Looks good for Thanksgiving!!!!!
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langleyskier
November 15, 2005
Member since 12/7/2004
824 posts
Forecast is holding a steady cool pattern from this thursday to past thanksgiving! Looks like most of the larger resorts will be able to open for some turkey-day skiing!!!!!!!!
Chad
November 15, 2005
Member since 12/12/2000
270 posts
i see that snowshoe says they are turning on the guns. is anyone else? what about the poster here who makes snow in his backyard?
Snowmakers
November 15, 2005
Member since 11/23/2004
222 posts
That would be me.

This is my forecast, so needless to say, ive got snowmaking on my mind...



Tonight: A chance of showers, then periods of showers and thunderstorms after 3am. Low near 57. South wind between 11 and 15 mph. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New rainfall amounts between a tenth and quarter of an inch possible.

Wednesday: Periods of showers and thunderstorms before noon, then a chance of showers. Temperature falling to around 40 by 5pm. Breezy, with a west wind between 13 and 21 mph. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New rainfall amounts between a quarter and half of an inch possible.

Wednesday Night: A chance of rain showers before 10pm, then a chance of rain and snow showers between 10pm and midnight, then a slight chance of flurries after midnight. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 26. West wind around 17 mph. Chance of precipitation is 40%. New snow accumulation of less than one inch possible.

Thursday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 36. North wind between 10 and 15 mph.

Thursday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 21. North wind between 5 and 8 mph becoming calm.

Friday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 42.

Friday Night: Mostly clear, with a low near 25.

Saturday: Partly cloudy, with a high around 46.

Saturday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 28.

Sunday: Mostly cloudy, with a high around 47.

Sunday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 27.

Monday: Partly cloudy, with a high near 45.

Monday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low near 27.

Tuesday: Partly cloudy, with a high near 44.





Iv actually made snow 3 times already. First on Oct 26, Last Friday morning (1/2"), and Last Saturday (3")

This was saturday morn:






I plan to bring out my special weapon- My fanfun. Im gonna start building my base, so for updates, check my website-]


www.freewebs.com/boardersonly
Crush
November 15, 2005
Member since 03/21/2004
995 posts
snowmakers - I am just curious.... I know that some snowmaking systems chill the water before deploying it, but do any of them chill the compressed air. My idea is obvious; if you chill the air then upon release it should drop in temp like in an air conditioning expansion chamber. Mixed with water it should lower the mix temprature.

Also, is there a system that controls the humidity of the air itself? A drier air would yield different snow.

Also, most systems seem to mix the air and snow near the exit .... is there a system that pre-mixes the air/water and puts it through and expansion chamber before exiting the nozzle? If this were done it owuld lower the temp of the whole mix before exit, provided the air/water mix would remain turbulent enough (induce a vortex in the mix?) until exit.
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Snowmakers
November 16, 2005
Member since 11/23/2004
222 posts
Quote:

snowmakers - I am just curious.... I know that some snowmaking systems chill the water before deploying it, but do any of them chill the compressed air. My idea is obvious; if you chill the air then upon release it should drop in temp like in an air conditioning expansion chamber. Mixed with water it should lower the mix temprature.

Also, is there a system that controls the humidity of the air itself? A drier air would yield different snow.

Also, most systems seem to mix the air and snow near the exit .... is there a system that pre-mixes the air/water and puts it through and expansion chamber before exiting the nozzle? If this were done it owuld lower the temp of the whole mix before exit, provided the air/water mix would remain turbulent enough (induce a vortex in the mix?) until exit.





Chill the compressed air? Hmm. I dont think so. It is actually the expanding heat that gives a microclimate inside the plume.


Driers are commonly used at many-all ski resorts. The dry air keeps moisture from crystalizing on the inside of pipes and hoses.


An lastly, the air and water is kept separate until the very last moment. Theshorter the distance the mix has to go before expanding, the better. If they were mixed inside the pipelnes, there would be ice buildup on the insides, and so much turbulance that would yield to large nonfreezing drops. This is called spitting.



If you have any more questions, please ask.
POWPOW
November 16, 2005
Member since 05/10/2005
124 posts
Since this is what i did for many years ill bite.

Quote:

Chill the compressed air? Hmm. I dont think so. It is actually the expanding heat that gives a microclimate inside the plume




Well not quite, sorta. All air to be used for snowmaking must be cooled after its conversion to pressure. During this exchange heat produced during pressurization is very hot depending on the type of compressor Rotary Screw (most widely used now) discharges around 180F(older piston systems could be as high as 350F). So the air is sent through Aftercoolers to cool it to 37-42F. The coolers (depending on type) are like large radiators that run the air through fins through a Glycol/water mix and large fans run through the fins to cool the glycol,water. This action causes an large production of moisture and needs to be removed through a moisture separator before exiting to the pipes.

Quote:

Driers are commonly used at many-all ski resorts. The dry air keeps moisture from crystalizing on the inside of pipes and hoses



True. this effect of excess moisture is called Rime. This typically does not happen in hte piped but upon exit into the hydrant then especially in the air hose leading to the gun. This is a pain in REALLY cold extended weather and the only remedy once it starts to build up is stop the gun, reverse the air/water hoses and run the gun "backwards" for a min or two to let the water melt the rime away. You can imagine if you have a hundred guns going and this starts to happen.

Quote:

An lastly, the air and water is kept separate until the very last moment. Theshorter the distance the mix has to go before expanding, the better. If they were mixed inside the pipelnes, there would be ice buildup on the insides, and so much turbulance that would yield to large nonfreezing drops. This is called spitting.





This "premix" is not an option at all. The (ill give you Sugarbush numbers for comparison(thier old system before upgrade)) air pressure upon exit of system is 90 psi for optimal snowmaking there. In warmer weather higher is better (120psi) and colder weather less (82 psi) is needed because nucleazation at the gun is easier. The water leaving the pumphouse is 600-900 psi. the differences in the two could not be combined or at the gun you would get the water overpovering the air and then large burps of air would eventually come out but for sure there would be no snow made with this.Plus at many large resorts the water losses its "head" and needs to be pumped through another mid station pumphouse to get enough psi to get to the summit. Not so with the air. air is not subject to the same graviational pull as water.
Snowmakers
November 16, 2005
Member since 11/23/2004
222 posts
Quote:

Since this is what i did for many years ill bite.





Cool man, where did you work? I plan to work at the homestead next winter, then to snowsshoe for a while after HS to pay for a masters in meteorology.
Crush
November 16, 2005
Member since 03/21/2004
995 posts
Snowmakers and POWPOW -ty that was very interesting! My idea about mixing was from opening a chapagne bottle .. I thought that by somehow compressing a water/gas mix, on expansion it would sort of "fizz" and also lower the overall temp due to the expansion on exit.

But is there not another factor in this? I heard that a "seed" is added to the water, so the "snow" has a starter ctstal pattern to make up for the fact the "snow" has not condensed from a cloud or built up around a dust particle. This is an organic/bacterial element, yes?
Snowmakers
November 16, 2005
Member since 11/23/2004
222 posts
Quote:

Snowmakers and POWPOW -ty that was very interesting! My idea about mixing was from opening a chapagne bottle .. I thought that by somehow compressing a water/gas mix, on expansion it would sort of "fizz" and also lower the overall temp due to the expansion on exit.

But is there not another factor in this? I heard that a "seed" is added to the water, so the "snow" has a starter ctstal pattern to make up for the fact the "snow" has not condensed from a cloud or built up around a dust particle. This is an organic/bacterial element, yes?





Si senor. Many resorts add a nucleation aid to their systems before the pipelines are split. Things like snowmax (A company made snowmaking aid), Liquid ammonia, and many other proteins have all been used to aid in nucleation. POWPOW may have a longer list, but these are the things that I am positive that resorts may use.


You may read more about it here:

http://www.snowmax.com/products/snomax/index.htm
pagamony - DCSki Supporter
November 16, 2005
Member since 02/23/2005
830 posts
this is fun in a weird way, sort of ski porn.

but this...
Quote:

air is not subject to the same graviational pull as water.



... ain't right. air just has less mass so it requires less energy to move it the same distance against the common force of gravity. though one might postulate that southern skiing defies all reasonable laws of physics anyway, I don't think even the mighty intrawest has mastered string theory enough to manipulate the forces of nature.

so, is it snowing in them thar hills yet?
fishnski
November 17, 2005
Member since 03/27/2005
3,530 posts
Sugar Mtn,Nc turned on thier snowguns at 2pm wed nov 16th! Bet they will be open T-Giving & the long range F-casts with below normal temps should give them a good Sugerfest in Dec.Canaan Valley was hinting at a T-Giving opening & now with temps in the low 20's as i write I see no mention of any effort to do so on thier web site...any info anybody? Will be up in the valley T-giving week & would love to ski there...it would be a first!If canaan could open they were advertising a great deal of $129 per person for 3 nites lodging, 3 days of B-fast,A T-giving dinner & a 1 day lift ticket...Good deal..Skiing Wisp that weekend will probably be the ticket since the 2 valley areas cannot or just refuse to "GO FOR IT"
kennedy
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/8/2001
792 posts
7 Springs is blowing snow this morning.
Heather
November 17, 2005
Member since 02/24/2005
170 posts
Anybody know what the projected open date for 7S and HV may be for this year? Would love to take a few runs Turkey day weekend, but I am spoiled so I am kinda hesitant to drive any great distance!
Taylormatt
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/3/2004
339 posts
We were told at Sunday's meeting to be prepared to report for work Friday, November 25th. It looks like they just might make it. HV never opens until mid December. They just don't have the snowmaking to fire up early.
jb714
November 17, 2005
Member since 03/4/2003
294 posts
If the forecast bears out, they should be able to blow snow every night (with the possible exception of Sat night) between now and next Wed. 7 Springs can blow a LOT of snow in that amount of time.
snowcone
November 17, 2005
Member since 09/27/2002
589 posts
Got a Snowshoe email last night: They started blowing last night and intend to keep it up until T-day Wednesday. If the cold holds as predicted, Snowshoe should be able to lay down some serious base on the Basin side and maybe a few runs at Silver Creek.

Looks to be a really great start to the season.

What are the chances that 7S is blowing as hard as SS? We want to make some decent tracks over T-day.
BushwackerinPA
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/9/2004
649 posts
kennedy
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/8/2001
792 posts
If I remember correctly 7 Springs has a higher output than snowshoe and I'm not talking comparitively. They can actually produce more snow in a 24 hour period than sSnowshoe can. The only question I have right now is if they are running the guns for coverage or just as a test???
pagamony - DCSki Supporter
November 17, 2005
Member since 02/23/2005
830 posts
Come on now, just about every place in NC is blowin snow like mad. cataloochee opening something today at 1pm, others tomorrow and saturday. what's up with the valley? don't they have customers that want snow?

How about Wintergreen - technically closer for me than boone. nothing on their web site. anyone with more info?
Taylormatt
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/3/2004
339 posts
Quote:

If I remember correctly 7 Springs has a higher output than snowshoe and I'm not talking comparitively. They can actually produce more snow in a 24 hour period than sSnowshoe can. The only question I have right now is if they are running the guns for coverage or just as a test???




We don't fire the entire front side as a "test". We're up and running in preparation of opening at least the entire front face by next Friday.
BushwackerinPA
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/9/2004
649 posts
Yeah looks to be much more than test, could they open this weekend if they want to?
kennedy
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/8/2001
792 posts
WOOHOO Now to convince my significantly better half to make a side trip to PA after we visit her parents in Cumberland next weekend. I just got my board back from Willi's here in Fairfax (nice work BTW) I'm mounting my bindings this weekend.

Oh in addition, I don't know why my post is ending up in a quote box.
Taylormatt
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/3/2004
339 posts
Highly doubtful. 7S only owns 1 (maybe 2) compressors. The rest are leased and go online January 1st. That's when we are at 100% snowmaking capability and can really get down to business. IIRC, the back side is gravity fed until the leased compressors arrive so it's very limited now through December.

Even though all the guns are on for the front side, I don't think they are operating at full capacity yet.

They could probably shut down the majority of guns and only concentrate on two white ribbons of death on Wagner and Fawn to be open this weekend...but that's not how 7S likes to roll for opening day.
BushwackerinPA
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/9/2004
649 posts
So most of front face for the 25th you think?
Taylormatt
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/3/2004
339 posts
Yes, that's how they prefer to open. We don;t mess around with WROD's if at all possible.
SeaRide
November 17, 2005
Member since 03/11/2004
237 posts
WROD? May I ask what does WROD means?
BushwackerinPA
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/9/2004
649 posts
WROD = White ribbon of death, ala one or 2 ways down with multiple collisions.

which springs might be anyways...... but I will be there.
Taylormatt
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/3/2004
339 posts
White Ribbons Of Death (a small sliver of skiable terrain packed with hundreds of skiers to say you are "open")
SeaRide
November 17, 2005
Member since 03/11/2004
237 posts
Quote:

White Ribbons Of Death (a small sliver of skiable terrain packed with hundreds of skiers to say you are "open")




ahh.. so it means too crowded in the worst scenario. gotcha!
kwillg6
November 17, 2005
Member since 01/18/2005
2,020 posts
I checked the sods cam in the valley. There are suspicious white spots on what would be the lower dew drop/winterset area of t-line. Their cam is, of course, not working as usual.
jimmy
November 17, 2005
Member since 03/5/2004
2,650 posts
Ya Kim, see what u mean, think they've got the guns fired up?
Rickh
November 17, 2005
Member since 12/2/2004
130 posts
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