Where.....
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(Anonymous)
January 22, 2004
So where is everyone skiing this weekend? I myself will be a 7 Springs Fri/Sat and at Mystic to do some training on Sunday.

Just curious.

finsoutoc
January 22, 2004
Member since 09/30/2003
172 posts
i'm riding at Roundtop (as usual). their new superpipe is supposed to open on saturday.
JohnL
January 22, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
I'm still deciding where I should have skied last weekend...
Roger Z
January 22, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Utah. Just kidding.

Looks like Whitetail on Sunday. They're calling for snow so I'm banking on that holding the crowds down a little. If this weather keeps up-- and it's supposed to-- I'll do Roundtop next weekend and some other guys on this site are supposed to be at T-line on the 7th and 8th so probably a weekend trip to CV. Though I'm tossing around a return to Denton. Two weeks is a bit far to plan in the Mid Atlantic though!

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KevR
January 22, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
I have tenative plans to go Sat & Sunday to WT... never done this before but what they hey? RZ look for me over in the black area -- red/white/grew jacket, marker pants, blue/yellow K2 axis... technica boots, blue scott ski poles.

Try not to make to much fun of me tumbling down the moguls on Bold Decision! (if there are any)

Roger Z
January 22, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
I have an unmistakable red pom pom hat and yellow Rossignol skis, completely banged up ski poles and probably a dark green jacket (though if it's above 30 I may opt for my black jacket with a bright yellow stripe in the middle). I'll be there by 8:15-8:30 and spend the first hour on the high speed before cruising for some bruising on BD. Not sure if I'll do a four hour or eight hour ticket, but am leaning toward the latter thanks to the snow in the forecast. Anyone else up for a little moguling at WT on Sunday???

[This message has been edited by Roger Z (edited 01-22-2004).]

KevR
January 22, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
I'd like to go back to Garret, maybe next weekend. As for sunday and assuming the weather doesn't stop me from coming up from BWI -- I'd say get there by 9, on the slopes 930... probably some blues and then over the blacks, depending on crowds...
jimmy
January 22, 2004
Member since 03/5/2004
2,650 posts
Does anyone know what shape Blue Knob is in? Would like to make a day trip there in February. Seems better to get conditions from this forum than to trust their website.
tommo
January 23, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
303 posts
Unfortunately, I won't be in the mtns this weekend; Due to a work obligation the best I'm going to be able to do is a golf course in Tampa. I honestly hate to miss the nice hit of winter it looks we're going to get.

The following weekend, though, I'll be back in Garrett County and, depending upon conditions, either skinny skiing at Harrington or in CV or else at Wisp, Canaan or TL (if they can get more of their slopes opened up...)

Enjoy WT - and please be careful - that place is full of out of control types on the weekend.....

KevR
January 23, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
My experience is the crowds don't really show up until Feb... BUT i could well be wrong this year. Cold weather, pretty good snow conditions, just might have everyone out skiing..

SO I'd stay away if I were you and go someplace else ... :-)

JohnL
January 23, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
fins,

Are the bus trips the norm for Roundtop on Saturdays? What time do they generally arrive? Leave? I may have to have a few less beers tonight to beat the crowds. Then again...

I've experienced a bit of the bus trip madness @ Roundtop in the past. The parking lots and lodge area were a zoo, but the Ramrod/Gunbarrel lift wasn't too bad. I may have lucked out the few times I went.

KevR
January 23, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
I was at RT two or three saturdays ago and even though we left at the crack of down, arriving around 830am, the parking lot was fairly full of cars and buses even then. No lift ticket line though and we took the shuttle up from the lot for little walking, no prob.

I'm not sure where the crowd went but on the slopes I didn't really notice it. Perhaps this was partially because the morning was a lesson and we just ducked in ahead of most folks as needed...

By we skied the rest of the day and I didn't really think it was too bad except in the lunch area which was packed.

It was brutally cold that day; perhaps everyone skied a bit and then went inside for some hot chocy...

??

Spent most of the time on Ramrod as they were just blowing snow on GB... not too crowded, a bit icy down the middle of RR though.

Recommend sharp edges!


Roger Z
January 23, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
KevR are you still on for WT on Sunday? Got a friend coming up with a few of his buddies, too, so I'll have to keep a lookout for them. I'm half-considering bringing some beer and having something like a tailgater at my truck in the afternoon.
(Anonymous)
January 23, 2004
PARTY!!! roger z is having a keg party sunday at WT come 1 come all!!
KevR
January 23, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
That's the plan, only thing stopping me would be poor road conditions ... no 4 wheel drive!

Bier gut!!!

Roger Z
January 23, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
KevR if you can make it to a park-and-ride at Frederick I'll pick you up, IF you're up early! Think the heaviest snow is supposed to be in the afternoon, and if you've got front wheel drive you should be alright.

If anyone is seriously up for some type lunchtime/apres-ski tailgater let's do it! If there's enough interest maybe we should do something potluck-ish-- I'll bring a propane stove I use for camping and some beer and maybe some polish sausages and chips. A few other contributors and we could have a real Superbowl warm-up fest in the parking lot!

JohnL
January 24, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Looks real likely that I'll be at Whitetail on Sunday. Outside chance of making it to Roundtop on Saturday.

If I do make it, I'll look for red pom-pom hats and yard sales on Bold Decision.

finsoutoc
January 24, 2004
Member since 09/30/2003
172 posts
John, i'd stay away fromt roundtop on saturday. they get about 25 bus loads of kids and its a zoo up there all day even on the more advanced trails.
Roger Z
January 24, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
If anyone is an early riser I'll be the red pom pom hat waiting for them to open the high speed quad at 8:30 sharp Sunday morning. One of my beefs about WT is that they never open the lift a couple minutes early. That always irks me. After a few runs I generally don't care though.

[This message has been edited by Roger Z (edited 01-23-2004).]

(Anonymous)
January 24, 2004
What should the crowds/liftlines be like at Whitetail Sat afternoon and early evening?
gatkinso
January 24, 2004
Member since 01/25/2002
316 posts
I did the "make first tracks at Whitetail and be gone by lunch" thing today.

It worked out reasonably well. The 3 inches of so of snow they got really helped out - there was actually some powder out there!

But then the crowds came and Gat rolled.

MAYBE Liberty tomorrow, but doubtful.

KevR
January 24, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
RZ -- also made it to WT today. I think 6" by my unofficial pole plant at the top... maybe 3-6" overall.

Very nice light fluffy powder that was pretty much tracked out by 11:30... didn't get there early enough, didn't even know it was supposed to SNOW! ;-(

Anyway, still plan on going in the AM. Unfortunately I do see the snow predicated start later. I think we will miss it, or most of it?

I am planning on not staying that late, not sure when but probably leaving 2-4 pm time frame. I'm a wee bit tired from today and not clear on what time I will arrive, aiming for 9 perhaps.

I certainly appreciate the offer of a 4-w toe up from Frederick. I may well take you up on the offer in the future.

Hmm, think I will write a quick snow report...

See ya tomorrow I hope!

Roger Z
January 24, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
KevR saw your other post, thanks for the update! I'm having my usual night before "why do I get myself up at 5:30 a.m. in the morning just to go outside on a 15 degree day" remorse right now, but I'll be over it when the alarm goes off. I think tomorrow will be the coldest day I've ever skied at Whitetail. Am hoping the snow-in-the-forecast keeps some of the crowds away, though it doesn't sound like things were too bad today.

My plan now is to ski hard until one p.m. and then take a late lunch, see how things look around two or so and maybe take a few more runs (if memory serves, the crowds start dispersing between 2:30 and 3). Then the apres-ski 2.11 coffee followed by what will probably be a longer-than-usual drive home.

Hope this ice storm pans out in the DC area Mon night/Tues. Sure would like a day off of work this week!

(Anonymous)
January 25, 2004
RogerZ! cmon dude! stop trying to kid yourself! you know WT gets crowded as s#!t after 1:45 ish....
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JohnL
January 25, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Roger, Kev,

Did you guys make it up to Whitetail today (Sunday)? I skied from a little after 9 to about 2:30. I was looking out for your clothes/equipment descriptions, but couldn't definitely spot you guys. Roger, do you have racing tips on your skis, with yellow in the middle and a darker color on the side? I saw one person in the chair who possibly matched the red pom-pom hat description.

I say one of the early weekends in March is prime time for a DCSki tailgate @ Whitetail. It was a bit cold for tailgating today.

Roger Z
January 25, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
You know the only time I don't run into people is when I'd like to. Yeah I was up at Whitetail but did not find KevR or my friend from work who was coming up today either. My skis are just pure yellow, straight edge. Kept thinking I saw KevRs jacket but then the skis or boots wouldn't match. We'll have to plan better next time!

That said, conditions today were... hoo-ah. About as good as you can get around here without a foot of new snow. More later, too exhausted to write. Bold Decision was righetous. And Mitch the lines never got above five minutes in the singles! I took a 1:15 lunch and when I came back out at 2:15 the lines were noticeably shorter. That's the trick: go in around 12:45 and come out at 2 or so.

YYYYYAAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNN. Happy happy happy sleep tonight.

JohnL
January 25, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
I drove up with a couple of my friends and for the second Sunday in a row, we ran across Brian B. from Ski Center. Brian's the social coordinator @ Whitetail - seems like he knew half the mountain. At one point we may have had 8-10 or so people skiing with our group for a run or two. And you thought snowboarders travel in packs!

Couldn't locate the DCSki people. Even tried to look up Physics Man (Tom Mann?) in the instructor's 9AM line-up.

As you said, conditions totally rocked. Amazing packed powder which held up for the whole day. Even got some of that "corduroy hum" when you cut across freshly-rolled snow at high speed. Bold Decision was sweet! Before noon, the steeper roll sections were amazing; 4-8 foot drops with well-formed bumps below. Skied several runs straight down the rolls - it was like skiing steeps out West. After 12, some ruts were forming under the drops ruining the karma a bit. Prolly only got 5 runs total down BD - one disadvantage with skiing in a group.

With this storm, Monday @ Whitetail will only be better. Doubt I can call in sick on Monday since my boss will be there with his kids. Guess that's why he's the boss.

KevR
January 25, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
Ok we were all there!

I made it, but I was WAY late from intended plan of arrival. I did NOT want to ski today when I awoke but eventually got it together and arrived at 10:30am. yes, that's 1.5 hrs past what i said...

I skied briefly on one of the blues and went over to the blacks. I didn't see anyone with red pom-poms on their head... did I get that right?

So I went back to blues and failed there too... going back to black again, I just said "forget it..." to myself and skied! ;-)

Anyway, that was probably around 11:30 and around 12 or so I DID then see someone up at the front of the line on that side with kinda a redish (rust?) hat with a SINGLE large POM-POM atop... I thought that might be RZ?

So I went up and came straight down and waited ... no POM-POM. Perhaps I was being hasty but I got tired of waiting and went back up to ski.

Awhile later, I just happened to turn around while getting on the lift, and I saw the same pom-pom in the back of the line out of the corner of my eye... again, zipped down exhibition and waited...

But then that was it. I skied there till 1:30 and then went to find the TnT group from the dc ski club in the lunch area which was a ZOO. But I eventually did find them & we skied a little together later in the afternoon.

Waiting for them, I skied on the front blues for a few runs, then went back to the black till something past 4;15... then left at 4:30pm

No pom-pom again!!!!

I hit BD twice ... I did try to take everyone's advice a bit, and I watched others who could make a go of it... Took some notes, tried a bit here and there. I think I improved! But only marginally... still I got better! I think I get it now though -- but I can't quite execute it. But maybe I can taste it a bit. That's good! Thanks to all for the tips!

Snow was nice, crowds were WORSE than saturday I thought. It kinda helped to be in the single line -- virtually no waiting for the high speed quad.

Found some ice here and there, more than yesterday. Got worse as the day went on it seemed.

Angledrop developed some tiny mogulettes... but I was just passing through. That trail is a MADHOUSE, a MAAAAAADHOUSEEEE!! (pop quiz: which movie?)

Still liked either Snowdancer or Fanciful on the front again (empty for a LONG time!), and the back I think has to go to Bold Decision! Exhibition was nicer today than yesterday I think, although it was briefly nicer with the powder before it got trampled on. I only hit Farside ONCE but it was a bit slicker, so lower marks today.

BD is the winner then by a HAIR! I may not be able to ski it, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate it!!! Just a dang nice run really.

Still thinking about that beer I must've missed... dang it all!


:-)

Roger Z
January 26, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
That was the best man-made snow I have skied in the mid-Atlantic, bar none. I was announcing that to this Spanish guy I took a couple of laps with on BD yesterday when this voice came from the side of the trail that said "you like this snow?" Turns out it was a snowmaking employee who was doing some late morning cleanup work. I told him he did a great job the night before and I really appreciated the hard work. He was happy to hear it!

That might have been my red pom pom Kev. Of course I was doing similar things where I'd stop at the top or bottom of the lift for a couple minutes and look around, which was probably not helping people find each other. Did BD 11 times. Yes JohnL I agree the morning was phenomenal on the left side of BD. Those drops were sweet and if you didn't want to hop off them, you could set a very nice edge into their side and do a couple bunny hops down them. The right side had slightly more consistent moguls but a little icier and with that wide-open bare spot halfway down. Add to that the fact that every novice on the mountain seemed to be taking a stab at the right side of the field and it was better just avoided.

Far Side was in great shape, and I loved how empty Fanciful stayed on the front. The one time I tried to ski Angel Drop top to bottom I would have enjoyed the moguls BUT FOR the eight or nine thousand other people that were clustered on the run as well. Angel Drop, however, looks like the wide-open plains compared to the Stalker area in the afternoon.

Whitetail continues to work on its customer service-- they were always good but they're continuing to get better. For instance, if you buy an eight hour ticket on-line they extend it until ten p.m. (for the cost of an eight hour ticket)! Another hot spot: they let me on the lifts before 8:30 for the first time ever yesterday. I don't want to get on the lifts at 8 in the morning or anything but I do appreciate it when the lift attendant sees you ski up at 8:28 and says "go ahead." That's the essence of skiing; that kind of loose atmosphere about things that makes a day feel that much more relaxed. And finally, the fact that Whitetail has stopped running the snowmaking guns during the day. A lot of times they need to around here but I guess they feel their base is good enough right now that they don't have to blast their weekend guests-- makes a lot of people happier!

This is not meant as a complaint about WT or any other ski area but rather as an observation: this region needs more intermediate mogul fields. Wouldn't it be nice if the novices and intermediates did not have to pitch themselves down BD to start learning how to ski moguls? They don't belong there, they know it, but they don't really have a choice either. Why not, say, half of Limelight or something as a mogul field, the other half groomed? Having only one mogul trail on the mountain tends to make them unsafe in a way that they shouldn't be unsafe.

All-in-all- great day! Wish winter was like this more often around here.

Scott - DCSki Editor
January 26, 2004
Member since 10/10/1999
1,091 posts
I've only made it to Whitetail once this season (sigh -- need to get back to the slopes soon!), but I check out their web cams daily. And nightly. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this bad habit.

I've noticed the past several weeks that they've really been making a ton of snow at night -- every night. On weekend days they've turned off the snowguns, but I can't remember a night where I haven't seen the guns running. Even last night, with tons of snow falling, it looked like they had guns going.

This is expensive, and probably not necessary with the already healthy base, but it's not hurting the quality of snow and is building up a base that should last through any thaws and well into March. I don't remember seeing such aggressive snowmaking in the past.

KevR
January 26, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
I am impressed with your motivation to get there before the lifts even start, and your reps down BD...!!!

I am CRUSHED today -- and after 2 measily days of skiing at WT. I'll never make it out west! ;-(

I just want to agree with you on BD. The moguls extend up to the top of the trail head which is flattish. This is a nice place to practice except that it then heads to oblivion at the drop off.

For some reason i always hung a left & went down far left hand side which had much small bumps until about midpoint, then somewhat tired, I'd cross over (sorry!), and go down the far right which was moguless. At the bottom, where it flattens a bit, I just wanted to be down with it, so would find the easiest line - that was my prescription for the practice line...

That all said, it's a bit hard to really learn on BD-- that middle section on BD at the big drop off has such deep crevices, and huge mounds that's a bit hard to figure out what to do with it. I did see one brave soul covort straight over them and take the hits, but that did NOT look even remotely pleasant...

I did take this route at least once, and what I did is just try to follow the deep crevices with a kinda slide turn down and land it square at the bottom. Sometimes I could time it right and can make another... BUT often I have to readjust and then go for the next one.

This isn't particular efficient, nor is it that much fun, and it's more "picking" your way down than actually skiing moguls.

But on the shallower sections, I can make it more fluid, and in my mind at least, start to approach somewhat the style I most often see others taking...

Last year I think, maybe it was the year before, they let Exhibition bump up and that was SLIGHTLY easier than BD.

So I agree, a B-list mogul run would be nice...

Angle almost always, on a busy day, has some mini-bumps show up, but they always groom them out.

Take that back! Once they let Almost Home (the right fork at the split on Angle, just in case my trail is off) bump up a bit... odd, they did that, they have't repeated that i can recall!

Well, anyone ditch work and go skiing today!?


KevR
January 26, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
RZ -- HOPE THEY LEAVE IT ungroomed on the black diamond side through the weekend maybe?

---

At the risk of getting it wrong, I think that left hand side had an nice even "zipper line..." ?

Anyway, it was a bit tight but the worst you were gonna do (i think) is end up bleeding speed out in the tree line or in the other direction up a steep mogul side. It was also a little cupped most of the way down which I think helps check speed.

Anyway, I was thinking about it more and this is MY precise line down to maximize learning ... but not get too entangled in the crazy stuff.

A) Start at the top, middle and work your way to the drop off angling towards the right hand side (or start farther right & go straight down). The easy slope and relative even spacing of the bumps, and their relatively low height, make this area somewhat "easy" to practice in... although it is short.

B) At the drop off, or slightly before it, angle over to the left hand side, try to avoid crossing over top of the bumps...

C) Now work your way down the left hand side. You can take this almost all the way down, possibly past the 2nd "step" in the hill... but I favored cutting over at some point before this.

D) Before cutting over far right, work a little into the deeper crevices in the middle..., and then back to safey of the left hand edge

C) On the left hand side use the even spacing, cupped nature of the terrain, and low bumps & shallow crevices to practice putting turns togethers... It is narrow but there is more room there (i think) than it seems

D) At some point you can then bail and head to the far right, definitely wait till you are well below the main drop off... the far right is very flat.

E) After your little bail out & rest, you have probably reached the bottom "wash out" area of the run. This is also filled with relatively small moguls, although they get quite a bit bigger to the middle & left... enter at your leisure, or just cruise out of it far right, more or less too.

F) You are done! Pat yourself on the back, take an easy run, and try again...

:-)

KevR
January 26, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
Oddly I forgot my alphabet over the weeknd -- A), B) C), D)... I think I got it again!

:-)

JohnL
January 26, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
You guys should be either skiing or at work! It's been a hectic day @ work covering for everyone who's not here. 2:30 and I'm finally getting to have lunch.

Kev,
I'm surprised more people don't take the left-hand side line that you described. Usually some of the best snow on the trail is there, plus it does somewhat simulate skiing a chute. It's a narrow line, but still a fair amount of room for most skiers. It's a far easier line than the very right side of the trail which has a bit of a double fall-line at the bottom in one section (off the trail into a streambed).

My favorite line is still right over the drop-offs, especially when the conditions are similar to what they were Sunday AM. Turn just before the drop-off, adjust your turn when you get to the lip and can see what's at the bottom, ski straight down the drop-off and turn at the bottom. No air needed or recommended. There was a smooth (but steep) transition from the drop-offs to the slope early Sunday AM. Unfortunately, as the day went on, the very bottom got pretty rutted (probably from skiers traversing below the drop-offs or skidding down the side of the drop-offs). Had to choose a different line when that happened.

KevR
January 26, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
My work is completely empty, we have like three... but i work in a hurry up and wait type field... at the moment we are sortof in a holding pattern so things are low key and I can take a few minutes to type in a quick response to this... (at least I think so!)

Well what you described, I did go down the "water fall" in the middle but hardly with any aplomb, more just picking my way down. I only did this once so you can't blame me for rutting it up!! :-)

Roger Z
January 26, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
My firm is bankrupt and I'll be darned if they're going to get me to come in on a snow day. The four wheel drive on my truck doesn't seem to function when heading toward the office. Got some really good X-C skiing in this afternoon though.

My line: straight down the middle lefthand side of BD with JohnL. I think there was some scraping (and a lot of bunny hopping down the sides) going on John but to be fair any turning in those ruts at the bottom was apt to deepen them. Just made it more of a challenge when you leapt in!

KevR
January 26, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
Where did you X-C ski at? I had this strange idea for a version of biathlon involving "snow golf..."

well maybe I should keep that one to myself..

:-)

Roger Z
January 27, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Scott-- that aggressive snowmaking is a good precaution in the event that the weather turns to crud again in February. This probably also has something to do with their snowmaking upgrade this past summer. Anyway it's a good sign because if the weather stays at or below average, there will be some AWESOME skiing in March over there!!!

I took today off (why drive 40 miles to a bankrupt company to do absolutely nothing but drive 40 miles home in an ICE STORM???), but did not go skiing. Just checked WT's website-- they left the entire expert side ungroomed for powder hounds with 8-10 inches of new snow. I am in tears for missing this-- would have been there at 8:30 on that BEAUTIFUL POWDER. Maybe I'll do some X-C skiing this afternoon if the ice holds off and my back feels better (getting older, the back is noticing the moguls more each year).

KevR that far left side, btw, was the spot to be working on moguls. I was surprised more newbies didn't head for it-- probably intimated by it's narrowness.

JimK - DCSki Columnist
January 27, 2004
Member since 01/14/2004
2,644 posts
I was at Liberty on Sat night, gonna file a report with Scott soon. Sounds like Whitetail had better overall conditions. But hopefully every place should get better after today and tomorrow.
Roger Z
January 27, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
I rent an apartment on a horse farm. Normally I x-c around there but yesterday I went up to the wildlife refuge in Laurel. They're still in hunting season so there was only one stretch open but it was a pretty long stretch. Hunting season ends Jan 31 so I'm hoping for another nice six-eight inch snowstorm in Feb sometime; would love to explore the hiking trails on skis.
KevR
January 27, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
While its been a LONG time, I can recommend New Germany State Park past Cumberland, if you don't mind the drive. At least at one time they even tracked the main oval. Also stowe has an excellent (or had?) X-C ski center at the base of the mountain.

And any golf course will work in a pinch!

KevR
January 27, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
Veering off into X-C skiing thread -- DC ski club TnT group has this coming up. I'd be interested myself except I will be away that weekend...

>WINTER WEEKEND
>Feel like skiing? Cross country skiing? Tubing? Something else
>outdoorsy? Join TNT for a weekend trip, where you can participate in any
>or all of these activities.
>
>We'll be staying in Terra Alta, WV (about 3 hours from DC). From here,
>downhill skiing, cross-country skiing, and many other activities are
>within easy reach. The exact plan for the weekend events will depend on
>what the leaders and attendees want to do.
>
>For more information, or to sign up, download the flier from
>http://www.pobox.com/~dbrinker/weekends/winterweekend.html. Sign up
>quickly - space is limited!
>
>(NOTE: We need a second leader for this trip. Someone who knows the
>cross-country skiing in the area would be ideal, but not required. If
>you're willing to volunteer, or want to know what's involved, let me know)
> Date: Friday, January 30 - Sunday, February 1, 2004
> Leader: Tracy Bartlett
> tracy_bartlett@yahoo.com
> Where: Alpine Lake Resort
> Terra Alta, WV
> Cost: $102

Just FYI...

JimK - DCSki Columnist
January 27, 2004
Member since 01/14/2004
2,644 posts
I got in a good 1 hr of x-country skiing in the Falls Church area last evening. Not very creative, but I skied up to the dirt running track at local jr high and made a few laps there. Someone else had already set up tracks so I could move along pretty briskly on the oval.
KevR
January 27, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
When we get a couple of inches around here, you can x-c about anywhere really, but you have to make your own tracks...

I only have the track style skis myself (cheapos) but they work ok on golf courses and other areas that have fairly well groomed terrain. One year at Stowe I took skate skiing lessons which I thought was fun. But you have to have a groomed area to do that.

I always thought it would be cool to live in area where you could x-c ski regularly and then downhill also when you want in relatively convenience.

Of course that's a just a big fantasy, there are not places like that in reality!

:-)

Roger Z
January 27, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Well, I wouldn't get too excited about two or three inches of snow around here. It's usually pretty wet with water build-up along the ground. I have some very ancient no-wax X-C skis and those conditions are almost impossible to ski in, because you get so much snow sticking to the boards. Better to break out a cookie sheet or a sled when that happens and try riding the local hill standing up (picture a snowboard with no edges)!
Roger Z
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!! Whitetail is claiming it groomed Bold Decision last night.
KevR
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
That's odd -- maybe just a web master typo. Why would they do that? And the say the left Exhibition and Farside ungroomed which is good at least!

I will see on Saturday I guess...

JohnL
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Whitetail seems to groom Bold Decision about once a week. Usually mid-week, which means by the weekend the trail is at least somewhat bumped up.
KevR
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
Hmm, I guess I never really noticed before ... maybe so. Maybe the snow shifts around so much they have to groom it and push stuff around so that it doesn't slide down the mountain or something. Who knows!

Or maybe they just groom the top part off and the bottom, and sorta leave the middle alone.

Like I said at least one year BD and Exhibition or bumped up and it seemed to stay this way for a long time before Exhibition was finally groomed.

I'd like to see the whole black side left ungroomed for awhile just for the heck of it...

JohnL
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
I'm guessing Whitetail grooms its "bump trails" to 1) lessen the difficulty for most skiers (they do have limited terrain and most local skiers don't ski bumps well) and to 2) level the base. After a while, the ruts in the bumps often reach to the dirt - this happens a lot on Exhibition.
JohnL
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Also, when Whitetail grooms Bold Decision, they typically leave the rolls in. I'm not certain how much of the rolls are due to the underlying terrain and how much is due to the snow.
KevR
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
I guess I am not sure what you mean by rolls... ??
powderpig
January 28, 2004
Member since 12/5/2003
63 posts
When I was at WT on Monday Bold Decision was not groomed, but it needed it. The whole pitch was a sheet of ice with mounds of soft snow from the storm the night(s) before piled up. Anything soft had long since been scraped from the ice surface. While I dont mind this kind of stuff the human obstacles were the killer. The trail was completely littered with people who were gaping rather than skiing...in over their heads and not real sure what to do. I guess a diamond is no deterrant at that place.
JohnL
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Kev,
By "rolls" I mean the "drop-offs" on the left-center section of the trail.

PowderPig,
In fairness to a lot of the people you often see struggling down Bold Decision, it is significantly harder than the other trails @ Whitetail and the tough section is a "hidden surprise" half-way down the trail. The top is pretty mellow and I don't ever recall there being any sort of warning at the top about the difficulty of the trail.

At least the headwall is relatively short so its not a long trip to the bottom if someone is having problems.

That said, since Bold Decision is a double black and it's one of my favorite trails in the Mid-Atlantic, I make no attempt to ski far around anyone stopped on the trail. I do make that attempt on other Whitetail trails, unless I know that person and they become human slalom poles or snow-spray stoppers.

Roger Z
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
JohnL- yeah it's true that they don't have any warnings but you'd *hope* that the double-black-diamond sign was warning enough.

I did see some egregious behavior on Sunday. At 3:15 a father was dragging his seven year old daughter down the trail, and she was in tears screaming "I CAN'T DO IT!!!" These are the types of incidents that a second, less difficult mogul field would help reduce (but obviously not reduce completely). What really caught my attention was the "novice progression." On Sunday morning, when BD was at it's best, 90% of the skiers on it were advanced or intermediate working on their moguls. By noon a few novices had crept on but mostly kept to one side of the trail. At three p.m., when the trail had deteriorated (huge ruts, lots of ice, etc), there were novices strewn all over the trail. It was impossible to stay in a line for more than a half dozen turns because there was another person literally laying on the snow, having failed to link his/her snowplow turns.

I wish people understood how much risk they are adding by bringing beginners/novices onto trails like BD at the end of the day. The trail is in very bad shape and even the best skiers are tired and not responding as quickly. It's an invitation for a disaster. Maybe a warning sign at the top would be a help after all-- ski patrol could warn and/or pull tickets of people who don't belong on the run then.

KevR
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
And I am probably somewhat guilty of NOT skiing the run myself. I don't think I can really ski it, I can kinda pick my way down with a brief ski here and there.

And I am aware of this and make some effort to stop to one side out of the way so that I am not blocking anyone.

But of course this isn't always possible to block no one's line ... once or twice I have moved to one side or the other of the trail to avoid the real skiers.

heck I know this happens to me ON OTHER trails that I can actually ski on so I try to keep that in mind when I am in a bit over my head.

And I agree with RZ that a "Little Bold Decision" is needed at WT.

Maybe we could call the jr version "Cheeky Decision"

:-)

skier123
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/20/2003
14 posts
I was at Whitetail on Sunday morning, felt like doing some moguls, and headed over to Bold Decision. That is not a mogul run, it was more like peaks and valleys that were virtually not skiable the grooves were so deep. I would even say that it was the worst run I have ever skied. I didn't see anyone who was linking more than 2 turns going down. It was impossible. A little grooming to turn it back into something worth skiing is a good thing!
KevR
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
Well maybe, I am not a mogul man so I don't really know. It's not an evenly spaced mogul field that's for sure. I did see people linking more than 2 but everyone stopped a bit. The better mogulers stopped maybe 2-3 times.
You were probably watching ME DUDE!!!
I think 2 together is record for me! :-)
Since I am disqualifying myself really, I will only say I enjoy the challenge of it.
JohnL
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
KevR,

I think we're talking more about beginners and lower-level intermediates trying to tackle a trail like Bold Decision.

Anywhere you stop on a trail, you can possibly block someone's line. I've been in the way of someone coming down BD when I've stopped on the left side (the line you described before.) Even though I was near the side of the trail, lot's of people like to ski down the side of the trail.

JohnL
January 28, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
skier123,

?????????????

You went looking for a mogul run, you found a mogul run, and then you complain you found a mogul run?

If you don't like the trail, don't ski it. Plenty of other trails on the mountain.

Bold Decision this past Sunday AM was very tame and very skiable. Hate to hear what you'd say about Mary Jane Mtn in Winter Park.

bumps = grooves. Bold Decision is Whitetail's primary mogul run. It is also a double black, indicating it is generally the toughest trail on the mountain.

I was pretty impressed with the general caliber of skiers on the mountain Sunday AM. There were some skiers really ripping the groomers and the bumps. I'd place the group I was skiing with in that category.

[This message has been edited by JohnL (edited 01-28-2004).]

[This message has been edited by JohnL (edited 01-28-2004).]

tromano
January 29, 2004
Member since 12/19/2002
998 posts
I have been learning how to ski bumps since the mid point of last season. I am finally at the point where I can ski moguls in control for more than just a couple turns(not gracefully tho). I can make more or less seemless tanansitions form carving groomed, entering moguls, make 6-10 turns, exit moguls back to groomed--all with out stopping or going flying.

I think Seven springs or liberty where they have a more moderate pitched bump run makes it easier to make the transition to bumps, but liberty's bumps are so icy. BD is double black for a reason. It is probably the most challengeintrail at any of the snowtime resorts. It is one of the longest mogul runs (in terms of vertical) that this area has to offer so its not for the faint of heart and is certainly not for the newbies trying to learn. If a person want to learn bumps at WT then try them on exhibition when it gets bumped up, the slope isnt as steep.

Does whittail ever let snow dancer or fancypants get bumped up? Maybe we should suggest it to them.

Roger Z
January 29, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Don't worry KevR. It's one thing for people to work on the moguls and stop occasionally--- almost everyone does-- it's people who obviously have no business being on the trail going down it because a) they want to notch a mogul trail on their novice belt or b) they were egged into it by family/friends. We've all gotta practice somewhere.

Skier123 good luck with finding a mogul field that you'd like. I saw several skiers were linking a dozen or more turns, far more than two or three (though most troughs were rarely more than two or three moguls long). As they say at MRG, don't blame the trail for your own shortcomings. I've had my a** kicked numerous times but will 'fess up that I wasn't up to the run; for instance the Hobacks at Jackson Hole ate me alive. The run didn't suck, I did. That's why I ski BD hard and often-- so the next time I get to the Hobacks the fight will be more even. I even chant that when I'm running in the off season to work on my stamina-- "remember the Hobacks! Remember the Hobacks!" BD was a fairly hard run on Sunday (though not too hard), not a bad one.

KevR
January 29, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
Ahhh, the Hobacks... Well there's a "run"...

Ok, well, I hadn't intended to stop skiing BD but I thought perhaps he was right, I am on the tail end of ability there, no doubt about.

I will say this -- Fancypants has got to be the best trail name!

Ok -- so switching completely & possibly outside the rules & regulations.

Anyone want to go to Hunter for ~$150 per night next weekend (lift/lodging/breakfast voucher) or maybe the 3rd weekend in Feb?

I've been left holding the bag on a small condo and I am DESPERATELY seeking skiers ...

Not kidding.


JohnL
January 29, 2004
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
KevR,

I'd love to help you out, but I can't make either of the two weekends. I have ski trips planned for both.

Roger Z
January 29, 2004
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I would have loved to see BD ungroomed at least on half of it for about two months.

KevR-- Hunter??? Of all the great ski resorts within six hours of here you got stuck with Hunter? I hear that place is a complete zoo on the weekends.

KevR
January 29, 2004
Member since 01/27/2004
786 posts
I dunno, never been. I was just meeting a friend that lives in that area. Had a couple of people from here, payed, then people changed their minds... sucks.
skier123
January 30, 2004
Member since 01/20/2003
14 posts
You're right, I found a mogul run, and it was in terrible shape. I skied it once and that was enough for me. My comment was in response to the grooming comments that were made. I would agree that it could use some grooming. Why not smooth out some of the "ruts", which are not "moguls", and allow the slope to build up again.

While I have not been to Winter Park, I've skied mogul fields in Whistler Blackcomb, Kitzbuhl, etc so it's not as if I don't have anything to compare it to.

I'm glad that there were people who were enjoying it on Sunday. I was just expressing my opinion on the conditions.

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