On our long drive back to NoVa. from from our place at T'Line, as we crested that last rise coming out of CV and started down towards Dry Fork, my wife and I both asked the same question--"Whatever happened to Almost Heaven?"

Its been over a year since I've heard anything about Bill Bright's project. The resounding silence makes me thing that it has withered away (which would be a shame).

Anyone out there have the straight skinny on this?

I'll throw out a related question. Anyone have any recent updates on activity at Tory Mountain?

[/Enter Andy]

the last i heard was that he has bought up the land pretty much all around it, but hasn't been able to get the one upper piece he really needs. next time im at the purple fiddle in thomas ill ask the dude who runs it since its his brother (or cousin?)

Quietly waiting and watching... with the economy the way it is now, you never know what may happen. Johnfmh, what have you heard?

Just got back from the Alpps...Skied SS yesterday...Very tired after 5 day nordic bingge! Sledded at TL sat..Mount Porte Crayon looked bold & Frosty...like my beer does right now!..don't need any bummer nooozzee right now....think positive...cheers~!

It's dead. I heard it from a very well-placed sourced in the local ski industry. There will be a housing development of some sort instead. Bright apparently could not put together all the parcels he needed to create a viable resort.

Ugh. Worst possible outcome.

out of curiosity, who is your well placed source?

Someone who knows the Bright people and speaks with them regularly. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I would not write this post if I did not have 100 percent confidence in this source.

Like I said before I'm bone tired so I Cant get into too much of a rant but I'm not going to give up till I see the proof in the puddin!...If this is true & that BADDD ASSSEDD MTN & that prime Mid Atlantic alpine area doessn'n;t get turned into a skierers paradise & is ruined....I'll be soooo pisssed off I'll turn into a skiing MANIEAYKKKKK....Watchth OUT!!!!!!!!

I think we've got a lot to be hopeful about in the Mid-Atlantic ski scene. Snowshoe, 7 Springs, and Wisp have made some huge improvements. Timberline has also made some significant improvements. Keep the faith.

Andy:

Don't blame Bright. He made an honest effort. Blame the explosive real estate market, and good old fashioned greed. It was a private property owner who killed the deal--not the WV Highlands Conservancy or some other environmental group.

i'm going to the fridge...get another cold one..Kneel down by my bed & pray to God...Because after taking a tour of some of the homes bieng built up & around TL...THE MONEY..its going into homes & stuff but where is the Beef? the skiing quality still suffers! !..I'm thinking there is something screwed up here! ....we need a higher power to fix this...BS..We are missing a golden oppotunity for West Va to see its full potential as a true skiers Mecca! Its a traversty to see the roaring plains area just sit & vedge! we can get quality skiing & still leave the area in a pristine state....Its the 2000's for gods sake!.dont ruin this...please!!!!!!!!

...Atleast there are some quality downhill/lift served resorts in the valley....

and terrain thats not lift-serviced that by far blows away the terrain that is

So ..are the deeds,records or whatever down at the Court house in Elkins where the stuff has been written up as "Almost Heaven LTD" been removed?...I still don't believe that the future of WV Skiing will be what we have now... that would be too lame Brained for me to accept...there has got to be more of a vision or a Master plan of the future for the WV Ski Industry in the works...what we have now is just not the end...it cant BE! its mind boggling to me to think that we are to just sit back & let this slide...its just re gosh dang ridiculus...good nite!

My sources confirm what johnfmh reports...just housing development.

A million thoughts & No way to put them down correctly...I'm so pissed & disgusted with this prospect...I began to post on DC ski when Johnf 1st brought it up as Andy & even posted under HomeBisccuit in a secret ploy to resurect the subgect after many posts got rude & ugly & I just wanted to stoke the fire!..I think I posted up to 180 times under those names on top of the 700 or so as Fishnski...Life will go on but this could be my last post since since I cant spell/paste or write in correct english...I watch in awe as some of you all get such cool stuff up on these threads for our enjoyment & somtimes feel that with the evolvement of WV Skiing becoming stagnent & That Glorious magestic MPC with all its faces...not just the 1 nw Bowl but the at least 3 to 4 sides with all the variety of terrain available just sitting there & vedging I wont have much more to contribute to DC SKI....I'm in Mourning right now...Oh & rest in peace Sean Taylor & HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!!!!!!!....BUTTTTTT if I was gamblin Man & if my endless rants show a Pattern...I'll be Back!..I'm thinking evil thoughts right now...I'm going back to my Chalet...its called "Alpine View"..look it up on Timberline resort Realty..I just upgraded to a 42 high Def flatscreen on my fireplace mantle so you can catch a view of the roaring plains & Almost "Almost Heaven" while you watch some cool flicks & you can sit in my hot tub & do shots of jager & maybe I'l show up & turn you on to some Pagen High test I got stashed up there.....I'm going to hook up with Crunchy Or Denis or whoever wants to hang with me & we could hike up to the top of MPC & plant the skull & Fishnski crossbar flag right next to that statue of me up there...remember that one you all...& on & on....LONG LIVE THE ALPPS!!!!!!!!!!!.....How the F I'm I going to go to work now...I"M PISSED!!!!....Peace in the middle east..the mid atlantic of America you shmucks not the friggin hellhole of the Arab fanatic republic......& shut our borders down you friggin traitors in office....God Bless America!!!!!!!!...SEEE YAAAA!

Uh, Awesome! I wouldn't give up all hope, just yet. Things change, people die, and greed dwindles. we still have Tory and who knows what else which may happen some day and maybe soon.

Oh & thanks Kwill..I'd like to nsy I'm a proud Alppalacian American/beach Bum & Im The Great white Dope on Hope too....At work I tell them that I can float like a butterfly & work harder than a Bee.. I'm a direct decendtent to Tarzan...I am the white mandingo...so I better shut up & get to work!!!!!

Rants like yours are not good for the heart unless you eat burritos which gives another way for you to vent ;).

I love this place......

Yeh, I got to CK out Hellbenders in Davis!.... I forgot the main part of my ryme,,,,its "Float thru powder like a butterfly & work harder than a bee...I'm a distant cousin to Muhammed Ali & so on....But Betterhalfski was trying to yank my Laptop out of my TK so I could get to work on time & messed it up...too much fun!...anyway I'm back down here in the coastal flatlands of B-U-tiful SE NC with the spanish moss hanging off the live oaks & the palm trees still looking warm & I'm wearing shorts & a T-Shirt & that friggin MTN is far from my mind...FISH ON...For now.... Wait a minute...now what about that W-End storm on another thread....HMMMMM let me Ck that out!

Geez what are Andy and I going to fight about now? I think everyone here agrees that a subdivision on MPC with no skiing is the worst possible outcome. Well, it *could* be worse... there's no proposal for a Walmart on the spot yet, is there?

Wwwaaahhhh!!! I wanted that project to go through so bad.

Seems this isn't the first time I've heard of a potentially positive development in the area thwarted because some chucklehead wanted some obscene amount of $$$$$$$ and was willing to see the deal die rather than compromise.

What a stupid m************g a*****e to ruin it for so many people (skiers, tourists, construction workers, resort workers, etc, etc).

Yes, as saner heads than my own have said, there are positive trends in the region but it certainly would have given the local economy a real shot in the arm for a brand spanking new ski resort to come online. At the very least, it might have goaded some current operators in the region to finally bite the bullet and make some of those improvements that people in this forum (their customers) have been calling for.

Must calm down and think good thoughts. Ooommmm(snowshoing at White Grass)ooommmmmm....

DAMB...Where you YELLOWDOG When I needed you 600 posts ago....me against DC SKI & yes you to Z-ster....you MUDDA!

There will always be a sad void in the state skiing in WV without MPC...It will be what VT would be without Stowe..or NY without Whiteface or NH without Cannon Or wildcat. It will always sadden me to see WV Fall short of its potential. But WV Will always be my MTN State & Hangin out with Homeys like Crunchy & the like..Sippin On some of his Home brew & some of that good WV mountain brew..picking out some of the finest Red Spruce bud to roll up..choking on some of chips Whitelightnin & congering up some plans for the next days outback outings...dodging farmers bullits..swishing thru some glades..all this Will keep me going....Long live the Alpps & to many more good times to be had...let it snow let it Blow...West Virginia is my kind of place...you just wont know till you go!

Roger... it could be worse. WV decides to reroute Corridor H south and places a massive gash through the middle of MPC.

Actually I see two sides to this and fully agree with both. First, if the holdup truly was related to the last owner refusing to sell, then that is his constitutional right as an american citizen if he so chooses. Bill Bright was gambling from the get go that the land owners would sell and bow down to him to make it easy for him to be king of the MA in skiing. However, this just proved that this land owner has as just as much power and rights to stand up for what he doesn't want to do just as much s Bill has the right to stand up and try to build the resort. I applaud the land owner for standing up for what he wanted, or rather didn't want in this case.

On the flip side, I hate to see a possible 2000 vert float away on a cloud as if I were cloud skiing. As someone else mentioned, it would have been wonderful for this to be a forceable kick start to CV and TL to get their acts in gear to upgrade and provide better amenities. It would have provided better quality skiing AND more revenue to the county that does seem to desperately need it.

However me, after having dealt with big power gov and local individuals who want to do the same thing to me and my family, all in the name of bringing money, sometimes this isn't the best route to do so. It looks now that if this truly was the case that the land owner up on MPC now will have something to tell to grand kids, passed on to great great grand kids of how they stopped a mountain... of skiiers.

I have to agree with Brad. We can be disappointed that there won't be a new ski area, but I don't think anyone should have ill feelings towards private homeowners who might have been unwilling to sell their land. It's their land, it's their choice, and we should respect that.

Can someone out there that is a whole lot more articulate than me explain to Scott & the like why his thinking is fundementaly wrong in this case??..This goody 2 shoe menality giving one man the power to hold up progress & the will of the people because its his right to sit on a piece of Gods land just because he could give a rats rump about skiing & could care less about his fellow human biengs as long as his belly is full of Bambi while he flips off society...you all are granting one man way to much power.......How would you like it if you could never go to the beach because the rich had bought it all for themselves & it was thier land & right to tell you to bugger off?? That is why the Gov has put in public acsess in between the homes......where is the public acsess to MPC?..BS.. I say!
The north facing bowl is owned by the fish & wildlife at the top & homes are starting to pop up all thru the flatrock plains bowl area....the best ski area about to go by the wayside forever!...now the other bowl on the bill bright & owmer in question side which all the other homeowners have sold for the ski area is in danger of bieng lost forever...this should not be alowed to happen & if the owner was offered a good price & still refused for selfish reasons then Eminent domain should come into play..plain & simple!

I know fishnski, it's just not fair! I mean, there are only already 34 major ski areas within a few hours drive of here. If this isn't a case for eminent domain, I don't know what is! After all, for-profit ski areas that only a small percentage of the population enjoy are hardly ever formed without eminent domain.



(Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but I think you are too. )

Believe me, I understand both sides of this issue. I also understand that there ARE two sides to this issue. And I don't see under any circumstances how a land owner could be labeled "selfish" in this situation. I also realize that we passionate skiers might be in the minority in thinking that another major ski area would be a good thing. (Don't get me wrong -- I'd be one of the first to enthusiastically visit it, and I do think it would be good for the economy and help spur constructive competition among Mid-Atlantic resorts.)

I guess another way to look at it is this: would you feel the same way if this was a golf course that was being held up by a property owner not wanting to sell land that may have been in their family for generations, for a price that we are not privy to and that might, in fact, not be "reasonable"? Or a Walmart? Etc. I might feel differently if we were talking about making the land a National Park. But a commercial ski resort -- as much as we're fans of them -- isn't quite the same thing.

Come on Scott, anybody rhat has been able to put together DCSKI is a hundred times above my paygrade but you still come up with the fact that there are 34 ski areas all around us??!!? 34 ski areas of the samo..samo lame ass hills?..We are talkin about WV losing its last chance for a ski area that can compete with the NE...wake up & smell the powder buddy! There are always only a few people in every generation that have the vision that makes life better for future generations & I'm sorry but you are stuck in your age...I luv you for enlighting my present life but you ae offering me & the future nothing but 34 boring ass ski areas!!!!! Ski UTAH...Ski NE...F the Alpps..they are always destined to be little off the cuff snide remarks while riding up the lifts while spending good money out west or up north

Lets whittle away at those 34 ski areas...We have Blue mtn & camelback in the poconos..Blue knob & 7springs in SW PA (We need Laurel bad.)Oh & there is whitetail + Canaan & TL in the valley..SS & Sugar MT way down in NC...thats all the real mtns we have + we could really x out 7springs if it wasn't for all the infrastucture to build the hill up....8+1 ski areas from nc all the way up to the pocconos....I Rest my case!

fishnski,
I won't get between you and Scott re whether "Almost Heaven" should be a forced build or not, but I do take umbrage when you leave the two Virginia mountains with over 1000 ft vertical off your list of mid Atlantic "grown-up ski areas". Wintergreen has trails and lifts that are first class for the mid A. Massanutten has the vertical, but a quirky lay out.
By the way, Elk in PA is a real skiers mountain.
Ski the VA Apps!
The Colonel

Doesn't MPC have SW exposure?

I really do see where you are coming from, I really do. It's tough for me to have to realize and move on from the fact of this massive ski resort sitting literally in my back yard versus having to have the same type of boarding experience by traveling to places like Stowe, Killington, etc. Knowing that MPC won't come to fruition is a tough pill to swallow myself.

However, in the midst of this I don't believe one man (or his family) have greater power and are out sitting on top of the mountain mocking down on the lowly Mr. Bright below that he can't have his ski resort because of him. Quite frankly, both of these folks are simply equal in their power over their possessions. Mr. Bright leveraged his wealth to buy up surrounding land gambling on the conquest of turning MPC into the aspen of the east. However, that was never a given or guaranteed that he would or could, it was nothing more than a very expensive financial gamble on his part.

The remaining land owner was exercising his full constitutional rights to turn down any offers regardless of whether the public liked it or not. We can only speculate as to what the reasons were, maybe not enough money, maybe he likes his peaceful farm, etc. Who knows, but for whatever that reason, that land owner has every right to give any excuse to turn down the buyout offers and no one else from the public to Mr. Bright has a right to complain about it. As we know, sometimes in gambling everyone gets bit.

I know many on here have complained about using eminent domain to just get the last piece of land for the public benefit by having MPC. As much as many folks would like to use that bit of power in one big raging swath to get that last piece of land, eminent domain when created by our founding fathers would never allow for that. Would some off the wall liberal activist judge try it.. possibly. But the whole reason for that was to ONLY take land from private individuals for the government to put in a court house, a road, or something else that would allow the country to function without issue. So really anyone who wishes for government to exercise E.D. on other private individuals in what they see as a slowing of progress is no greater than the robber barons of the wild west days where the richer you were, the more smaller people were trampled into the ground having every right of theirs violated.

What it all boils down to it, and I know some won't like this thought is that the land owner has the exact same rights as Mr. Bright. No more, no less, and he has every constitutional right to exercise his wishes on that piece of God's green property as he so chooses too without interference from the rest of us telling him what he can or can't do with it.

I would love to see MPC come to life as a ski area, but existing landowners (whose families have probably owned the land long before we've been skiing in the mid-A) were there first. If I was one of those established landowners I honestly wouldn't have too much heartburn about holding up a ski area development plan that hinged on acquiring *my* land. Nobody forced Bright to take a risk. I really think existing landowners hold the power in this case, and it's 100% their right.

I agree with you Brad. If the owner doesn't want to sell his land, that isn't greed that's called "ownership." I'm a bit miffed that they're going to put in another subdivision though, especially on that mountain. Given how the real estate market is right now, maybe it won't go in for a few years yet.

The WV Highlands conservancy organizations have an opportunity now to press their case on designating the Roaring Plains as a wilderness area. It'd be nice if they could fold some more land into the area before doing so- Long Branch comes immediately to mind, maybe some of the area along the higher points of this new subdivision as a buffer. We'll see.

Of course, this raises another prospect- what's going to happen with Tory Mountain? The land is already assembled there, and Marsh Mountain owns it. It wouldn't have a 2,000 foot vertical but I think they could get a 1,400 foot vertical off that resort (MAYBE), which would be nothing to sneeze at.

All I want is a pink pony for Christmas....

Only partially true. It's a bit of marchitecture (marketing ...) Elk has a very strict policy of no skiing in between the trails; confirmed by several official representatives of Elk Mountain. Do it, and you will be prosecuted. Can't qualify as a "real skiers mountain" with a policy like that. Not in my book. Too much bumper sticker and not enough soul. Harsh statement, but unfortunately I have to stand by it.

Well, John, if skiing rocks and leaves and dirt is your kind of thing...

Funny how 'real ski areas' are almost always grungy jobs with dodgy management.

Anyway, Andy, think positive - this may be a blessing in disguise. Perhaps you are too entranced by the MPC lore. In reality, you are probably looking at years of environmental impact statements and inhibited real estate funding all for a narrow strip of land with a wind whiped western exposure. Otoh, if big Bill or someone like minded were to turn back to Tory mountain and build a well funded, well managed slope on a 4400' peak with 1400' vertical, northern exposure, and better topography, you could be much better off than before. Even Brierpatch mountain could provide a real 1700' of vert. Cheer up, in WVa, there is almost always another mountain. It's time to start arranging your financing.

As they say, let it snow!

I always thought Tory sounded better than MPC. A wider aspect and variety of north facing lines on 1400 is probably better than 2000' of western exposure.

Well, we have come a full circle once again in this argument...this will be at least the 3rd time & the whole process of posts seem to just mirror each other...I have discussed in detail my personel obs of this mtn & the way that the surrounding mtns Funnel the wind up thru the valley there...in a positive blocking way...the fact that it is not all nw exposure but actually has a whole lot of n facing terrain..more snow than any other mtn..bla..blah & blah.....I'm very tired now....very tired.....oh by the way.. i have heard thru very reliable scources that this is all so silly cuz the deal is not dead & is going f-ward.....see you all next round...good nite..i am very tired..sleepy....

I'll check with my sources on MPC this weekend. It seems that the discussion is still alive with the locals in the MPC area. Obviously somebody knows something that the rest of us nobodys don't know.

Unless Bright can fund over 60% of this out of his own pocket he's probably SOL one way or the other. This sub prime fall out is causing banking sphincters worldwide to tighten right up and something as inherently risky as a ski resort in the mid atlantic is not going to figure highly on their list of sure things.

I know major developers in the DC area are starting to get worried because basically banks, especially Citi Bank, are essentially saying we are not lending one red cent until all this dies down. Just to clarify, these are large commercial developers not home builders. The only way a bank will fund your project now is if you come to the table with 60% of your own money.

So while Bright may convince a landowner to sell he may not get the funding he needs to develop the resort. Death by sub prime.

Just my 2c.

I'd be curious to know if the sources who have said MPC is dead are credible and by how much ... as well as sources who say it's not dead. Definitely an interesting situation playing out.

I have said this before but I don't know if anyone really took it for anything...A few friends of mine bought about 15 acres right at the end of the 4-lane section of Rt. 33 coming out of Elkins heading toward Harman. It wasn't more than 2 or 3 months later a realtor contacted them and want to buy the property off of them for a lot more than they paid for it. Their reason was that there was soon to be an announcement of a resort that was going to be developed right outside of Harman, called Tory. That was probably about 1 1/2 years ago, and I am guessing there still has been no announcement. My friends still own the property (with no development on it). Is there someone trying to revive the Tory project or what???

Didn't really know where to put this so I figured here is as good of a place as any

I typed Tory Mountain into Google and found this. I thought it was pretty interesting that some Colorado guys know this much about "planned" ski areas here in WV...

http://www.coloradoskihistory.com/blog/1994/03/


This is pretty cool too:
" Tory Mountain, West Virginia (1986)



Tory Mountain was a proposed West Virginia ski resort when we appraised it along with Ted Farwell & Associates in 1986. It has never been constructed. Closser Associates performed the appraisal of the proposed real estate developments while Farwell & Associates analyzed the ski operations. At the time of our appraisal, ski runs had been cleared, an access road built and a maintenance building constructed. Project feasibility was a critical question in this analysis, as the market for recreational real estate developments at the time was burdened by overbuilding and consequent failures at condominium developments at nearby Snowshoe and Silver Creek resorts."

http://www.closserassociates.com/westvirginia.html

wow - id love to know when this photo of tory was taken

http://www.closserassociates.com/negatives/torymtn1.jpg

ive never seen that view before - impressive!!

IS that really tory???

Does it match up with this??

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Harman,+WV...7&t=h&z=13&om=1

it looks a little different - the lift line for sure......as well as some "extra" trails.....

I'd say it was probably taken sometime in the summer of 1986. The other link on their site says they did the appraisal then. You can still see the trails if the lighting/atmospheric conditions are right from the top of the mtn on Rt 33 south of Harman. Helps if the leaves are on too.

Yes, that is (or was) really Tory. Nice run lines, eh? I imagine the trails would be widened from those in the photo if it gets going again.

Hey..it looks like Timberline...Nah..TL has more terrain variety....Looks like an overgrown Whitetail...BORING!!...There is no MTN with the character of MPC & all of its sides & Bowls......Ck this out...SS at 4800' got 7 inches as of 7am this morn..Canaan hgts at 3800' got 7.7...MPC is a couple miles south of CV which if you believe the snow obs guy there (I don't) got 12 inches....what do you think nearly 4800' MPC recieved?...No one will ever know..ain't that a shame?!!!??

& PS If I ever hear another Windswept mtn comment from any of you all...especially when there is no part of the main MTN that is not HEAVILY forested...Spruce so thick at the top it is inpeneterable...I will explode in a million rants!!! Think about it!

MPC gets more wind than western Kansas.

You should be banned from DCSKI You Kansas transplant Traitor missfit...MUDDA!!!

I almost forgot... I asked around a couple of weeks ago with the locals. No word. Couldn't find the one guy who's in the know with the family who owns the important piece, short of going out to the house and asking. Gonna be back in the neighborhood tonight, so I may make a visit....just a neighborly thing. Our house and its 5 acres are very close to some of Bright's properties.

I am not sure if this is the same area, or if this area is just south of where "Almost Heaven" was planned.

There is a large plat (>2000 acres) in the immediate vicinity which is now part of the "Thunderstruck Project".

The Thunderstruck Project is a business formed to sell ecology credits to developers and road builders. The bulk of land is supposedly pristine and is never to be developed. They do plan for a couple dozen homes in the non-pristine areas. Although this land is to be protected, nothing is forever, and this land is subject to the same ecology credit transfer process now being used by its owners to generate revenue. Maybe someone on the forum can find some maps and confirm my suspicions. Here's a start: http://thunderstruckllc.com/ts_landuse.html

According to one local who knows all the players, it was a parcel of about 1800 acres which is going into some type of conservancy that Bright needed to put it all together. But it sounds like one and the same. If interested in "Almost Heaven" real estate, I have the number. Just pm me. Looks as though it's going to be a housing development of some type as John said months ago. Sorry Andy.

Any idea what they're planning for lot prices, and about how large the lots will be? It'd be nice to buy a property or two and just never develop them. Financially dumb, but nice. Maybe camp out on the property to annoy the neighbors once in a while.

If you are interested in purchasing lots in that area, I recommend contacting Charlie Winfree [charlie@mtnhome4u.com]. He did a great job finding us a lot.