March Madness?
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Denis - DCSki Supporter
March 19, 2008
Member since 07/12/2004 🔗
2,225 posts
I'm not a basketball fan and not very knowledgeable about the game. We played hockey as kids. For instance I am always baffled by which guy they call the foul on. There are a couple of things I simply do not understand about the NCAA March Madness thing.

1. I thought that there were 64 teams. The first dozen times I saw 65 I thought it was a miss print. Why 65? It makes no sense. 2^6 makes sense, (2^6) + 1 does not make sense. What does this do to the brackets?

2. There must be 2 dozen teams that are whining right now because they did not make 'The Dance'. Come on! 65 teams make it. If you are not obviously among the top 65 teams in the country, do you really have a complaint coming?

Curious minds want to know.
The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
March 19, 2008
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,107 posts
Dennis,
The top 65 teams in the country do not necessarily get a ticket to the "big dance". Frequently the smaller conferences only get an auto invite for the Conf. Tourney champion. When there is an upset, the best team in the conf. would get left out unless they get an invite based on their "season long rating score". Thus two teams from the conference get to go and this might easily knock out a better team from another conf. With all the auto invites, there is only so much room for "at large" teams. For example, U of MD did not get an invite, but U of MD Baltimore Campus did as a conf champ. Do you really think U of MD Baltimore is a better team than U of MD at College Park. No way!!
This is why big name teams that play a real rough schedule start to whine when they do not get an at-large berth.
Several years ago the NCAA added an auto invite to a conference thus creating the 65 teams. Seeds # 64 and 65 have a play off a couple of days to see which team will go into the dance as the 64th seed. The "play in" was tonight between Coppin State and Mount St. Mary's of MD.
The Colonel \:\)
Murphy
March 19, 2008
Member since 09/13/2004 🔗
618 posts
The tournament used to consist of 31 conference champions and 34 at large bids. As the colonel said, a few years ago a new conference was added and now there are 65 teams, the last two teams have a "play in" game to see who gets the 64th spot. I'm not sure why they didn't just reduce the number of at large bids to 33 to keep the field at 64. Maybe someone else can answer that.

You can be certain that there are a number of teams left out of the tourney that are better than some of the lesser conference champs but that's the beauty of the tournament. Every year one of these smaller conference teams makes a big run. I like Davidson this year but they'll have to get by Georgetown to make it into the Sweet 16.

Regarding the teams left out, I don't know about the fans of a dozen teams whining but I sure know there are enough fans of Virginia Tech whining. I got quite an ear full Monday morning when I asked my office mate what seed the Hokies got (they were left out). Hopefully none of them read this message board because even though they are one of the best 64 teams, I still think they got what they deserved.
comprex
March 19, 2008
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Label me 'whining' over Tech not getting in.

Mostly because I find Georgetown insufferably conceited.
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Leo
March 19, 2008
Member since 11/15/2005 🔗
279 posts
At least Pitt beat Georgetown for the Big East champ.

The one team/coach I just LOVE to watch whine is Jim Boeheim and Syracuse. Talk about arrogant. He just always has that smarmy look on his face....hate 'em.

But, the father-in-law is a Hokie. So even though I am a Cavalier (I don't think they even made the NIT!!!), I would have liked to have seen VT make the tourney.
JohnL
March 19, 2008
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
 Quote:
I'm not a basketball fan and not very knowledgeable about the game. We played hockey as kids.


Just the guy we want to enter our pool! How much extra cash do you have on hand?

A bit surprising, since the Celtics weren't too bad in the 60's.

 Quote:
For instance I am always baffled by which guy they call the foul on.


So are most fans and announcers. The officials are getting worse and worse each year. General rule of thumb for the casual fan: Duke players will get the benefit of all the calls. Duke players also believe that good defensive form is flopping under the basket (before any contact is made) with your face stuck in the shooter's crotch. (That will flush out any Dookies on this board. )

 Quote:
There must be 2 dozen teams that are whining right now because they did not make 'The Dance'. Come on! 65 teams make it. If you are not obviously among the top 65 teams in the country, do you really have a complaint coming?


Like the calls made by the refs, the selection criteria seems to change randomly year to year. Plus, a ticket to the Big Dance also means $$$ for a school in terms of reimbursement to the school (or school's conference) plus added national visibility for the school. After a Final Four appearance or a deep run in the tourney, a school generally sees a huge bump in applications and alumni donations the following year.

Like you I grew up in the Northeast, but ever since I went to an ACC school for grad school, college basketball and March Madness is the sport I follow the most. College basketball is a religion in the state of North Carolina.

March Madness is the only major sporting event in the country where just about every casual fan has at least a minor connection to one of the 65 schools in the Big Dance.
Murphy
March 19, 2008
Member since 09/13/2004 🔗
618 posts
 Originally Posted By: JohnL
March Madness is the only major sporting event in the country where just about every casual fan has at least a minor connection to one of the 65 schools in the Big Dance.


Some would argue it's the single most entertaining sporting event we have. I'd probably be one of them. And a large reason is that not everyone's favorite team makes the tournament but just about anyone can enjoy watching Belmont try and knock off Duke. \:\)
JohnL
March 19, 2008
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
My three favorite basketball teams:

North Carolina
Whoever is playing Duke
UCONN
JohnL
March 19, 2008
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
For the Hokies out there, I was rooting for Tech to get in. I like Seth Greenberg a lot as a head coach, plus your team exceeded all expectations this year. You lost a lot of players at the end of last season.
tommo
March 19, 2008
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
303 posts
 Quote:

Plus, a ticket to the Big Dance also means $$$ for a school in terms of reimbursement to the school (or school's conference) plus added national visibility for the school. After a Final Four appearance or a deep run in the tourney, a school generally sees a huge bump in applications and alumni donations the following year.



This year, each team gets about $1M per game for their conference and then they get to keep a portion of that based on each conference's own formula. The actual payout is based on a six year rolling period. In 2007, the actual payout was $177,000 per unit, with a team earning 1 unit for each game they played up through the semi-finals. So, if the amount stayed the same every year (in fact, it goes up), they would get 177K x 6 or $1.062M per game paid out over the next 6 years. For the power conferences with 4 or 5 bids, this adds up to BIG bucks. The total payout last year, per the NCAA, was $132.6M (!!) Virtually all of this comes from the $6.2 BILLION, 11 year TV contract that underlies the whole thing. Of course, even after the payouts, it leaves about, oh, $4.5 B for other...... stuff(?).

Ironically, (or tragically?), the actual PLAYERS on the court who make this all possible get virtually nothing, but that's another issue altogether....


source: http://www1.ncaa.org/finance/revenue_distribution_plan
JohnL
March 19, 2008
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
Well played, Tommo.

For the revenue sports (football and basketball), the "student-athlete" is a bit of a myth given the money involved and the pro aspirations of big time athletes.

As much as I love to rag on Duke, I strongly recommended two books by a Duke alumnus, John Feinstein. They give a tremendous portrayal of the last vestiges of true student athletes. A Civil War: Army vs Navy (covers the Army-Navy football rivalry) and The Last Amateurs (covers the Patriot League in basketball.)

The Army-Navy football game, especially during times of war, is a compelling event.
The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
March 19, 2008
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,107 posts
Leo,
UVA's men's basketball team is in a post season basketball tournament: the first time . Here is the website
http://www.gazellegroup.com/cbi/index_main.htm

And of course the Lady Hoos are in the NCAAs.
Go Hoos!
The Colonel \:\)
kwillg6
March 20, 2008
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,034 posts
Morgan, my beloved Hoos are not at the big dance(NCAA), heck, they didn't even get invited to after prom party (NIT) . But they are still playing and that's all that counts. WA-HOO-WA! \:\)
BTW. On this type of occasion I tend to root for my surrogate team in the wild and wonderful. GO MOUNTIANEERS!!!!!!
Steve
March 20, 2008
Member since 02/15/2006 🔗
160 posts
 Originally Posted By: kwillg6
On this type of occasion I tend to root for my surrogate team in the wild and wonderful. GO MOUNTIANEERS!!!!!!


Yes, amazing that such a small school from MD can get into the tournament - Mount St. Mary's Mountaineers. I've just never heard MD described as wild and wonderful. If they win, does Liberty get to showcase the trophy?

Steve
Leo
March 20, 2008
Member since 11/15/2005 🔗
279 posts
 Originally Posted By: The Colonel
Leo,
UVA's men's basketball team is in a post season basketball tournament: the first time . Here is the website
http://www.gazellegroup.com/cbi/index_main.htm



John Paul Jones Arena: $191 Million
Buying out Pete Gillens' contract: $4 Million
Buying out Dave Leitao's Blue Demons contract: 2.5 Million

Still not cracking the .500 mark - Priceless
David
March 20, 2008
Member since 06/28/2004 🔗
2,444 posts
 Originally Posted By: Steve


Yes, amazing that such a small school from MD can get into the tournament - Mount St. Mary's Mountaineers. I've just never heard MD described as wild and wonderful. If they win, does Liberty get to showcase the trophy?

Steve


Small school in MD? Whatchu talkin about Willis???? I believe that he is referring to the Mounties from West Virginia. The ONLY Mountaineers as far as I am concerned. I don't believe MD is considered Wild or Wonderful either....
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