7S Update
October 20, 2006
52 posts
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I was up at 7S over the weekend. There ar e acouple of changes going on up there. (Pics to follow)
-7S has cut the skier's left portion of alpine glades. The AM glades is one of my fav spots on the mountain and I am curious abotu how this may improve that part of the hill.
They have removed probably 1- arcres of trees from the far skiers left portion of the glades. Now they appear to be smoothing the cleared areas and adding snow making. The area where they are cutting / building is seperated from the old AM slope by about 10 meters width of trees left standing. This additional snow making should increase the coverage in the glades which are already wind loaded with a NE exposure. And the trail its self goes right down the gully so it looks to have some fun lines.
-7S Adding a new lift on the upper mountain. The lift connects the top of waner lift to the top of Lake Tahoe. This is apparently designed to service the southwind development. It also will provide an additional lift for those who don't want to take the surface rope in the terain park.
The trees were cut to make room for the new Superpipe. The snowmaking is for the pipe.
Word is, if you are not staying in Southwinde, you don't get to use that lift or ski the trails there. Too bad, that would be prime level 2 teaching terrain for us.
are they filling in the old pipe? I'm all for new features but not at the expense of glades. I love me some glades, pretty much my favourite type of terrain. Superpipe, eh I'll take it but it's kind of a so what thing for me. Same goes for park. Parks are fun if you're bored of the rest of the mountain. I could never see myself going to Colorado or Utah and doing anything more than 1 or 2 runs in the park. Freeride is just so much more satisfying.
What I've been told is the original small pipe on Sunset will be put back in along with the old rope tow. The new Superpipe will be on skiers right of Alpine, skiers left of the remaining glades. A terrain park is planned for the top flat area above Alpine, along the Alpine Pass area, where nobody really ever skied.
The new pipe that was built last year will not be put back in play this season. It had no snowmaking to keep it alive. No idea on the rest of the past parks.
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The trees were cut to make room for the new Superpipe. The snowmaking is for the pipe.
Word is, if you are not staying in Southwinde, you don't get to use that lift or ski the trails there. Too bad, that would be prime level 2 teaching terrain for us.
Alpine is one of my favorite glades at 7S and generally has some of the best natural snow. I think they get a lot more wind loading in there than the other glades and trails. I am cuious to see what the result is when they start blowing snow and making terrian features.
As for the southwinde only lift, that seems a little strange. Do they giv e a special lift pass? How will that work?
No idea on how the Southwinde lift pass will work. This is just what we were told last year by their sales office (under previous ownership I might add). Whether this stands or not is to be seen. I think it will be tough to hold up personally. Imagine if I have a student that wants to ski there and is staying there? Will I be denied taking them where they want to learn/ski? What if I'm doing Jr. Ski one day and 3 of my 6 kids are staying there and want to ski there? I can't imagine segregating a small section of terrain. All questions that will probably be officially answered soon I hope.
One thing I can say is; after meeting the new owner a few times this Summer, I expect great things in the near future from Seven Springs. Mr. Nutting is very open minded and seems to be a real go-getter. I think he will take us where we need to be in the next few years. I'm sure we'll have growing pains here and there, but the end result IMO is going to be excellent.
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The new Superpipe will be on skiers right of Alpine, skiers left of the remaining glades. A terrain park is planned for the top flat area above Alpine, along the Alpine Pass area, where nobody really ever skied.
TaylorMatt: Do you know if there are plans for a dedicated rope- or handle-tow for the terrain park above Alpine? It would seem that with a new park up there, plus the Superpipe to the skier's right of Alpine, plus the normal traffic on Alpine itself - all of that might add up to a fairly long line for the Blitzen lift. Generally the BLitzen lift can provide an escape from lines on a busy weekend.
Nope, I have not heard anything about a surface lift for the park.
At least Springs gets it...I have been saying this for years. If they do it right, it will bring even more business, as if they don't have enough...does Nutting want to buy HV too?? We could only be so lucky....
How you been bud? Long time no see. PM me or call me sometime.
Going to be up October 7/8 for the refresher....we are going to try and throw together a party for Satuday night...interested?
Nah, I never party.
Give me a shout.
There was some info about the Muttings in this month's Ski Mag. Just back ground stuff, but they sound like a cool family.
I was up at the Springs' today for the Willi's Ski Sale (I picked up a pair of K2 Apache Recons) and Autumn Fest. I must say that I was a bit shocked to see most of the wonderful Alpine Meadows Glade stripped of trees for what I guess is going to be the new terrain park/superpipe. I know progress is a good thing and whatnot but geeze, did they have to rip out that uncrowded, sunny, soft-snow upper-blue glade to do it? I guess I'm fast becoming a relic
Being the positive person I am however, I am going to take this as a sign of future good things to come from the Nutting family.
I have to say it kind of sucks to hear they're ripping it out. I don't know of any other mountain in the region that has true glades i.e. the kind that won't get your ticket clipped. I'd have preferred to see them look at revamping their current park than tear down glades for a new one.
I was also at Willi's sale on Sat (bought a pair of Tecnica Diablo boots), and I was also not prepared for how many trees are gone from Alpine Meadows Glades (pretty much all of them, basically). I don't count myself as a 'tree hugger' (too much political baggage there for me), but I have to admit I was a little taken aback.
However, is it my imagination or have the trees between Stowe and Tyrol been cleared underneath to make that area worthy of the term 'glades'? On the lower half of those two slopes the area underneath the trees looks a good bit more clear than in the past.
Wow, you guys are harsh. I was a doubter about the new management doing anything, now they are doing something that apparently had professional input, and everyone is complaining! I'm certainly not an expert, but seems new management is actually spending money on the mountain for recreational use, not just real estate. Seems they should get some kudos for this
Yea, that's too bad. I always liked that area, it gave you an alternative to the wide open slopes on the North Face. Let's hope the new owner's future moves will be better.
Alpine was one of the best glades on the hill. Its a shame that they had to build the terrian park there of all palces. However I think that there is plenty of room to improve in other areas to make up for it. For isntance, finish clearing out the turtle neck glades and the glades on skiers right of Northface. Taking a few mobile guns to blow a little bit of base in marked glades. Adding additional gladed trails between Avalanche and goose bumps is also a great idea.
Harsh? My best memories of 7S are from Alpine Glades.
Glades between goose bumps and Avalanche? Is to tell more.
I think what made the Glades so great is exactly what they need for the park, a sheltered area that wont get icy and receives the blowing snow....as opposed to the park right of North Face which was icy 80% of the winter..i hate to the Glades cut down though...one of my fav things was to park below and have the Glades as the last run before home
I was in such a hurry to get up there and snag some new skis that I forgot my camera. But I think there are now even more trees gone than shown in Queen's pics. The stand at the bottom is now gone if my memory is still intact.
Harsh? I think not. Just sad to see an old friend go. The first powder skiing I ever did was through those trees back in the early 70's when all they had over there was a poma. It was always a great place to finish the day.
There is always hope that more gladed terrain will be cleared at the Springs. A nice gladed area was created next to the Yodeler trail when it opened last year which benefitted from the adjacent HKD's.
My point is to look at the big picture that the new owners have finally sent a signal that they are willing to spend money on the resort to improve it. This is not some uninformed change they did (as some of you are implying) Did you read the press?
"To ensure the absolute best quality of the new attractions, Seven Springs has obtained the services of Planet Snow Design, the same design company that has been responsible for designing many of the industries top event venues such as the U.S. Open and 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic Superpipes. The resort has also purchased a second Zaugg grooming machine to allow for the extensive grooming of the new Superpipe, making it the only resort in the mid-Atlantic and one of only two in the East to make this significant investment to operate two Zaugg grooming machines."
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My point is to look at the big picture that the new owners have finally sent a signal that they are willing to spend money on the resort to improve it. This is not some uninformed change they did (as some of you are implying) Did you read the press?
I write this with the full knowledge that ski resorts representatives often do read these forums. Its nice to see an investment and I am sure the park will be enjoyable for many. Heck I may be one of them. However at at present my opinion--and apparently for many DCskiers--is that this is an investment that we didn't want to see made.
If 7S removes the alpine glades (it is not clear to me how much will be left at this point) and don't improve the other glades on the mountain it will be a real blow to the natural snow skiing at 7S. I am waiting to see what develops.
I agree it's good to see a new owner come in and immediately show that they are going to take an active role in their new acquisition rather than sit there and let it stagnate while trying to get as much out for as little put in as possible. I think the feeling is though did it have to mean taking out such a unique and obviously much enjoyed trail. Like I said there is very little marked glade area around here so losing any of it is a bit of a blow. But if they really do listen then maybe something they should consider is making an effort to open more gladed terrain. Whereas many people look for more bump terrain personally glades are probably one of my favourite terrain types.
I have to agree with everyone that removing the Alpine Glades is a bad move. Changing something just for the sake of change is not always good. Proof: The Nuttings change the Pirates lineup every year (e.g. Jeremy Burnitz, Joe Randa) and look where that's got them --- 14 consecutive losing seasons.
It was my favorite area to ski at the Springs, especially after a fresh dump of natural snow. It was one of the few areas on weekends where one could escape the masses. Why 7S didn't use the far right slope (looking down) on North Face for this park is beyond me. It rarely is skied due to the ice (caused by the howling wind due to, you guessed it, a lack of trees on North Face). The only true natural ski experience left in Western PA is @ Laurel Mountain, but as every day passes, it looks like that experience ain't happenin' again this year.
Folks - Mr. Nutting is more of ski fanatic than any of us! He has skied over 500 ski areas. Now who would you rather have running a ski resort, a real estate mogul or a guy who is obsessed with skiing? I say the later. Granted, I don't like to to see the removal of these glades, especially since the mountain has so much open terrain. But look at the alternatives - they could have built the super pipe in the middle of the North Face or another undesirable location. Quite frankly, enough wining!!!!!!!
With all due respect Snowsmith, I know a few guys who have played over several hundred very nice golf courses, but they aren't the least bit qualified to offer suggestions for improvement or operate any golf course (or for that matter a putt-putt). So IMHO, the argument that Mr Nutting has skied over 500 resorts doesn't carry much weight with me concerning his ability to "improve" 7S.
Since Roundtop got rid of it's SP, i know where i'll be riding this season.
Seeing as the Nutting famiy have just taken over and to date we have no track record on how they'll perform long term I'm going to hold out hope that taking out the Alpine Meadow glades will be offset by future improvements (as long as such imrovements don't involve cleaning up The Foggy Goggle, you can't improve perfection). While personally I couldn't care less about a superpipe I know many people will see it as a huge addition. I'm hoping that long term there are plans to maybe open new terrain, new glades, maybe some new cushions in lieu of those hard plastic seats on some of the lifts. I'm still kind of out to lunch on how this new owner will perform.
With all my reservations wrt the Nutting family's decision to take out the Alpine Glades, I have to admit the Alpine slope and glades is probably the least utilized terrain at 7S.
I too am hopeful that with only 2 or 3 family members in the Nutting family (unlike the Dupres with approximately 30 having some form of ownership), I think any decision regarding improvements will happen much quicker. I also hope that extra terrain will be added soon (e.g. Great Western).
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With all my reservations wrt the Nutting family's decision to take out the Alpine Glades, I have to admit the Alpine slope and glades is probably the least utilized terrain at 7S.
You took the words out of my mouth. I love the glades as much as anyone. I am hopeful that there will still be some stashes to be found. It will help the mountain in other numerous ways. Hopefully it will alleviate some of the congestion on the N. Face and Polar Bear lifts. It will also utilize one of the most underutilized lifts. For those that do not know the Blitzen chair, which services Alpine slope, it oldest existing chair lift at the Springs. The glades at the top on skiers left are still untouched. I am heading up this weekend and if I have time I will take some additional pictures.
The feedback that I have received on the Nuttings to this point is all positive. They are instituting a code of conduct for the employees, this in my opinion is long overdue. While the majority of the folks that work there are pleasant there are many who seem to think you are there for them not the other way around.
Also there will be a dress code that must be adhered to for all uniformed employees. Again a positive in my opinion. I should know more after this weekend.
I just got back from a motor tour of the Alpine Meadows/Super Pipe makeover. What glades are left are but a hint of what once was there. Starting from right behind the small impoundment pond from there to the chairline across the first cutback down to the sign that marked the lowest of the Alpine Meadow Glades skiers right from that sign back to the chairline, a triangle swath of trees with the narrow point at the chairline are all that's left of the Glades.
To the skiers left of the sign including the original rope tow line, the trees have been cleared and several rows of snowmaking towers now line the area up to the top of the hill to the trail that empties at the upper parking lot and Lost Boy Trail. That whole area will be unrecognisable once all the park features are in place.
This is indeed a sizeable investment and should be a park rat mecca.
I guess I'll find some other quite patch somewhere.
just got back from the mountain....forgot to take the camera...I did meed Bob Nutting though....big anouncement coming soon about the backside...great news...stay tuned...
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big anouncement coming soon about the backside...great news...stay tuned...
OK....this will have me on the edge of my seat until the announcement. I would assume that if there were any type of construction on the backside (lift/snowmaking/clearing for glades, etc) someone on this board would have spotted it and posted by now(?)
The gunnar lift was still a 3 seat fixed grip last I looked!
Look for an announcement soon. Nothing will really happen until next season though. Remember, Mr. Nutting only took over 3 short months ago.
I just heard on Channel 11 local noon news that Seven Springs has withdrawn their request for a gambling license. (just FYI)
I just wen mtn biking up at 7S for the first time last weekend. The trails up there are awesome and I had alot of fun. I am noob biker and bushwacker helped kick my butt the first day. See you next saturday!
One potentially interesting thing I noticed is that they have just recently widend the corkscrew trail. You know the switchbacks between goodbumps and avalanche. Its been widend to ~15 ft and graded pretty smooth too, seeded, Hmmm... I wonder why they would be working on a bike trial in october? hmm... its a mystery.
It is surprising that somehow they didn't figure out a different way to structure this and just pulled out. I would think that slots have been a major justification to invest in all the proposed upgrades. Wonder what impact it will have on all their plans?
Still more to come...non slots related....
How 'bout new terrain to the skiers left of Gunnar (also left of Lost Girl), below Turtleneck Glades? Near as I can tell by snooping thru tax records on fayetteproperty.org, Seven Springs appears to own about 690 acres of land over in that direction. There is also some logging/clearing going on over there - I took a ride up Neals Run road last weekend - mighty curious area to be clearing.
Just my 2 cents.
Apparently there was a $5M non refundable application fee for the slots license, so it is costing someone, either the Dupre's or Mr Nutting, $5M not to not do anything!
I guess without slots, we'll see no terrain development on the other side of Gunnar (The Great Western).
Also, there was a rumor floating about a possible new lift on the North Face Slope (a high-speed quad or 6). I think a High-speed 6 on the North Face Slope is more critical at this point than terrain expansion, but terrain expansion is a way to sell property so I suspect the priority is terrain expansion. Sadly, with slots the resort might have been able to finance both....
I would imagine as part of their due diligence, the Nutting family must have taken the slots fee into account when they signed on the dotted line.
If I read this right and facts are correct, then the fee would have been paid as part of the application submission. It was, therefore, already paid or (financed as part of the general obligations of 7S, Inc.) prior to the purchase and so should not materially affect Mr. Nutting's cash on hand, cash flow, or financial obligations. And, as mentioned above, the accountants certainly were aware of it, as well as the prohibition on gaming interests by an NFL ownership group, as part of the prepurchase analysis.
No worries
...and we will likely see some significant upgrades over the next couple of years!
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No worries ...and we will likely see some significant upgrades over the next couple of years!
I initially supported the slots idea because of the preceived increase in revenue, and the assumption that it would mean upgrades to the mountain. But my sense now is that Mr. Nutting has enough $$ to make significant upgrades without gambling, so I'm not terribly sad to see the application withdrawn.
