Arctic begins to Chill!
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fishnski
September 27, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
Been watching the Ice cap all year & it reached a new low in ice cap coverage this Sept. I've kept an eye out for some colder weather to halt the ice loss & for the buildup to begin...& I can report that finally we are on the rebound! Barrow,AK is finally back to ave with Snow almost every day...Siberia & North Canada have seen some decent snows,filling in around the ice pack. CO & the Rockies got into the game & the latest maps reflect that nicely!......COME ON MAMA NATURE...You shall overcome!..DC Ski demands that you Beat this GW Thang!
comprex
September 27, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
Uhhh, very creditable obsession fishnski, but, ahem, what all do you consider 'local resorts' ?

PS, I'm mostly watching Icelandic air temps in hope of cold high pressure.
langleyskier
September 28, 2007
Member since 12/7/2004 🔗
824 posts
Only problem is that horrible lack of sea ice:(

Current Ice at Barrow, AK:



Barrow Ice Oct. 1st 2000:




Lack of sea ice means it will be harder to get really cold in northern Canada and as a result harder to get colder air down into the States. Lets just hope for some quick ice formation in the next few weeks!!
fishnski
September 28, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
I don't think that the Oct 2000 pic was a normal event....I think that normaly Barrow loses all of its near shore ice every summer.(I could be wrong) There was some sort of Ice shove that occured that year....A weather event that shoved a ton of ice Barrows way which lingered thruout the summer. ....Comprex..Understood the obsession & the cold high pressure thing..but did not understand where the Local resorts comment came from...please excuse my ignorance!
PS..There will be no Sun to reflect off of the open water soon..that will get the ice pack going again...The Antarctic melts & forms every year & winter life goes on down there.. so maybe we will just have to wait for later starts to our winter from now on?!?
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comprex
September 28, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts

fishnski I think their summer is over by September, so October sea ice may not be historically unusual.

(notice all this is in "Local resort discussions?")
fishnski
September 28, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
Oh..I Got you Comprex..My Bad...Like I said..Please excuse my Ignorance!
comprex
September 28, 2007
Member since 04/11/2003 🔗
1,326 posts
\:\) You're a good sport fishnski. Did any of you catch this story?
jimmy
September 28, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
[quote=comprex]:) You're a good sport fishnski.

Actually PJ that's two good sports??? but are they sports or are they skills, rereational activities?? the do designate some fishing as sport fishing so is fishing a sport and an activity? Subsistence fishing on StLawrence island is being threatened by chicken nuggets and pizza; if given a choice between Mungtuk and PizzahutSupreme w/anchovies what would yu choose. For me, i'll be at kwills opening day rock ski sail b'cause i hate to miss opening day.
Roger Z
September 28, 2007
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
Say, speaking of ice and global warming and all that, I was over checking the weather forecast for the weekend at weather.com and saw this blog title from a senior meteoroligist:

"A CONNECTION BETWEEN GLOBAL WARMING AND WEATHER"

Wow. My goodness. Can I work for weather.com? I wanna write an article entitled "a connection between water and wetness." I think it could be a real breakthrough piece!

Actually, the blog entry, while long, is pretty interesting. I haven't seen anyone write about climates and millibar levels before. I probably even misspelled mili-bar (twice!). It's Friday and all I want is a beer, so I wasn't paying too much attention. The title was good enough!
fishnski
September 28, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
Jimmi, I don't think you know it yet, but YOU DONE LOST YOUR MIND...Or maybe you have left us mortals for some elevated & advanced brainophere zone where no man has traveled...Elevated most likley by hops & Possible Herbs or a combination of! Beam me up Buddy!
kwillg6
October 1, 2007
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,036 posts
You mean you don't know "jimmy speak?" \:\( I thought any self respecting DC Forum Lurker new how 2 do da jimi speek and no what is bein sayd. ;\) Remember, weez in da presentz of the cre8tr of da holy "untopic"
fishnski
November 9, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
NWS Anchorage is reporting that even though this years min Arctic ice was at record lows..the ice has made it back to nearly the same amount as 05/06..They say the ice is rapidly developing & should be at normal levels by Dec! We will have our cold factory this year... we just have to hope for good Weather patterns!.....Whats up Doom & Gloom Owl Bore?....some people are soooo LUCKY to be rich!
fishnski
December 11, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
The arctic is chillin like a big dog now!..As of last week the ice has made it back to within 1 percent of normal & its not even winter yet!...this is so significant since we had to start off with not only record lows but low sea ice that had beat out 4 previous records! The northern Hem has an outstanding snow cover now & we have hope for some interesting nordic weather coming up for the high country this weekend & beyond... The antarctic has above ave ice now so if you combine the 2 we are above ave for the world....Stay Tuned :)...did any of you all help contribute to OwlBores fancy carbon trail airplane by supporting this oaf by watching that inconvenient waste of money?
jimmy
December 11, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
 Quote:
& we have hope for some interesting nordic weather coming up for the high country this weekend & beyond...


Been sitting here under the front for a week now, colder here than in the mountains but watching the 7 day down in allps and it's changing slightly for the better sooner. Wuz hoping u and and the rest of your forecast team might give us some insight as to when the next Weekend Storm? might be?
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
December 11, 2007
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
1,369 posts
The ostrich approach to science requires you to stick you head in the ground (or somewhere else) where you can ignore the facts. The polar ice caps have shrunk significantly over the last 20 years->fact. Water freezes when it is cold (aka: winter)->fact. The overall effect on snow making in the Mid-Atlantic of the isolated things you mention - zero.
fishnski
December 11, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
Are you saying that the fact that the ice pack & snow pack which have come back to normal levels...which are the #1 cold generators for snowmaking & snow in general have no impact what so ever?...what kind of inconvenient crock full of Ostrich do do are you trying to feed us?....nasa has also revised its thought process on 2005 as bieng the hottest year on record & is now going back to 1934 as bieng the hottest.... your right, we need facts dude not brainwash.......unbelievable \:D
bawalker
December 11, 2007
Member since 12/1/2003 🔗
1,547 posts
heh something soon had better happen cause it's 70* outside now here in Lost City and I'm walking around in basketball shorts when two weeks ago I was freezing as the house temps couldn't stay above 60.
langleyskier
December 11, 2007
Member since 12/7/2004 🔗
824 posts
Read on easternuswx.com that Hudson bay is now frozen over which is the earliest since 2002 and Canada is the coldest its been this time of year since the early 70's!!! ... now only if some of that would spill down this way
Roger Z
December 11, 2007
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
It sure has spilled this way. It's been colder than a mutha for about a week now here. Thank goodness it moderated a little today so we weren't buried under ice. I don't think we've broken 34 (that was our high today) in a week. On the other side of the state- St. Louis is in the 40s. The trough appears to be passing north right through Columbia... I couldn't believe when someone said it was 77 in Atlanta. 70 degrees seems like a concept from a science fiction movie right now.
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
December 11, 2007
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
1,369 posts
Selective use of Ostrich data will get you no where. I believe the numbers indicate that of the last 8 or 10 years, they are the hottest years on record. I am sure that Dr. Limbaugh's reseach would prove other wise. Imaging now that you had several hundred million years of of stored hydro-carbon engergy in the back of your pick'em up truck and your 8 cylinder hemi burned up those 300 million years of stored hydro-carbon energy in say 100 years on your way to a fishin' trip. And it didn't burn up all of the hydro-carbon energy, because the 8 cylinder hadn't been tuned up in while. Thus releasing several hundred million years of stored carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Now what would a common sense ole' fisherman say what might happen to the ole earth atmosphere.
Fish or cut bait! \:D
skier219
December 11, 2007
Member since 01/8/2005 🔗
1,318 posts
I think we should avoid a debate using the Yosemite Sam approach with guns a blazing. Andy, I would suggest leaving out the inflammatory remarks else you're going to relegate yourself to a MM role and we all like you too much for that! Both sides of the GW debate can be adequately handled without hysteria, trust me, I work with the pros who are on the forefront of the issue. My only input will be to say that we are just beginning to get core samples drilled at the poles, which give us tens of millions of years of climate/carbon history with very little room for subjectivity. I think that will help settle the debate once and for all.
snosnugums
December 11, 2007
Member since 04/10/2006 🔗
126 posts
I thought there was amusing comments in these posts with some good acerbic joking. I didn't see any ranting like the former MM. I think what I find frustrating is the last two winters had Januarys, which were essentially the warmest month of the winter. Normally you would expect January to be month when the ski resorts build their bases. But we haven't had a January recently when the snowmaking can crank out a base that can last through the thaws of February and March. I'm afraid that I am not an expert about global warming, however,the Pentagon recently released thier concurence with the theories on GM.
The last thing we need as Mid-Atlantic skiers is warmer weather. I just want to ski.
fishnski
December 11, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
80 down here yest & today Rog...eat some heart buddy!..Tied & broke a record by 2 degrees(1966 & 1985)...no big alarm though when looking at the big pic. Snowsmith buddy...GW has peaked in the last 8 to 10 years with almost 0 warming....GW is dead.. its over Johnny!..waterline down at the end of my street has not changed in the 8 years ive been watching it....broke many record lows over the last few years down here which made me give up on growing a couple diff Palm species..I do have 5 kinds thriving in my yard now though & am happy about that.....Mama nature rules & man is a pee on at this point.....come on BLIZZARD this weekend!.......PS Ice will be all the way to the Bearing straghts by this weekend...what did you say? Winter causes Ice?..Dang your Smart!!!....Common ole fisherman sense...cut bait for fish- now were talkin!
skier219
December 11, 2007
Member since 01/8/2005 🔗
1,318 posts
I think it's fine to have amusing comments, but when the discussion takes on political tones, it's getting a little out of control (never mind irrelevant). Furthermore, when people cite "evidence" that involves short term observations, it's a serious waste of time and relegates the debate to a primitive level where it doesn't serve much purpose.

The recent warm mid-A winters have been due to short term weather patterns (for instance La Nina will be the driver this time around). Same goes for the Arctic chilling topic that got the thread started -- that's short term too. When we get cold snaps (last week) and warmups (this week) they're micro events. And looking at water levels at the end of the street for 8 years is useless. The history that feeds into the GW debate involves cycles that run over thousands and millions of years.

Until we fully understand that history, we can't put short term events into context. So it's somewhat irrelevant to talk about any of these short term events in the debate about GW, whether you're pro or against the theory. If any of the aforementioned events were used in an argument about GW, they would be wrong! I hate to see stuff like this thrown around, because it only gets in the way of a real understanding (that's the MM similarity). Please save the Mickey Mouse science for your next trip to Disney!

And by the way I am not trying to pick on any particular person or take any particular side. I am firmly in the middle of the road on this one.
DCSki Sponsor: Massanutten Resort
langleyskier
December 12, 2007
Member since 12/7/2004 🔗
824 posts
uh oh... not this again.

One thing to add... well really just agreeing with fishnski and skier219... people who are using the last two jan.'s as a basis (or even support) for GW need to remember both that last feb had some really historic cold that basically balanced january out and that you can never take two months out of two years form one small region of the entire world to use as an argument for GW... just does not work that way.

Any way we can stop the discussion here? I know MM is gone so it hopfully will not blow up like it used too but this is never an appropriate topic for mid-winter on a skiing site. Also, scott, many of times, has asked that we not restart the GW debate
fishnski
December 12, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
Awwww...come on ya stiffs...were having FUNNNNN!.Look, How can we not inject politics into DC Ski...my God DC IS Politics!! Your points Skier are just my argument...where is the alarm??? There is nothing that stands out so strong in the short term(Last hundred & some odd years) that can bring about a united consenses...so bottom line is CHILL...there is nothing we can do about whatever is happening even though I don't think anybody should be worrying because from what I can OBSERVE...I don't just listen to other folks..I OBSERVE..& make my own mind up....is that GW has peaked & was nothing more than Increased Solar energy & changed weather patterns.... I do not listen to Rush Either..I think he can get rather Boring...I am more of a Boortz kind of guy!...........I cannot help but pick on OwlBore because I think he is a flaming IDIOT...that is my right as it is your right to think I'm a flaming IDIOT...that is what helps make this world go around......Are we having FUN yet??
langleyskier
December 12, 2007
Member since 12/7/2004 🔗
824 posts
 Originally Posted By: fishnski
Awwww...come on ya stiffs...were having FUNNNNN!.Look, How can we not inject politics into DC Ski...my God DC IS Politics!! Your points Skier are just my argument...where is the alarm??? There is nothing that stands out so strong in the short term(Last hundred & some odd years) that can bring about a united consenses...so bottom line is CHILL...there is nothing we can do about whatever is happening even though I don't think anybody should be worrying because from what I can OBSERVE...I don't just listen to other folks..I OBSERVE..& make my own mind up....is that GW has peaked & was nothing more than Increased Solar energy & changed weather patterns.... I do not listen to Rush Either..I think he can get rather Boring...I am more of a Boortz kind of guy!...........I cannot help but pick on OwlBore because I think he is a flaming IDIOT...that is my right as it is your right to think I'm a flaming IDIOT...that is what helps make this world go around......Are we having FUN yet??


yeehaw!!!.... i just think we need some snow to remind everyone its winter. The warm temps have us all a little worried after last year's misery. I mean.. who can discuss GW when its snowing outside?
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
December 12, 2007
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
1,369 posts
Fishnski - your comments are sounding kind of fishy to me. If you think OwlGore is a flaming idiot then you probably have even a lower opinion of our current president who I would imagine you probably voted for not once, but twice, despite the mess he's gotten us into and despite the fact that he can't recite complete sentences in public. I had to get that in before I actually talk about skiing.
I just heard a report on the radio this morning that the Artic ice this summer (that is the period where you would observe ice melt) covered the smallest area ever recorded. So it is good to hear that the ice is refreezing now that it is winter. Maybe you could transplant some your palm trees up there in the artic to shade the ice to help slow the melting. I read an interesting theary published by the Woods Hole Oceanographic institute. In summary, their theory is that as the ice caps melt, the oceans cool in the middle latitudes, causeing a mini ice age. Perhaps that's what we're moving into. I't kind of like when you first put the ice into your scotch on the rocks, initially the scotch is room temperarture then a the ice melts the scotch just gets cooler and better and then even the glass gets cold. Thus we soon may not even need snow making. Perhaps we should accelerate the ice melting so that we can improve Mid-Atlantic ski conditions.
I read recently about a ski area being built in Dallas, Texas. They are using an artificial ski surface that is widely used in Europe. Perhaps that will be the wave of the future.
But of course we are having an unsual winter time Artic Chill and we are supposed to get 4" - 8" of snow this weekend. So for this weekend, GW is dead. And in the overall scheme of the bigger picture such as a super nova of the sun, collapse of the universe, being such into a black whole or a nuclear armegeddon, we are in good shape relatively speaking.
jimmy
December 12, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
 Originally Posted By: jimmy
[quote=comprex]:) You're a good sport fishnski.

Actually PJ that's two good sports??? but are they sports or are they skills, rereational activities?? the do designate some fishing as sport fishing so is fishing a sport and an activity? Subsistence fishing on StLawrence island is being threatened by chicken nuggets and pizza; if given a choice between Mungtuk and PizzahutSupreme w/anchovies what would yu choose. For me, i'll be at kwills opening day rock ski sail b'cause i hate to miss opening day.
Leo
December 12, 2007
Member since 11/15/2005 🔗
279 posts


 Originally Posted By: langleyskiier
So it is good to hear that the ice is refreezing now that it is winter.


 Originally Posted By: langleyskiier
yeehaw!!!.... i just think we need some snow to remind everyone its winter. The warm temps have us all a little worried after last year's misery. I mean.. who can discuss GW when its snowing outside?


To assist everyone with this fascinating debate, I thought it may be helpful to remind everyone that it actually is not winter.
KevR
December 12, 2007
Member since 01/27/2004 🔗
786 posts
I hadn't followed the sea-ice saga, now though I'm depressed.

The sea ice melts to historic lows in the summer, so that means the ocean up there absorbed more solar heat than it has in the past...

Then it refreezes back to the same cover area (although not necessarily the same thickness/mass -- TBD) this winter... great.

BUT if its part of a cycle, then that little bit of extra heat will add up over time, every summer a little more heat into that ocean.

That's the part that's got me depressed, I can't see much good in the ice reforming, except it better than it not reforming at all.

Unless somehow it stays longer than this past year for years to come, and is not part of cycle of severe summer melt back.
jimmy
December 12, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
I was depressed by this weather that's not so good for the ski areas to make snow, but then i reed Leo's post and realize that it's not yet Winter and now i am happy, don't worry KevR
KevR
December 12, 2007
Member since 01/27/2004 🔗
786 posts
actually i was in denver over the weekend, 2-4ft of fresh snow definitely did wonders for my winter 'tude. Then I came back here.. ugh.
Roger Z
December 12, 2007
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
See? This is one great thing about living in Kansas. If it were 70 here right now, that would be neither good nor bad, because no ski area of any substance benefits or gets harmed by the weather out here. As much as I like winter, warm days=lower heating bills=more money to spend at the ski resorts in CO which are probably getting belted with snow regardless of the temp here. So one advantage to moving to Kansas is that I've taken care of that seasonal depression I used to get back on the east coast every time the temp got above 40.

Today was not a 70 degree day out here. Since my house temperature and my refrigerator temperature were both approaching 50 this morning (due to a power outage), I moved all my refrigerated and frozen items outdoors, where the temp was a balmy 26. I think we blasted all the way to 29 today. Tomorrow we might break the freezing mark for the first time in a week. Yee hawr.

Oh, I think I'm going to make a push to go to Copper Mountain this weekend. $50 lift tickets and it's surprisingly closer than Breckenridge. Will talk to the folks about it.
KevR
December 12, 2007
Member since 01/27/2004 🔗
786 posts
heard good things about copper.
fishnski
December 12, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
Snowshoe just sent me somthing on Copper..must be owned by same CO. I think My next bundle of Time ,energy & recources will be spent at Whistler though....
.The ice making it back this far this early in the winter is very significant...no matter how thick it is...That is our main cold scource & the radiational effect especially when the sun comes back up over the Arctic will help out our latter season here. The snow pack is also so very important..we are good in that dept too.
.....Yes Mr Snowsmith I do despise GW..(Thats Funny) Bush in many ways even though I did vote for him twice. For 2 complete different reasons that had more to do with His Dad & my complete dislike of the Clintons & that Kerry Dude & not bush himself... + What I know to be Very strong reasons why we had to dispose of Sadaam. Reasons that most liberal minded people are just blind to See & it is not worth even trying to explain to...There will always have to be some Shepards that just need to take action to save a whole lot of sheep...some of you will understand what i'm saying.......As far as GW is concerned there is not a scientist or computer out there that could compute all the factors that go into our weather...& not enough money in this world to try to offset what is or will be happening..so why try??...just sit back & watch the Face shots that you see Crunchy posting on another thread & think about the last 5 year way above snowfall ave for the ALPPS!.....This has been brought to you by the Great White Dope on Hope!....good last post though MR Smith...see ya!
snomonster
December 12, 2007
Member since 04/2/2005 🔗
16 posts
An update today on arctic ice.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washin...re_new_warning/

Its one thing to think of ice melting, but you cannot ignore the impact this summer melting is having on the ocean and land wildlife.
hockeydave
December 12, 2007
Member since 06/30/2004 🔗
772 posts
There is plenty of evidence from NASA that suggests Mars is experiencing global warming. The icecaps are melting and the average Martian temperature has increased 0.5 degrees C over the past 20 years. Last time I checked, Ford, GM and not even Toyota had a banner year selling SUVs there.

I think that many times, we as humans, being the highest in the food chain, assume we are way more important than we really are. Have we done bad things to the environment in the past? Yep. Have we been responsible for endangering species? Yep. But we can't even stop a local shower from ruining a Saturday morning golf game, so how in the he!! are we responsible for the icecaps melting. The nuclear reactor 92 million miles away is the dominant player when it comes to Earth's temperature cycles... dah!!!

Most people would agree that we should do everything we can to be good stewards of the only home that God gave us. That would include less polution from fossil fuels and use/invest in renewable energy sources for starters. But to assume we're causing this global warming, at least until there is hard evidence (not scientfic "consensus"), is simply preposterous.
skier219
December 12, 2007
Member since 01/8/2005 🔗
1,318 posts
As I mentioned before, definitive data is coming. The historical record coming via core samples is going to be a valuable contribution. Give it some time (though you can look at the current progress to get a hint of what they're learning).

One issue we run into when polar snow/ice melts is that it changes the heat absorption characteristics of the earth (known as the albedo effect) on a large scale. As skiers, we're all familiar with the albedo effect -- from Wikipedia:

"The classic example of albedo effect is the snow-temperature feedback. If a snow covered area warms and the snow melts, the albedo decreases, more sunlight is absorbed, and the temperature tends to increase. The converse is true: if snow forms, a cooling cycle happens. The intensity of the albedo effect depends on the size of the change in albedo and the amount of insolation; for this reason it can be potentially very large in the tropics."

In the context of the poles, the issue becomes a problem when snow/ice is replaced by darker land or darker seawater, both of which absorb a lot more heat from the sun.
snosnugums
December 12, 2007
Member since 04/10/2006 🔗
126 posts
I hate to be a downer since I come to this web site to escape reality but I recently watched a documentary called " A Crude Awakening" which goes into some scary detail about the worlds oil supply. This documentary is not a bunch of wackos but people from the oil industry talking about the ever increasing demand for oil while there are very few easily accessible large discoveries of new crude oil supplies. Local Congressman, Rosco Bartlet was interviewed for this documentary and this issue is one of his big concerns since we seem to be asleep in this country when in comes to energy conservation. I was in Spain and Italy for two weeks recently and everyone over there is driving motorcycles or tiny cars while we're driving these big gas guzzling SUV's. Additionally, the train system and public transportation there is so far advanced compared to the USA. Our Federal government has argue every year about a tiny little $1.0 billion subsidy to AMTRAK. In Europe you can get anywhere on a high speed train system, including the ski resorts. Did you know that Denmark is buidling an extensive array of wind turbines and hopes to be able to generate 25% of their electricity from wind.Every time someone proposes a wind turbine in this country someone complains that it will spoil their view. Thus if continue to burn oil likes there's no tomorrow, we won't have to worry about global warming. And for those of you who say, Well,technolgy will solve the problem, the documentary points out that it would take 50,000 new nuclear power plants to replace the amount of energy we get from the crude oil we pump out of the ground. I know I'm going to get alot of sarcastic comments about this post from the "lets just be dumb and happy" folks, but this is a serious problem that going to cost us skiers alot of money some day.
The Colonel - DCSki Supporter
December 12, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
3,107 posts
I am not getting into the new GW debate since I, like Scott, think it not a great subject for this forum, and far too subjective.
What I will comment about is the great train, bus, etc. transportation. First...they have been at it a lot longer than the U.S. Second, they have a tiny ground area when compared to the U.S. Yes, I wish we had high speed trains in this country, etc. But would you sit on one for three days to get to the West Coast? Chicago? So far only the mid Atlantic to NE can support major rail service. CA coming on strong.
The Colonel
\:\)
snosnugums
December 12, 2007
Member since 04/10/2006 🔗
126 posts
Tiny land area??? You better look at Map Quest again. All of Europe is pretty large with a land area that is at least 2/3 of the size of the US. We invented trains, thus I don't know what you mean that they have been at it longer. I will admit their cities are very old and not set up for autos. We just addicted to the freedom the sutomobile provides us, including myself. My point is that we are completely asleep here. We are not preparing for the inevitable. With that I'll shut up because I agree that this site is perhaps not the place to debate these issues. This will be my last post on this subject.
pagamony - DCSki Supporter
December 13, 2007
Member since 02/23/2005 🔗
840 posts
I can totally agree with this part:
 Originally Posted By: hockeydave
Most people would agree that we should do everything we can to be good stewards of the only home that God gave us. That would include less polution from fossil fuels and use/invest in renewable energy sources for starters.


this part bothers me:
 Originally Posted By: hockeydave
But to assume we're causing this global warming, at least until there is hard evidence (not scientfic "consensus"), is simply preposterous.


What exactly do you expect for hard evidence ? Perhaps you have watched too many CSI or Numb3rs episodes. Actual scientists incrementally expand the body of knowledge by study, hypothesis and experiment, which is also called 'collecting hard evidence'. They submit findings for brutal and competitive peer review and, in this context, publish papers which might have titles such as "A new computational model for surface reflection effect in dynamic atmospheric conditions", rather than "our concensus is that global warming is real." Hard evidence comes in small packages. While waiting for it, you might miss the hundreds of excellent papers published in journals such as Physics Review Letters, Computational Statistics, or Biometrika (these are my background, I don't know the climate change literature).

There is enough hard evidence on climate change that a significant scientific community has emerged. Following the process, there is and should be rigorous debate. If we wait for a "general relativity" sort of moment (which was experimentally confirmed many years later), we could miss the boat.

hockeydave
December 13, 2007
Member since 06/30/2004 🔗
772 posts
I'm not debating whether global climate change is occurring. I'm questioning the scientific "consenus" that we (humans) are causing it. I remember back in the late 70's during those very cold winters when many scientists were claiming we were entering an Ice Age.

Just one more piece of evidence where science/facts evolve as more detailed information is gathered: Pluto was long considered the 9th planet. Now it is merely categorized as the largest member of a distinct region called the Kuiper belt. Conclusion jumping can be a very dangerous sport.
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
1,369 posts
Hockeydave - we can easily measure how much carbon dioxide is in the atmosphere and we know what the properties of carbon dioxide are. There are literally, thousands of scientist who have studied this problem, we have world climate confernences, the Pentagon has recognized the problem , even the idiot that we have in the White House has confirmed it exists.Do you need someone to kick you in the crotch with evidence before you will acknowledge this issue. Now I realize people like Fishnski who live in some fantasy world are never going to spend the 5 calories it takes to read a substantive article on the subject. But the science is there and these folks have dedicated their lives to studying the subject. Do you realy believe this is some vast liberal conspiracy?

And Fishnski - on Iraq, a subject which you couldn't resist bringing up, I suggest you read a book called "Fiasco" which is a very well documented, well written history to our lead in to the War in Iraq. As far as the reason, that is easy. It can basically be decribed with one word "Oil". If you believe all the propaganda about "freedom" and "war on terror" , it was meant for you to believe that. And finally, I suggest you resist the urge to insult contributors to this webiste's political sensibilities, so we can have a message forum where we discuss skiing instead of Fishnski's political opinions. .
fishnski
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
AWWW You had to do it didn't you?...You know weakness invites another entity to take advantage of you & by trying to bite my tongue & actually throw you a nice comment you jumped on me.....Well let me tell you you weak kneed, peace at all costs wishy washy bleeding heart NAIVE..NAIVE.....blind to commen sense & realty peace of C..p....We went to war because # 1 Saddam violated his surrender agreement after he ruthlessly invaded Kuwait & just like you don't negotiate with terrorist you don't let a dictator get away with murder & then surrender when he is about to get his ass whipped Just so he can wave his sword at you again,,,,He had & WMD Rememmber the thousands of Dead Kurds??? & he never showed proof that he had got rid of them!!! We dicked around in the UN for too long giving him all the oppotunity to get rid of them...is that too hard for your pussy ass lib mind to figure out??....IRAN was his arch enemy..can you Imagine Saddam with all his power & wealth today watching Iran aquiring nuks that he wouldn't be feverishly doing the same....You should count your lucky stars that there are people with vision & strenth to look after our wellbieng....you go on thinking it was only about oil you brainwashed lamb,,,,you would head off into the gas chamber at auswitch thinking that thru negotiations at the last minute you will saved,,,what a jerk!!!
jimmy
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/5/2004 🔗
2,650 posts
 Quote:
even the idiot that we have in the White House.....




 Quote:
And finally, I suggest you resist the urge to insult contributors to this webiste's political sensibilities, so we can have a message forum where we discuss skiing instead of Fishnski's political opinions. .


Snowsmith, I suggest you take your own advice and resist the urge to insult contributors political sensibilities, oh I know NAHNAH AH andy started it, anyone who does not completely agree with you must be an idiot. Take your own advice, take a deep breath, grow up, i'm gone.
kwillg6
December 13, 2007
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,036 posts
Gee, this is beginning to sound like Thanksgiving dinner with my family ... such a loving group. Maybe this is why I don't talk about owlgore, W, and other such non cents while visiting here. As a good old friend of mine once said... best 2 no the fuel B4 lighting the fire. ;\) If it's not related to snow, pow-pow, or beer, don't discuss it here. \:D
fishnski
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
NAHNAH AH Andy..wach U talkin bout Willis?...I owe you a pitcher of beer at TL pub for that last post of yours!...& Kwill ..can I ask you why you needed to refer to Al as Owl?...You feeding something?...How bout this kwill since you are so disturbed by this # 1...Don't respond..go on to another thread...IGNORE...but since you just like to read this stuff & always are willing to pipe in...I will say to everyone that a conservative will outski a lib..ANYDAY!..that help this post?
Leo
December 13, 2007
Member since 11/15/2005 🔗
279 posts
Watch you talkin' 'bout, fool?

Watch you talkin' 'bout, everyone?
kwillg6
December 13, 2007
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,036 posts
maybe, maybe not.
tromano
December 13, 2007
Member since 12/19/2002 🔗
998 posts
"Now, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, Sir!"
Roger Z
December 13, 2007
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
SO.... how about that arctic ice? Any updates?
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
1,369 posts
Yes we need to move on from this emotional subject. But I'll challenge a flabby ass conservative to a ski race any day of the week. While us liberals were eatin' granola and tofu and hiking the wilderness, you conservatives were drinkin' Bud and eatin' Bloomin' Onions at Hooters and watchin the Deadskins gettin' their behinds whooped from your Barko lounger. Thus we are ready. When ever your ready, I'll drive my Toyato Prius Hybrid to the local sustainable ski area to challenge you any day.
kwillg6
December 13, 2007
Member since 01/18/2005 🔗
2,036 posts
"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." -William James

and may I add....
"The middle of the road is all the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
hockeydave
December 13, 2007
Member since 06/30/2004 🔗
772 posts
Snowsmith - Being old & fat, I absolutely know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bloomin' Onions are served at Outback Steakhouses and not at Hooters. "Stick to Facts, Sir!"
David
December 13, 2007
Member since 06/28/2004 🔗
2,444 posts
Up until now I have found this thread nothing but a useless waste of time (although the name calling cracks me up). This thread has now given me some inspiration...Kwill, thanks for this quote, it describes me so well and is the point that I try to get across to people every day....

 Originally Posted By: kwillg6

"The middle of the road is all the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
fishnski
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
I got at least 20 more fiery posts pent up in me but I'll pass out of respect to....whoever needs it.....I hear the applause..thankyou..thankyou very much....Don't test me!!
Roger Z
December 13, 2007
Member since 01/16/2004 🔗
2,181 posts
Hey, after a week of hiking in the wilderness and communing with nature, there are few things I like more than drinking beer and watching football while being served by half-naked women. Jimmy- am I wrong on this one???
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
1,369 posts
Fishnski - I didn't hear any applause so you may be hearing the sound of some ego deflation and I too had to hold back some of my best material. Perhaps some other day.
I'm about 6'6" 240 lbs, so you may hear me ski by you one day. I'll buy you a beer at Hooters or an equivalent establishment.
David
December 13, 2007
Member since 06/28/2004 🔗
2,444 posts
 Originally Posted By: snowsmith
I'm about 6'6" 240 lbs



Just thought I would throw in my .02. Scroll up a few posts to where you were calling people fat. Maybe that is your inner self crying out? Maybe not? But I did you a solid anyway and check your BMI according to the stats you provided. Sorry about your luck but it looks as if you need to shed a few pounds. You are overweight my friend. Its ok though. We all need to get in the gym.

You scored a 27.7, which does fall in the "Overweight" range. Hopefully the holiday season doesn't push you up to the obsese region ( >30 ).

http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/


Your welcome for everything. I am just glad I can help.
fishnski
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/27/2005 🔗
3,530 posts
Snowsmith..The applause I was talking about was from the likes of you & anyone that was glad to hear that I was going to shut up....once again you cannot hold your breath & ASSumed again & continue to torture these good folks with your BS....Your 6.6 240lbs don't intimidate me one bit...I'm 6.2 238lbs & have sparred in the toughest gyms in DC..I could drop you with 1 body punch After I dance all over your face...I'll let you know when I'll be back up at TL & you can try me....You just couldn't let it go....Stay tuned
David
December 13, 2007
Member since 06/28/2004 🔗
2,444 posts
Wow...this thread is getting out of hand. Moderator.....Oh moderator, please get rid of this...


BTW Andy, you are worse off than him. Your BMI is 30.6. That is obese. Did you know that obesity can lead to a laundry list of health issues, such as heart disease, diabetes, and cancer (to name a few)??
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
1,369 posts
Fishnski - Come on! I wasn't being serious. I'm not even 6'6" and 240, thank god. Maybe it's time to end this post. We have obviously struck a nerve here. Maybe we're all going batty with the rain,sloppy ski conditions.It's easy to write this stuff from a distance and get angry but what are we really accomplishing. Name calling and this other stuff is for the birds which we should forget at this point and just move on to a lighter subject (not my weight obviously). What do ya say!
kennedy
December 13, 2007
Member since 12/8/2001 🔗
792 posts
Is this a private fight or can anyone join in?
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/15/2004 🔗
1,369 posts
Have you ever seen the movie, "The Quiet Man" with John Wayne. He is a boxer who punched some guys so hard during a fight that he killed him. He can't deal with the fact that he actualy killed somebody, so he moves to Ireland and to make a long story short, he gets into a fight with the brother of the women he is trying to court and one those Irish charater actor says excitedly at the start of the fight, "We've got ourselves a donnybrook!". Great film!
tromano
December 13, 2007
Member since 12/19/2002 🔗
998 posts
 Originally Posted By: Roger Z
Hey, after a week of hiking in the wilderness and communing with nature, there are few things I like more than drinking beer and watching football while being served by half-naked women. Jimmy- am I wrong on this one???


If watching foozball while drinking a beer and being served by half naked women is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
Tucker
December 13, 2007
Member since 03/14/2005 🔗
893 posts
...Fat Terrorist groom over fresh pow pow...
JohnL
December 13, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
 Quote:
Is this a private fight or can anyone join in?


I've always thought that is one of the funniest lines of all time.

I'll think I'll have to add the Irish to the list of coolest people to hang out with. The Canucks and Aussies are already on the list.
JohnL
December 13, 2007
Member since 01/6/2000 🔗
3,518 posts
 Quote:
...Fat Terrorist groom over fresh pow pow...


Fat Terrorist falls and grooms half of White Lightning...
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