelight. Yes, one could argue that all moguls are man made. These moguls were created by grooming instead of skiing. If you're looking for a place to practice mogul skiing, these bumps are great because they are evenly spaced and not too big.

Anyone else tried them yet?
Scott - DCSki Editor
January 21, 2009
Member since 10/10/1999 🔗
1,132 posts
I tried them on Sunday, and I was surprised to see them, but thought they were a great idea. Of course, I checked my grace at the side of the trail when I entered into the mogul fields. But it's a good small place to practice, especially since you're committing to a *lot* of moguls right now if you head down Exhibition.
Jimski
January 21, 2009
Member since 03/5/2008 🔗
44 posts
On Saturday this past weekend I let my son talk me into trying the moguls on Exhibition. Bad idea -- I wasn't ready for them, which unfortunately I realized when I was half way down. On Sunday I tried the mini-moguls on lower Limelight. Better for me; good place to practice, because you can "opt out" if you want and still get down the rest of the slope.
BushwackerinPA
January 21, 2009
Member since 12/9/2004 🔗
649 posts
just remember if you cant moguls there is something your are not doing right on groomers either.

there is no such thing as advance skier that cant ski bumps.

also just wanted to add Hidden Valley is going to seed bumps on road runner.
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comprex
January 21, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Jimski, there are also some really good ones over on Far Side.
JohnL
January 21, 2009
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,514 posts
Quote:
just remember if you cant moguls there is something your are not doing right on groomers either.

there is no such thing as advance skier that cant ski bumps.


+1

True dat.
JohnL
January 21, 2009
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,514 posts
Quote:
Jimski, there are also some really good ones over on Far Side.


At the bottom face? Mini bumps? I've never seen Far Side bumped up.

It's a great idea to have intermediate bump sections with the option to bail out for a turn or two. It eases the transition from groomed run to full-out bump run.
therusty
January 21, 2009
Member since 01/17/2005 🔗
422 posts
Far Side may get a few little bumps appearing on warm days, but it's going to be groomed nightly.
comprex
January 22, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Originally Posted By: JohnL
Quote:
Jimski, there are also some really good ones over on Far Side.


At the bottom face? Mini bumps? I've never seen Far Side bumped up.


Further up, midslope, they were 2-3 footers on Tuesday.

There was a clear unbumped line on the inside of the grand curve, and a series of whaleback ridges outside of it, but the middle section was real nice and rhythmic.

Shame about the groombies.
Jimski
January 22, 2009
Member since 03/5/2008 🔗
44 posts
Comprex, I skied Far Side last weekend and don't remember moguls per se. There were some interesting contours and some random mounds, but I think there was more of that on a couple of the Blues (e.g., Home Run).

BWPA, funny you should say that -- it's exactly what my son said. I definitely need some instruction, and a lot of practice, on moguls. When I tried Exhibition I couldn't get into any rhythm. I felt like I was clawing my way down the slope instead of skiing down it. I will take your point to heart and work on moguls til I "own" them.
comprex
January 22, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Jimski, I think he meant that more dedicated work on groomers makes better bumpers.

IOW, maybe you can "own" moguls without beating yourself up in the process of getting there.
JohnL
January 22, 2009
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,514 posts
I'll toss out some skills that most skiers haven't mastered on groomed runs; not having these skills will absolutely kill your bump skiing:

  • Speed control. Not speeding up as you go down the mountain, controlling your speed with turn shape.
  • Looking down the slope instead of just past your ski tips.
  • Ability to link short turns together. Duh! But 99% of skiers on a groomed run will make turns too big for moguls and can't effectively transition from one turn to the next.
  • Flexion/extension. Needed on variable terrain, essential for bump skiing.

BushwackerinPA
January 22, 2009
Member since 12/9/2004 🔗
649 posts
Originally Posted By: Jimski
Comprex, I skied Far Side last weekend and don't remember moguls per se. There were some interesting contours and some random mounds, but I think there was more of that on a couple of the Blues (e.g., Home Run).

BWPA, funny you should say that -- it's exactly what my son said. I definitely need some instruction, and a lot of practice, on moguls. When I tried Exhibition I couldn't get into any rhythm. I felt like I was clawing my way down the slope instead of skiing down it. I will take your point to heart and work on moguls til I "own" them.


if your serious about learning to ski bumps. Pm me we can arrange something.
Leo
January 22, 2009
Member since 11/15/2005 🔗
276 posts
Originally Posted By: JohnL


  • Speed control. Not speeding up as you go down the mountain, controlling your speed with turn shape.
  • Looking down the slope instead of just past your ski tips.
  • Ability to link short turns together. Duh! But 99% of skiers on a groomed run will make turns too big for moguls and can't effectively transition from one turn to the next.
  • Flexion/extension. Needed on variable terrain, essential for bump skiing.



Well said -- very good points. #2 is a reason why mt biking is good practice for mogul skiing too. Confidence in what you are doing is critical so that you can see your line 2-3 turns ahead of where you are (mogul skiing) and 2-3+ seconds ahead of where you are (mt. biking). In that respect, learning (or feeling confident enough) to pick your line is very similar b/w the two sports.

Regarding turn shape, one of the better skiers I have known personally always taught me that you ought to be able to keep any constant speed on any pitch slope while making any size turn...or you really don't understand how turn shape controls speed.
comprex
January 22, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Originally Posted By: Leo

Regarding turn shape, one of the better skiers I have known personally always taught me that you ought to be able to keep any constant speed on any pitch slope while making any size turn...or you really don't understand how turn shape controls speed.


IOW, slope ratings become irrelevant and the skier stops paying attention to them.
Denis - DCSki Supporter
January 22, 2009
Member since 07/12/2004 🔗
2,198 posts
Warm sun softened bumps with a firm surface underneath.

I tried some of the machine made moguls and didn't like them. They spread the turns out too much which goes against my sense of rhythm; they are not sharply peaked and they are all the same size. The differences in a natural bump field are what make it interesting IMHO.

Today was the day I picked up my season pass which I am probably not going to use enough to beat the day walk up rate, but it only cost me $199. Back to VT on Feb. 1 and then UT. Today however was as nice a day of spring skiing as you could ask for.
Jimski
January 23, 2009
Member since 03/5/2008 🔗
44 posts
[quote=comprexI think he meant that more dedicated work on groomers makes better bumpers.
[/quote]

I thought he meant the other way around: if you can do moguls you will be a better skier on groomers. Actually, now that I think about it further, it probably cuts both ways.

BWPA, where is your home ski base?
skier219
January 23, 2009
Member since 01/8/2005 🔗
1,318 posts
What it really means is that any deficiencies in bumps can almost always be traced back to a fundamental deficiency on a groomed slope. Sometimes you can get away with stuff on a groomer that bites you in the butt in bumps. So the trick is to go back to the groomer and work on some fundamentals until you have them right, and then go into the bumps and implement them there.

Among many things, if you ski in the backseat on groomers, then you will have a tough time in bumps because your tips will always be loosing contact with the snow. If you don't know how to pivot skis on the flats on groomers, you will have a hard time doing it in bumps. If you have poor fore/aft balance on groomers, you will have a real tough time in bumps. And finally, if you can't do simple leg retraction/extension on a flat trail, you'll be a bobble-head in the bumps.

I think the analogy of fundamental flaws on a simple groomer turning into big problems on more challenging terrain extends to all terrain, not just bumps. Steep trails are another example where you won't get away with sloppy technique.

BTW, let me throw in a plug: I would not hesitate to take a lesson with Bushwacker -- it will be time well spent.
himihon
January 23, 2009
Member since 12/28/2004 🔗
20 posts
Do you know if they have done this yet? Any other runs bumped up there? Deciding between HV and 7Springs for skiing on Sunday, and will probably go to HV if there are some bumps.
comprex
January 23, 2009
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Originally Posted By: Denis
Warm sun softened bumps with a firm surface underneath.

I tried some of the machine made moguls and didn't like them. They spread the turns out too much which goes against my sense of rhythm; they are not sharply peaked and they are all the same size. The differences in a natural bump field are what make it interesting IMHO.


I think at least part of that (sharp peaks and tighter spacing) is yielded up in a compromise to allow snowboarders a shallower learning curve.
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