Has anyone heard any news on these potential new slopes? Is Bill Bright still pursuing this project on Mt Porte Crayon or is Wisp still looking at the failed Tory Mountain project? Anyone out there........

I thought this was one of the many subjects we're not allowed to talk about here.

GW
the other GW
immigration
which presidential candidate is a better skier etc....

can't resist, had a good day of skiing today
in PA

Welcome to the DCSki Forums, scuzle12! Hope you'll stick with us, tell us about yourself, and post some trip reports, questions and comments.

One of our recent discussions is at this link.

And here's another one.

Hope this helps,
Woody

Scuzle, that subject does often times bring up some fiery debates on here. Also, it comes up quite a bit. You might want to do a search and see if you can pull up any info. I will say that you may want to look through some old stuff on here because there is a lot about that subject that was discussed several ( >5 ) years ago.

And I'm just curious... What reason is it that brings you here to ask that question??

It's just going to be real estate. It's not a real good location for a ski mountain anyway. There is not a lot of water for blowing, that mountain doesn't hold snow nearly as well as the resorts inside of Canaan Valley, it faces the wrong direction, would be extremely wind swept, and the topography doesn't really suit for trails + baselodge + infrastructure.

It is a shame they are developing it into housing/second/third homes because its a beautiful area and the hunting is really good.

After reading some of the comments on the mountain it is apparent the same admit arguers for the resort bought property or made realestatee investments near this location that would greatly increase in value if this mountain were to be developed into a ski resort. If you take a short minute to look over the comments, its easy to see the discussion always heads south after comments of the same few individuals, but I guess that is how most of these forums work?

Mr. B, you've made some astute comments. Even before the recent nation wide economic downturn do you think there are enough ski resorts in WV, or do you think another one or two could be a positive thing for the state in the right location?

Hello Jim,

If you mean "postive for the state" literally as state owned, then I think the best move would be to improve on Canaan Valley Resort, which seems to hold great potential but falls extremely short of what if could be for one reason or another.

If you mean postive for the people of the state and the economy it seems as though more jobs would be good for the locals and any businesses that increased the volume of tourism would capitalize on one of the states most promising future assets, the tourism industry(as the coal industry fades out the state of West Virginia will surely have to look for towards different avenues).

If you are talking about positive for skiers, mostly out of state tourist like myself, then new ski terrain would be great anywhere it is feasible. I just don't think it is feasible at the location potentially known as Almost heaven.

A bit of a disclaimer-I was referring to Mount Port Crown as Almost Heaven. I believe Tory Mountain in Harman would be an excellent site for a ski area, having all the key componets. I think I might of confused the two as,looking back over comments and articles, I think some other people do as well.

Am I correct that Mount Port Crown would be Almost Heaven and Tory Mountain is in Harman?

What about a water source?



Yeah

I think there are several drainages that come down where the potential base lodge/water ponds could be built? I could be wrong though maybe it's not as feasible as I thought.

Except its Porte Crayon, not Crown. It's named for the pen name of a famed illustrator and the Wikipedia entry is an interseting read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hunter_Strother

Tory is s a nice spot, too bad it did not work out. WVa has so many mountains that look like undeveloped ski areas, but its a bad time to be building. One day....

I'm looking up at Mount Porte Crayon right now...Been hiking up as close to the area as I can.. but there is TOO MUCH SNOW! Got to be 2 feet or more up there & with the Spruce so thick the snow isn't going anywhere soon. Water gushing down red Creek & flowing off of the Mountain thru springs & whatever the mountain decides to melt off. Snowmaking ponds would be kept full & the mountain is a natural Snowmaker. It has surrounding Geographical features that offset the nw slope but the mountain also has pure Northern facing slopes & a variety of Terrain that Begs to be developed...Do not forget the North Facing Bowl off of the Mountain.....this is a huge Boulder that can keep a snow shadow on itself to also help preserve its Snow....& on & On & On.........& yes..I have always known the correct name & location of MPC & Tory (Job Knob)....Believe what you want....

Been a great week here in the Land of Canaan...My muscles are aching along with my Liver...& yes..that was me that set off the Avalanche up at Wisp!...Almost got stuck in a ravine up at the Sods...fun stuff!

Sounds like a good ole time. I've wondered where you were for the past week. Do they not have high speed up in the Sods yet? I'll be out that way on Saturday and Sunday. You gonna be around?

I own a place within a stone's throw of Bill Bright's properties at the base of MPC. I spent the weekend working on restoring water to the house via the spring since my well went dry. I echo the thought that water for snowmaking would be an issue in the development of Almost Heaven. Snowmaking "lakes" similar to Massanutten would need to be constructed and would rely mainly on storm runoff to fill them. In a dry year, water is a very valuable commodity. The words for this discussion is "environmental impact." Maybe it's the lack of water causing some ski areas not to blow in this cold snap.
BTW, I wouldn't want that mountain developed. The view of it from my front porch is spectacular.

I think WV could use another Ski area, but I think it should be a little farther away from CV and TL. MPC is within what 10-15 mins from TL and CV? Id like to see one between CV and Snowshoe...Maybe around Elkins somewhere...I know you have to go where the geography is best, its just having that many ski areas so close together...Just seems like it would get real crowded, real quick there...

I can see the Promo's now....

"Come stay in Canaan Valley, Buy the Ski the valley pass, and ski all 3 (or 4) mountains for one low price!!!"

Stay in the brand new 30 story Hilton Hotel, take the new limo service between all 4 mountains...And comming in 2020, the new 4 lane highway (corridor Z) connecting all 4 mountains...Start at Timberline on Monday...Ski CV on Tuesday, Stop by Almost Heaven on Wednesday, and finish out the trip at Tory on Thursday...

I mean, it would be nice to pick your ski area...If one is crowded, drive 5 minutes to the next...but I like CV the way it is...Little crowds, not highly developed (yet)...Its one of the few spots left that is truly peaceful...

4 lane highway, 30 story hotel??? sounds like you want to ruin the place. Please go to New York and ski if want 4 lane highways and 30 story hotels. There simply are not enough skiers to support another mountain in the Mid-Atlantic anyway.

I must admit, I get excited to hear of this topic, and for selfish reasons I would like to see it happen. Solely for the purpose of having greater options for great snowboarding and skiing in the region.
Yet I understand it is just not that simple.
I leave that up to other people.

I think he was being sarcastic.....

Sarcastic???? Noooooooo!!!!!

I assumed the man was serious. I am a little slow to catch on to sarcasm. Never the less, I still think that Timberline and Canaan Valley are under utilized so I am not sure that another ski area is financiall viable given the huge investment. Not that I would prefer it that way. But if you look at this mountain it is only a little over 400 feet higher than Timberline or Canaan, so it's not like it's going to have a dramatic difference in weathter. And if the vertical is indeed 1,700 feet or whatever, that is alot of snow making. Where will all that water come from? Snowshoe has a 40 acre lake.
Hey, I say bring it on, but in reality, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

I think he's trying to run me out to the big city...lol

This ol country boy wouldnt last a week in new york...Clarksburg, WV is too big for me...lol

All i was saying...is if there is more development, it will eventually turn into a big tourist trap with shops and hotels and expanded highways...

I'm still not sure where Mt. Porte Crayon is. However if it is where I think, plainly visible on the left, as you drive downhill toward Harman, it looks very open and windswept. Windswept does not go well with man made snow and grooming. Whiteface (aka Iceface) at Lake Placid is a good example. Still, I would be very interested in skinning it with someone who knows the area. I'll have to ask Chip.

As to more developed ski areas in WV, I am torn. I am not a big fan of Snowshoe. I spent a weekend day on Cupp Run last year and came too close to death for my comfort level (seriously) from out of control mad bombers. There was no patrol presence and one has to assume that management doesn't care enough to slow them down or pull tickets. These people scare me a lot more than backcountry skiers and closed slope poachers. I kind of like Timberline with its benign neglect ski anywhere management style and better skiers, the same thing that created Mad River Glen which BTW has operated since 1947 without a fatality. OTOH many people would like a Snowshoe only 3 hrs. from metro Washington, which a resort near Harman would be with a finished Corridor H. It would have to stand on skiing alone. Golf has not worked in WV, perhaps because there are too many well known world class resort courses in NC.

Twas a good week David & I'm back to reality here schlubbing away at work!
.
Denis,..those "fingers" that you & everybody sees, & mistakenly figure them as the slopes of MPC when driving south from the Valley to Harman, are off to the side & in front of the mountain & are not part of the main Bowl. MPC sits back from those fingers & is 7 to 8 hundred feet higher up. if you can get a better vantage point to check that out you will know what I mean. This is one of the main reasons folks say the mtn cannot hold Snow.

I am Kwills neighbor in the "other Valley"...the valley of the "Alpps" I like to call it ...I sit higher up than Kwill so when I'm not looking at the mountain off of my deck..I'm cking out Kwills ole lady (or girl friend) with my Bi, nocs ...

...Snowsmith doesn't think the 400 feet elevation on top of TL would make much Diff, but you have to understand that the base of TL is 3268' while the base of MPC is 2200' & on TOP of that MPC is not just a "Knob" but the peak of a very huge boulder of the 19 square mile roaring plains plateau which is the highest plateau west of the rockies to compliment the highest valley west of the rockies... It is a weather maker!..neat stuff, huh?..Also , go from 3100' davis & head up 400 feet into the hgts area & you will see a diff..it does make a diff just from the altitude aspect.

Bill Bright put weather instruments up on the Mountain & reported a few years back on a radio broadcast that he was happy with the results...Kwill might have a little issue with his well but water will be the least of the problem there...Think about a mountain that recieves 70+ inches of liquid precip a year!!!!..Tell me how many places in the us get that kind of moisture..& have water issues??!!!!
...Like I said before, don't forget about the north facing Bowl that you can see from the Lanesville side of MPC..There are other areas off of the Roaring planes that would make neat ski areas...something should get done for the sake of Future skiing in the "Mountain" State..

PS..Ask Chip Chase at Whitegrass where the Snowiest place in WV is & he will..or at least he told me..MPC!...Think what you want cuz this post of mine resembles a million other posts of mine in the past on this subject & I am just beating a dead Snowshoe hare at this point.. I'm D.O.N.E..I'll just keep my dream alive!

Fish - the additional vertical would be impressive, but even if it is a snow magnet it is still below the M-D line, you'all.How much more of snow magnet can it be with just 400 feet more vertical. Now if you could move Beech or Sugar Mtn up here which are over 5,000 feet, I would believe you may have something. I think Snowshoe (with an elevation above 4,800') reports an average snow fall of 180" and TL reports 150". This is an impressive number for the Mid-Atlantic, but we are too close to the Gulf of Mexico which give us our warm spells and rain.
I guess my point is that the additional vertical would be great, but keeping snow on those lower elevations is going to be a very big challenge.
That said, I would ski there is heart beat. If you could move Canaan or TL type elevations (or better yet, Beech or Sugar Mt)up to the Laurel Mt's, you would have some incredible snow amounts.We're 3,000 or below and we still get 120".
Can we somehow add 1,200' to the top of 7Springs.

There's something to be said about those vast open fields at the bottom of MPC and how fun and unique it would be to have that type of terrain in the Mid-A, even if it's limited in season due to elevation. Reminds me of Europe, or what I've heard of Europe anyway.

Snowiest place in WV...I thought we decided that was Pickens...

There was a thread here a year or so ago about that...Im just too lazy to search for it...

I know one thing...Ive hiked up to the main top of MPC...Its one heck of a hike...Round trip was something like 12 or 14 miles that day...OF course, I started at Flatrock Run trail...If anyone has been up there, there is a nice NGS benchmark smack dab on top...If im not mistaken, I think i even remember some remains of an old fire tower up there too...

I was just wondering where the weather station was located...Its pretty thick up on top of that mountain...

Nawwww..Baywalker & Roger teamed up on posting Pickens as being the S-Spot..I said at the time that it was Kumbrabow.It (Kumbrabow) is still #1 As far as the Snowiest place that you can easily get to...like you said MPC is nearly impossible to get to....I'm waiting to be lifted up

The weather stations were probably small instruments scattered at stratigic spots on the mtn to get a better understanding of wind/temps ect...

My understanding- secondhand only- is that MPC is virtually impossible to get to and the remains of the fire tower were on another peak to the east. But you saw the NGS marker, so if it was marked as MPC this secondhand understanding of mine is incorrect. If it's wrong, I will change it to be even less accurate: MPC is guarded by a lion that flies on the back of a dragon and eats people who come too close. That should keep Bill Bright away!

Man, this Almost Heaven seems like it should fit into a Joseph Campbell book. Two resorts with great terrain that could kill it if they got their [censored] together...yet they never can...then a archetypal "perfect" resort sits next door that could be the best around but can't be. All we need now is the hero to make it be. Is there a hero to be found? And the name Almost Heaven... it just all fits...it just seems to fictional to be...well...non-fiction...the saga lives on

This thread keeps on going.....
The hero, is the person who skins up MPC and shralps those bowls and glades untracked.

It's there, right now, go.ski.it.
Send us pictures.

Tucker ha that's funny u were censored

I noticed this a week or so ago and thought it was strange. i know you find this hard to believe but i used an off color word in a private message and when i sent theh massage it, the word, showed up [sensored] and i thought it was strrange is all, first because it was the first time i had bin sensored by the internet and now i see you have been censored two, wut teh #%!! is up with that???... if i want to type [sensored] well i can't. you get my meanings it is just amazing to me is all i'm saying.


So speaking of these two [sensored] resorts, well three actuqally, adam & eve, able, cain and the serpent gets served at the bar..... but then the space ship lands in the snowpharm on a saturday, the lifts run backwards, the pipples ski uphill, science fiction of biblical proportians is what i think.....and the saga lives on

anyone in the area that comment on how much snow there is? also anyone who can guide?

I always thought that the top was unskiable....

I might consider it but would need the guide. Preferably a 20 something animal who would be willing to haul me on a short rope.

jimmy,
used be hitng th sauce agin?
The Colonel

Naw, Colonel. Jimmy's just practicing for the jack frost celebration

Unofficial rumors that it is the snowiest spot in WVA. Geography would suggest it's true. Less than 100 feet lower than the Shoe but- 35 miles as the crow flies? 50 miles?- further north. Sits on the Appalachian divide. Bounded to the east by the highest plateau east of the Rockies, which is long enough and high enough to slow storms down as they rise and track across the divide. Vertical from base to summit suggests significant upsweling.

Of course, heavy snow means heavy rain too if these conditions are true.

Finally...someone with sense!...yeh..that heavy rain could wash out those snowblowers & break the levy's...I can see where there could be "water issues'...

I guess I'm never D.O.N.E....

This is the main top of MPC.

N 38° 55.749 W 083° 27.371
Estimated Coords if anybody wants to look it up...My GPS wouldnt pick up that well through all the pines...

Very Thick...
I'd love to take credit for this pic, but I cant...This is just a much better shot of the NGS Marker than mine.

Practice we don't need no stinkin practice, Jimmy's too old to practice, you guys know that .



Denis you still need a guide but I think BWPA is qualified as the 20something you're looking for.

Seen by few...there it is, the holy grail of skiing. The top of Almost Heaven. It is told by local elders here in Canaan Valley that snow does not fall from the sky at this mysterious point, but rather rises from the ground. The snow at this spot does not melt when it gets warm, instead it grows in depth. If there where ever a chairlift to reach this magical destination it would surely allow overweight middleage men from all the near by metropilitian areas below the mason/dixon line the best lift accessed skiing ever...ever, ever...ever,ever.

I do not know for sure, but I have heard rumors that right now upon this marker there is probably 12 feet of snow, a pot of gold, and a 100 virgins. Who will be the first to reach this marker and bring back the spoils as well as a the tales of the glorious descent of epic proportion back to the people of this forum. These turns will surely be the sickest of all time. (please include pics...of virgins)

"How his naked ears were tortured by the sirens sweetly singing,
For the sparkling waves are calling you to kiss their white-lace lips"

EC

So thats what my Statue looks like Jimmi??!...Looks more like a burial plot with a large bullet poking into it...

You got to go Wayyyyy back in dcski to get that one!

Yes fish long time ago, first time i blew dew on my monitor. Gatsinkoski wasn't it? whatever happened to him? Prolly our nonsense ran him off. Speaking of noncents, the webmistress just sent me the complaint report for October, seems my poastings generated a record number of complaints; you get yours yet?

Gadzooks! I am not worthy of even lurking at your poasts jimmy and andy. Tiz truuuuuly greatness i say! A statu on the hole ly ist of mountains in yur likeness!

Actually it was I that made the comment about Pickens having the most recorded snowfall in WV and being designated as the snowiest place in WV. That comes from having attended a Maple Syrup festival there in Feb or March about 15 years ago. One of the locals who was the historic person of the town noted the 60+ years of data on snowfall in Pickens.

While I don't want to counter that data, it's obviously possible there are peaks or mountains here in WV that no one lives on or there is no 'town' at, thus measurements are never officially taken. So it's quite possible that Pickens isn't the absolute winner of being the snowiest place in WV. However I doubt anyone of us would be refuting that getting stuck there in a blizzard.

Bow Down you Peasant!..

I'm still irratated at the canaan areas for sitting on their rear ends while a place like Wisp was jam packed over T-Giving weekend. Why spend so much time/Money/effort into building up that god ole mighty Base so they can stay open till April??!!...Meanwhile if you take the money they could have made VS what they will make in April...Geeeeshhh...Lamo on the Braino!..this is one of the main reasons that I would love to see either of these Mtns up & running...You know that they would be right with Snowshoe & Wisp Doing that Show Snow Hustle....

Keep hyping up the Legend & Folklore Tucker..Good Job...

Pickens,Kumbrabow...Mpc..How Bout Pharris Knob (Between Job Knob & Spruce Mtn)....Its all good Baywalker..Glad to see ya popped back in!

I agree with you fishnski...

They take all the time building up this huge base on the 5 or 6 main trails...they could get an average base going...Open up for thanksgiving...and then work on the base throughout the year...inch by inch...

But then you run the risk of having a January like we did a few years ago...60 degrees for 2 weeks straight...

So its give and take i guess...there is just so much potential there, but nobody willing to harness it...

The last couple of springs, TL ran out of skiable snow at the base area long before they did on those two black trails that get the heavy base and whales. So I have to wonder about the deep-base strategy (if there really is one). There are limitations lower on the mountain no matter how much snow they stockpile now.

By Vermont rock-ski standards, all of the trails at all mountains in WV could have been opened if the resorts wanted to. I am sure they have reasons why it's not practical (staffing, liability, etc). I remember skiing among rocks and sticks at several natural-snow areas in Vermont when I was younger, and it was no big deal. I got good at base repair too...

So being bored at work- I have been playing around on google earth- you can see relatively recent pictures of the areas- I know it is recent as it has the two new trails cut off widowmaker at snowshoe. Tory Mountain- the trails have been overgrown from the orignal cutting, but it looks like at least one has been recently cleared(fitting with the selective cut permit) and the road has seen some upgrades.

There is a second mountain, south- off 219 heading into Marlinton I remember my dad pointing it out to me and showing me the trails from the road- I found this on the maps as well- I do not remember the name or hearing much about this- but same story as Tory- developers cut some trails and ran out of money.

Lat/Lon corrdinates if anyone wants to check them out on google earth or maps:
Tory Mountain:
Lat: 38°52'50.08"N
Lon: 79°31'1.61"W

Possible area near Marlinton?:
Lat: 38°16'25.47"N
Lon: 80°10'16.68"W

I had heard romors about the Mount Port Crayon land being bought/developed but I think that was more for second homes, etc as it is closer to the amenities of CV/ access to the wilderness/scenic area in dolly sods- however I do know they were planning on expanding the Dolly Sods Wilderness. Obviously with the economy the way it is, any development plan is probably on hold at this point- corridor H is sort of the key to that whole area- Over development is definitely a concern, The Valley has a very strong environmental lobby, but the real key would be the countys in that area establishing zoning laws and regulations to protect locals living there, the environment, etc and aim for a sustainable growth plan. Canaan valley itself has so much protected land that growth is limited but the surrounding areas are at risk. As always water is a big question- as far as almost heaven there is no way an impoundment could be created on redcreek for snowmaking- especially with almost a distinctive subspecies of trout that have adapted to live in the acidic water coming off the sods.

Most interesting first post. Mr. fish is the DCSki expert on Mt. Port Canyon and I look forward to seeing what he has to say about you water info.
Again, welcome. Tell us a bit about yourself. Where live, where slide, age, family, etc. so we can know you better and provide better answers to any questions you might ask.
The Colonel

Thanks for the compliment Colonel but I'm not on expert on anything...especially on this Mt. Port Canyon???...I was more interested in the Mountain not the canyon ..

.I think the mountain has enough runoff to supply its own water scource for snowmaking. I'm sure "The Experts" could figure out how to tap a little from Red Creek or the dryfork if need be... If you really thought about it & considering how massive this Roaring plains plateau that Mount Porte Crayon sits on, I would guess that there could be multiple options around the base.I hear everyone bring up all these negatives all the time about this mountain all the while complaining about the lack of quality skiing in the mid atl... A Bomb area is right here in your own backyard..think positive!! Does any one actually think that Bill Bright would not only entertain this Idea but put some cash & effort into the project without going over these issues with the real experts??...anyway these are all mute points right now for a few years.. But I still love to keep dreaming...I can just see the sky blue & white Gondola with a beautiful "Almost Heaven" on the sides riding up the Mountain..up to the thick Snow covered Spruce....ahhhhhhhh...good nite!

MPC is free for skiing- grab the free heels and head up, up, up 'til ya wanna come back down. At least, that's what Denis would do!

there have been a few discussions about the Marlinton site on dcski before. A search for "Laurel Creek" should turn some threads up.

Comon Roger..we've been over this....You step foot on that land & you could get Shot!..Thats one of my main grumblin points...It ain't free man ...set aside for a man & family & his freinds....& now since the top cannot be bought the lower mtn will be ruimed forever with samo/Samore real estate ....thats right..a crying Shame...lets get back to the more popular subject of how skiing sucks in the mid atlantic & how Cool it is to get to that paradise called...utah...Now thats the real Skiers Heaven..Here in WV no matter what, it would still only be "Almost Heaven"...

Thanks for the welcome- I'm from the Charleston area, though lived near Orange VA for a short time- Typically I go to Timberline/Canaan to ski, been to wisp my fair share of times in addition to wintergreen and massenuten(sp?). Enjoy snowshoe but too expensive but for the occasional day trip- Love timberline you can stay twice as long for half the costs.

Im on a work detail out in Eastern Oregon right now- not too close to any of the cascades- local hill out here is called Anthony Lakes- small mountain not much vert but gets a ton of snow and has some decent steep sections for 2-3 turns.

I love the Canaan Valley area and dolly sods- I am on the fence about development in that area but continue to hope for the illusive idea of responsible development. I love West Virginia and all the recreation opportunities it holds, so if others chose to miss out on whats there- that is their loss.

Those two areas- another resort near Canaan and the Marlinton site interest me- as they were the closest the state has had to additional resorts- since trails were cut at both locations- its fun looking at the terrain features on google earth looking at the possibilities.