DCSki Forums

Roger Z

November 29, 2005

Member since 01/16/2004 🔗

2,181 posts

Andy, I was just thinking the same thing about all the Non-Support for Moonshine Mountain. Oh, sure, folks talk the talk, but just the other day I was meeting with a venture capitalist and this is how our conversation went:

Roger Z: So, in conclusion, you have: strip bars, doublewide trailers with illegal cable tv, moonshine, raucous ATV events, radical skiing, and Crush manning the ski patrol. In the investment world that you dabble in, Mr. Venture (editor's note: really, this guy was a venture capitalist and his last name was Venture. A. D. Venture. I mean, how much more ironic does it get???), they have a name for an idea like this, and that name is "easy money." So, are you in? Or are you in?

Mr. Venture: Well, Roger, this plan really is brilliant. In all my years of funding bio-techs, nano-techs, parto-techs, and all sorts of other techs-

Roger Z: We'd be happy to rename it Moonshine Tech if you'd like to keep your streak going.

Mr. Venture and Roger Z, together: Ha ha ha ha.

Mr. Venture: That was a good one, Roger! Well, anyway, as I was saying, I've never seen a moneymaker like this. Except for Bill Bright's Almost Heaven venture.

Roger Z: Almost Heaven? On Mount Porte Crayon?

Mr. Venture: Why yes, how did you know that?

Roger Z: We've got this guy on DCSki named Andy who is ready to burn the timber down on that mountain if it will expedite development there!

Mr. Venture: Well, that's the rub. I was ready to put almost a billion dollars down and buy off some key politicians to expedite the permitting processes- heck, I was even going to get the EPA to declare a hunting season on that damn salamander- but you see, there was this problem.

Roger Z: What's that?

Mr. Venture: Well, there just wasn't enough support on DCSki. So I nixed the idea. After all, no matter how sound a business idea, the lack of support from DCSki is always a deal killer in my books.

Roger Z: But we've got an entire topic thread devoted to Moonshine Mountain!

Mr. Venture: Yes, Roger, and the Untopic is a fine site- except for your stupid posts about Virginia Tech (editor's note: turns out Mr. Venture was a WVU grad)- but it's not enough. We just don't hear the energy coming out of DCSki to start Moonshine Mountain OR Almost Heaven. So we turned Bill Bright away, because there wasn't enough support from a message board in cyberspace for his idea.

Roger Z: breaks down weeping.

So, sorry to break it to you Andy, but our unsupport has done in the project. I hear Bill Bright tore his hair out when he found this out. 'Tis pity.

bawalker

November 29, 2005

Member since 12/1/2003 🔗

1,547 posts

*whistles while putting the check back away into the checkbook...*

fishnski

November 29, 2005

Member since 03/27/2005 🔗

3,530 posts

I think the damage has been done. 6 years of hyping Canaan valley to anyone who would listen as i rode up & down the elevaters in DC as a courier & then every time i ride up a chair lift.In fact the 30 times i rode up & down those glorious 500' of verticle at Wisp the response to the Idea of an "Almost heaven" ski area was 95% positive! The other 5% just couldn't stand my breath I think! So you are right Mr Z unfortunately the "UNSUPPORT" of DCSKI probabally will not have an influence on any future dev of MPC or Tory for that matter.In fact nobody had even heard of DcSki on wisps lift or had even heard of MPC...I even had a couple of people stopping me in the parking lot asking for the web adress & the name of the Mtn. The big money Knows though...They have been up in thier helicoptors & are doing their homework...I'll will just have to take all my profits from the sell of my new home & move to MOONSHINE MTN!!!??!

Roger Z

November 29, 2005

Member since 01/16/2004 🔗

2,181 posts

There's always room at Moonshine for the displaced, dispossessed, disillusioned, and just plain dissed.

jimmy

November 30, 2005

Member since 03/5/2004 🔗

2,650 posts

Andy, ur right i guess, look at all the positive changes Tline has implemented due to all the constructive criticism from dcskiers

i don't understand the lack of support for almost heaven MPC. What????? 2000' vertical??? right here in the wv alps??? u gotta be kidding me??? Who wouldn't want it? Probably even the 5% with the sensitive ol factories would too if you'd gone lightly with the garlic roasted salamander, or they might have bin the folks who'd prefer more of a MSM experience.

I think the real question is who'll be first, Bright or Marsh?

fishnski

December 1, 2005

Member since 03/27/2005 🔗

3,530 posts

Jimmy..How long you been posting here? My 1st post on DCSKI as "Andy" was a few moments after JohnF broke the story on Bill Bright trying to get MPC & "Almost Heaven" going.It hit me like a ton of bricks...WOWWWWWW! My Dream come true..Blasting off a post to my "fellow" skiers I could not wait for the Rebel yells & posts of pure ectasy at the prospect of seeing West Va see its full potential as a 1st class ski state. What followed was a blast so negative it blew me away! At 1st my 1st reaction was to blast back at these"skiers"...Calling them a bunch of Girly Men & such..After apologizing So they would at least respond to me We went back & forth For at least a week with who knows how many posts...More than the "untopic"! I have always been a "homeboy" Bieng from the Dc area & rooting for the Redskins & my West va Alps...the responses were as confusing as the having to deal with
dc area residents rooting for the dallas cowboys!!???! I have a feeling a lot of posters were just plain to rich & spoiled to get excited about a backyard ski area...Taxpayers money filling the pockets of DC Skiers means trips to Euorope & out West....Classy & exotic...West va?..Yeh right!..Beam up some of those earlier posts & let the record speak for themselves....PS RogerZ didn't want the ski area because he wanted to be able to CAMP THERE!!!..Luv ya mr. Z

jimmy

December 1, 2005

Member since 03/5/2004 🔗

2,650 posts

Hey andy, since around jan 04. I was away (skiing) when all that broke and yup coming back to that was like trying to read the holwe untopic(c) in one sitting and only drink five guineses..... the deer are bigger in the valley, u probably pass the candy dish before dinner? anyways, i posted some smarta$$ remarks but after finally realizing what a 2000ft mountain is all about, how rare in all the east i'm with you brutha, BRING ON ALMOST HEAVEN

See u on the 8th?

Roger Z

December 2, 2005

Member since 01/16/2004 🔗

2,181 posts

Yup. Still do. Plus deep forests have their own ecological benefits that edge forests don't. Most of the Roaring Plains is a deep forest and a lot of it wouldn't be if the ski area was built.

I'm officially agnostic about an MPC ski resort. I won't shed many tears if it gets built or vice-versa. Plus, this is such a tricky crowd that I have a hard time believing any ski resort can get built that will live up to this board's expectations. Rain will still fall in January, lifts will still break down, tickets will still be too expensive, glade skiing will still shred ski bases, expert runs will still be the last to open.

What I am somewhat serious about is finding a remote location and building a MRG/Whitegrass style ski resort. I envision a T-bar as the main lift, a base lodge that looks like its about to fall over, seldom groomed ski runs and a "take it when you can get it" attitude among a die-hard group of riders and skiers. Limited snowmaking, on and off skiing through the winter, but one helluva rush when the conditions are right. Lift tickets would probably be in the 40 dollar range (I'm envisioning this place opening in about 30 years, so that'd be like 15 dollars or so right now).

There's one mountain out in WV I've got in mind for this. About 1000 feet of vert and certainly one of the snowiest spots in the state. Of course, I'd have to get the money to do it, but that's what I'd want to see- a cheap place for locals and fanatics to go yuck it up on the deep snow days. That's what we're really missing around here; it'd be a blast to have a downhill version of Whitegrass.

tromano

December 2, 2005

Member since 12/19/2002 🔗

998 posts

roger have you visited hickory?

Roger Z

December 2, 2005

Member since 01/16/2004 🔗

2,181 posts

No, but I lived in upstate New York until I was 9. At the time, the state was chalk full of little places like Hickory- and there are still quite a few around. Bobcat and Plattekill, Big Tupper (I think it's still open), Swain, another one up by Canada who's name escapes me. Many of these have over 1,000 feet of vertical, 100+ acres of terrain and would be very large by Mid-Atlantic standards, but are just local hills upstate. I grew up skiing Snow Ridge- not much vertical but the second highest natural snowfall on the east coast. Just quirky little places with lots of personality.

fishnski

December 2, 2005

Member since 03/27/2005 🔗

3,530 posts

Was it the dwarf or who was it that muttered "We'll never make it..were doomed" It will pour rain in jan at Killington also! You just have a different agenda Z. I understand where you are coming from...you want a little playground in West Va & then head off to your "Vacation spot"! You got your little playground at Whitegrass allready....1200' of verticle from bald Knob.Thats to easy though for your pioneer mindset.That same mind that dreams about Moonshine Mtn....MPC is to traditional & whitegrass is allready there...People like me are up to our ears in these 700 to 1000' ski areas! We are searching for that bomb ass Mtn so that we can ski in peace forever.There are some of us who don't have the time or money or the desire to head off to these "vacation spots" We would just like to see the best that our own backyard has to offer & then if it has to pour in jan...so be it..cuz it will snow like Colora..I mean West Va in feb & the blizzards to follow in march...head west young man & take your chances...I spent a week at vail & didn't see a flake..but West Va was getting dumped on!!

Roger Z

December 3, 2005

Member since 01/16/2004 🔗

2,181 posts

You know, Andy, people can be opposed to this project for entirely non-selfish reasons, you just appear unable to acknowledge that. You have no equanimity in your argument and it discredits your whole position. I don't appreciate the fact that you're willing to run roughshod over every consideration to get what you want, including long time residents of West Virginia. You're not doing yourself any favors like that. Residents in the mountains already dislike city folks, the more they perceive that this is to advance the self-interest of Beltway bandits, the more you're gonna have a fight on your hands if MPC ever does get officially proposed.

As it is, Johnfmh and others (including the builders of Snowshoe) have laid out very sound reasons as to why this project may not be that great. You need to quiet down and start addressing concerns like those, or your mountain will remain just as much of a fantasy as Moonshine.

Scott - DCSki Editor

December 3, 2005

Member since 10/10/1999 🔗

1,249 posts

I hadn't been following this conversation until now.. Umm.. Is it too late to point out that DCSki as an entity has no opinion one way or another? (I'm probably the only one cringing at the literal interpretation of some of these sentences. And I understand folks are really talking about the opinions expressed by people on DCSki and not DCSki itself.

'Course, the first time I saw the subject of this post I braced myself thinking someone was about to tear into DCSki, the web site.)

- Scott

fishnski

December 3, 2005

Member since 03/27/2005 🔗

3,530 posts

I'm Ignorant to many aspects of what it takes to build a ski area, & you are right about peoples reasons & opinions,But i have studied that mtn & its weather more than anyone probably.It has what it takes & then some, so that part is covered.Did you know that there is more of a SW air flow during those upslope snow events (the mtn faces nw) How many people out there know that the snow actually builds or lays on the down wind side of snow fences? The main mtn holds snow just fine,the north rim open slopes could be landscaped easily to fix any blowing problem Ect'''Ect..." There is disagreement on everything in life...The proof will be in the pudding...anyway roger Can't the BABY get his way...WAHHHHHHHH!!! PEACE...I'm tired i'm going home now

Roger Z

December 5, 2005

Member since 01/16/2004 🔗

2,181 posts

That was a pretty impressive map. His arguments against detachable quads is mistaken though. You could just space the lifts at more distant intervals to reduce the skier traffic. That also gives you the option of increasing capacity on holiday weekends. Most of the trails couldn't have many tree stands, as nice as those would be, because of snowmaking requirements (particularly as you drop under 3500 feet). And there's no way every black could be gladed. That would confine 85-90% of the skiing market to skiing on just a few runs off the top. More importantly, you wouldn't ski on those glade runs more than a few weeks a year on average, so for the vast majority of the ski season EVERYONE would be on winding beginner runs off the summit.

They could use a couple intermediate runs on the map.

He did a very good job of outlining ways to steer most skiers away from that tricky drainage off the summit. It has a way of acting like a trap for far too many runs, so the novice alternative leading out from the summit is a great idea.

Most importantly, his design allows for a lot of play. With multiple base areas, you could ski from one area of the mountain to the next, making it feel larger than it really is (this was my impression of Solitude two years ago, anyway). He's right that viewsheds and forests need to be protected, so a few glade runs and some narrower entry points at the summit would be nice.

Not a bad job at all!

yellowdog

December 12, 2005

Member since 10/18/2004 🔗

45 posts

Heard some interesting news while at Timberline this past weekend. Bumped into the RE agent who sold us our house there and while catching up on local news I asked him about the Almost Heaven/MPC project. He said the latest was that Bill Bright had sold his interest in the two ski areas he was involved in and has sunk the money into AH/MPC. Moreover, has only one more tract to purchase to reach his goal but that the owner(s) were holding out.

The agent said this info was about 4 months old. Anyone have anything they can add to this?

Thx

Roger Z

December 12, 2005

Member since 01/16/2004 🔗

2,181 posts

Thanks for the info Yellowdog, and welcome to the board! I haven't heard anything, but I'd be happy to start making up rumors and passing them around... we seem to do that on occasion around here.

snowcone

December 12, 2005

Member since 09/27/2002 🔗

589 posts

I was told about a month ago that Bright had finally convinced the holdouts [cant remember the family name] to sell and the deal was in the works. The information was 2nd hand to me so your guess is as good as mine as to its accuracy. Who knows? Maybe wishing will make it so.