New Ski Question for the Board- help requested
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Roger Z
June 18, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Hi Guys (and Gals)-

Well, it has finally come to this. I have skied straight edges my whole life but unfortunately my Rossignol 7S' have been through one too many rock gardens at Blue Knob and out west to be good anymore. As a matter of fact, they are becoming downright dangerous: due to an unfillable gorge along the edge, the right ski instinctively jives across the hill, and I realized at Timberline (WV) this March that if I skied these babies one more season I was going to seriously risk a knee injury.

Consequently, I am now shopping for a new pair of skis- didn't mean to look until next year but these things happen. It also means that de facto I am making my first foray into shaped skis. I'm looking for some advice and was hoping that my buddies here could provide some...

Background info: I'm 6' 1", 225-230 lbs, 30 years old, been skiing since I was two. I ski slalom skis- chutes, moguls, crud, trees, powder, ice, hard pack, anything ungroomed is a gold mine in my book. Advanced/expert skier that enjoys tight turns and finesse as opposed to rugged power and high speeds. Will GS in powder because- well- you have to GS in powder (at least, that's a better way to ski it in my experience).

I've seen so far that the Rossignol B1 and B2 both look good, and since I liked the 7S so much I am predisposed to getting another pair of Rossignols (word on the street is that the 2006 model of the B2 is supposed to be stellar). The Dynastar Legend 8000 got a great review. However, I've also seen the Volkl 724 EXP recommended highly as the "ski for me." Well, a dealer said that and offered them at a great price. I had noticed the EXP before, but the price was so good and his recommendation so strong that those are now in the crosshairs as the potential next ski.

So, does anyone have any opinion on any of the skis mentioned above- are they worth getting for a tight turning off-groomer skier? Also- does anyone else have any recommended skis I ought to look at?

A couple of must haves- the ski MUST be able to handle moguls; it MUST have a good grip on ice; it MUST be comfortable in tight spaces. If there's a trade off, those are the three things that simply cannot be compromised.

Any advice would be very, very welcome.

ps- I know demoing a ski is the best way to go let's save that discussion for another day- actually, we can save it for about five years from now, and y'all can say "I TOLD YOU SO" over the fact that I didn't demo a ski.
AlpineZone
June 19, 2005
Member since 06/16/2005
5 posts
Quote:

I've seen so far that the Rossignol B1 and B2 both look good, and since I liked the 7S so much I am predisposed to getting another pair of Rossignols (word on the street is that the 2006 model of the B2 is supposed to be stellar). The Dynastar Legend 8000 got a great review. However, I've also seen the Volkl 724 EXP recommended highly as the "ski for me." Well, a dealer said that and offered them at a great price. I had noticed the EXP before, but the price was so good and his recommendation so strong that those are now in the crosshairs as the potential next ski.

A couple of must haves- the ski MUST be able to handle moguls; it MUST have a good grip on ice; it MUST be comfortable in tight spaces. If there's a trade off, those are the three things that simply cannot be compromised.

ps- I know demoing a ski is the best way to go let's save that discussion for another day- actually, we can save it for about five years from now, and y'all can say "I TOLD YOU SO" over the fact that I didn't demo a ski.



You really should demo...

The B1/B2, 724 EXP, and 8000 are all great skis. I've only demoed the EXP and liked it a lot. It likes to ski fast though so I son't know how well it's going to perform in the bumps or trees. You're trying to find a "ski-everything" ski and one simply doesn't exist, but from what I've read the Dyna 8000 comes the closest. The 724 line is a bit stiff, but the EXP is more forgiving than the Pro and at your size you should be able to muscle it around just about anywhere. I'd aim for a 177-182 cm length ski.

BTW, you should really demo...
Roy
June 20, 2005
Member since 01/11/2000
609 posts
Although I have not skied any of those 3, I can tell you the experiences of a handful of instructors. There are a few that have bought Dynastars this past year (but I don't think it was the 8000). They were bought to ski with more finesse and they have been very happy. These were new instructors and a couple had come off of straight skis.

I plan on demoing some this year but I still have at least 2 more years on my K2's. I have the K2 ModX and skied the newer version for 2005 (and the name is horribly escaping me).
AlpineZone
June 20, 2005
Member since 06/16/2005
5 posts
Quote:

I have the K2 ModX and skied the newer version for 2005 (and the name is horribly escaping me).



Apache?
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Roger Z
June 20, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Hi Roy-

What are your thoughts on the K2?

Anybody heard abuot the Volkl Supersport 5 Star? That one looks like it could be good as well.

AlpineZone you're right, I want an "all in one" ski. The all mountain expert ski seems closest as a category to fitting the bill... but it would seem to me that my requisite for good moguls, good tight turning, and good on hard pack should be obtainable in a single ski. Other than that I can muscle the thing into desired performance. Being a traditional skier (read: straight edge neanderthal), burning some thigh muscles is a natural part of the ski day.

Thanks for the tip and the Alpine Zone site is pretty cool!
Crush
June 20, 2005
Member since 03/21/2004
995 posts
dude there has been a lot written on this board about the 5 and 6 stars by Volkl. I have the 6 stars and they are awesome if you can handle them. Here is the thread:
Volkl thread
Roger Z
June 20, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Thanks Crush. I must have done my Board search before I heard about the 5 and 6 stars; no excuse for missing that discussion. It confirmed some other things I've read- the 5 star a bit softer and better in non-groomed conditions. Since I'm not into speed or groomers, I'd probably be happier with the 5 than the 6. Though all that hold on ice really sounds appealing.

Okay, that narrows the choices down a little. Dynastar 8000, Rossi B2 or B1, Volkl 724 EXP or the Volkl Supersport 5 Star. The 724 is getting close to falling off the list, too... and the B2 would only be this coming season's model. Hmmmmm...
Roy
June 21, 2005
Member since 01/11/2000
609 posts
Yes AlpineZone it's the Apache! I feel such a relief. The pressure in my brain...

Roger I really like my K2's. I demoed a whole bunch of skis (Rossignal Bandits, Head Monster, Salomon Scream just to name a few) and the K2's handled better in differeing conditions. I also had the advantage of skiing them at Whistler, where you have powder at the top, icy hardpack (re: east coast skiing) in the middle, and slush at the bottom. Out of all those skis, the ModX did better through all the differing conditions.

I've demoed the Volkls, however for only 1 run. They're like a bucking bronco. Boy it's fun but you have to learn how to control it.

The important thing to remember, no matter which ski you get, is to step it way down on the length. I have 175's and have skied that size since I've skied shaped skis (last 6 years). Recently, my demo size has been 162-168, depending on the ski. I wish I had bought that size. I can ski the 175 but I really seem to have more fun on the shorter ski.
comprex
June 21, 2005
Member since 04/11/2003
1,326 posts
Roger Z, how about a cheap dark horse: Volant Genesis Gold or Silver. Not as stiff as the Volkls (shouldn't you be looking at the AC3) and a bit damper. Alls the ice hold you could want, bumps capable, and $cheep$.

They were on close out at Sprats Aught for $230 I think; even STP gets them sometimes. I ski the Gold in 175cm (190lbs ski weight). They are _almost_ versatile enough for a week in Utah, too. CO certainly.

Less damp, but certainly everything else, incl. cheep on Ebay: Elan M555.

None of those are as carving-oriented as the 5 or 6*.
POWPOW
June 21, 2005
Member since 05/10/2005
124 posts
I would skip everything you have read and go with Scarpa T1 boots, G3 Targa bindings, and Karhu Jaks for a sweet tele setup and move on over to hte darkside
johnfmh - DCSki Columnist
June 21, 2005
Member since 07/18/2001
1,914 posts
Given your ski ability, I would shoot for a stiffer ski like the 6 Star (as opposed to the 5 star), but I would not be so quick to buy Volkls. They are great skis but like all things German in this country, they are a bit over-priced. I would certainly consider other brands.

However, with length, I would go shorter than 177-181. I really sweatted over my decision to buy 168s but I have not regretted it for a minute and have no desire to ever ski my G-31s (188s) again. Shorter skis are just much better in ungroomed, bumpy terrain, and to be honest, I have not seen a big difference on groomers either.
snowcone
June 21, 2005
Member since 09/27/2002
589 posts
I'm surprised my SI (shadow) hasn't posted here about his Volkl 5 Stars. He has been raving about those skis ever since he got them 2 seasons ago. Basically, for East coast skiing there is nothing better; their grip on ice and the craaap we usually ski around here is nothing short of phenomenal and on groomers like a knife thru warm butter. However, for deeper powder and some of the heavier conditions (Sierra cement?) out west he uses his Solomon 1080s and is happy as a mudbug. Its not that the 5 stars can't handle it, its just that they don't handle it as well as a nice mid-fat does. He also has a pair of Volkl 724s he has ridden only twice. He feels that they only comes into their own on long fast GS slopes like Jordanelle, but someone else may have a different opinion.

Important! Because Volkl is switching production to China after being purchased by the K2 people (see EpicSki http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=27647 ) you might want to jump on it if you decide to go with Volkl. I understand that there were 6000 pairs produced in Austria this season ... maybe the last of the good stuff. My daughter and I both ride Volkl Gammas and love them. I am contacting Ski Center this week to put in an order for Gamma 5 Stars before they are all gone and SI is thinking of ordering a backup pair of 5 or 6 Stars.
JohnL
June 21, 2005
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
DC Ski Article on 6 Stars

Roger Z,
At 225-230, you are 30+ pounds heavier than most skiers on this board, so I would go longer than 168 cm in the 6 Stars. A qualified sales rep would be able to choose the right length for you for a particular ski model.

6 Stars, 5 Stars, B1/B2, Legend 8000, K2 Apache, Elan M555 are all good skis and worthy of demoing. The Mid-Fat category of skis will be better out West, but the Cross/East-Coast All Mountain skis will be better on hardpack. Both categories are enjoyable under most conditions.

Here's the rub. You don't want to spend top $$ on a new pair of boards without demoing them yourself. But if you've never skied shaped skis before, your very first impressions of any shaped ski will probably be negative since it is different from what you are used to. How different depends upon your current set of skills, which is impossible to evaluate over the web. Good skiers naturally adapt their skiing to handle the requirements for each set of skis. The learning curve may be as short as a run or two, more likely on the order of several days of skiing, but may take as long as a season.

An option to consider (similar to what Comprex suggested): buy a pair of used/discontinued shape skis cheaply over the Net or at a ski swap. The skis may not be the "exact" ski for you this year, but they'll likely be good enough and certainly better than your damaged skis. Use the new skis for a year or two until you get used to shaped skis and can then determine exactly what you want to ski on for 5+ years. Pay the $$ for that second set of skis.

You'll find that many top-line modern skis don't skid too well, especially when compared to old school straight boards.
Roger Z
June 21, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
First off, this is all extremely helpful so thanks everyone for posting up. Comprex, I looked at the Volant Gold and Silver briefly and forgot why I stopped looking at them; I'll take another gander and check the reviews (added bonus: in addition to being cheaper they are more likely to be in stock this autumn).

POWPOW Tele skiing is next, but I need to get up to 20 days or more per year before I do so. I don't want to do a complete 100% hop, since the first couple years are likely to be frustrating. Therefore, I need to be skiing much more often than I am right now to make the transition; if I get out west next year I may look into it.

And JohnL, that was a great point about getting a used pair of skis. I've thought about that before but am a little worried about the condition- if they're in good shape then no problem. Which probably means I'll need to look for some ski swaps down in Roanoke this fall. Still... don't the swaps come later in the season than the clearance sales at the stores? Am I running the risk of going into ski season with no good pairs of skis by waiting for the swaps?

Oh and thanks for pointing out that I'm fat.

One last point: I will be talking to some folks at the stores and actually looking at the pair of skis before I buy them. That guy on the web turned out to be way too pushy and I won't buy if it feels like someone is forcing the sale. What I'd like though is to have a good idea of what I'm looking for when I start hunting around Labor Day weekend, and this discussion is helping out a lot. Thanks again everyone! Continued suggestions or advice is welcome...
snowcone
June 21, 2005
Member since 09/27/2002
589 posts
IMHO ... go see the guys at Ski Center. They are knowledgeable and very helpful and will steer you in the right direction. I would also recommend visiting Ski Center early in the season. I talked to them today (reserving the women's 5 stars I mentioned and darn glad I did) and they recommended coming in around September when the new ski orders start arriving. Best time to visit is during the day ... forget about Saturday and Sundays and evenings ... the shop was controlled chaos last year and I imagine it's gonna be exponentially worse this year with Ski Chalet out of business.

In any case, you might be able to pick up a pair of used high end demos there to hold you over until you find what you are looking for.
JohnL
June 21, 2005
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Quote:

Oh and thanks for pointing out that I'm fat.




I was assuming you were big boned. Or maybe an ex-linebacker.

Used high-performance demos from a place like Ski Center is a good bet. But I'm guessing they probably sold them at the end of last season instead of storing them over the summer.

For bargain hunting, try older unused models (~2 years old) at possible firesale prices. Keep surfing the Net and hanging around ski stores.
johnfmh - DCSki Columnist
June 22, 2005
Member since 07/18/2001
1,914 posts
Another demo idea: take an early trip up to K-mart or Okemo and demo skis there. There will be more terrain variety and a wide range of demo centers from which to choose.

PS If you want a pair of Volkl G-31s (2000 Vintage with Marker bindings) in a 188 length, pm me, and I can probably give you a decent price. In fact, name a price on this forum and we'll see if people think its fair. The skis and bases are in good condition because I did not do much off trail skiing on them.
tromano
June 22, 2005
Member since 12/19/2002
998 posts
Didn't have a chance to reply yesterday, but JohnL is right on. Your tastes for stiffness will probably be different than most on this forum. You will definitely want a stiffer ski. Something like nice stiff racing inspired ski. There are many to choose form.

As far as length... IMO its all brand specific. There is no a priori length to recommend. Just keep in mind that certain skis have a sweet spot or whatever for length. And usually you want to at least demo that length. IMO shaped skis length is more about turning radius than about matching the ski length to the skier. It seems pretty common to go short especially if you are skiing something stiff. For something like the Atomic B5 I think the longest they made was 172CM.

Its a great idea to checkout epicski.com as they also have a ton of info on new skis.
lbotta - DCSki Supporter
June 22, 2005
Member since 10/18/1999
1,526 posts
I have to go on the 6-star recommendation. Over the last two years I had decided that my Solomon Pilots were passé. Tried seven of the Ski Mag top-rated all-terrain at either Snowshoe, Blue Knob, Stowe and Whistler. At the end, the Volkl 6-star was about the most incredible ski. Bought it in early Feb and skied with them the rest of the season. By the way, johnfm's excellent review of the ski in Austria was one of the things that got me to try the ski... John, I owe you a beer....

Pros:
* Awesome for Eastern skiing. They grab on sheer ice, crud, corn, you name it.
* The piston bindings rock. Great turning radius, incredible edging
* Versatility in ski technique. Sometimes I want to ski aggressively, sometimes I want to cruise the slopes on a mental reprieve. Whether relaxing or shedding adrenaline, they respond
* You can go Mach three and they still handle like a rocket. Totally stable.
They take a beating. The laminate-type surface takes all the abuse you can give.
* Reasonably priced for the quality you get.

Cons:
* Easy to overpower if you're used to sticks.
* If you're going to do other than Eastern skiing, get some fat ski rentals. At the Blackcomb Glacier, they handled like submarines...
* A bit too stiff on moguls
Roger Z
June 22, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Thanks Ibotta! I guess I should add that on a normal season, I do about 80% of my skiing out west. Eastern skiing has become more of training for western trips, so maybe I should rethink my preference for an ice ski.

Couple of general questions about the SkiCenter: first, where are they located? Second, do they lease skis for an entire season? I used to live in MD, and Owen's (we've been using the guys in Waldorf since we moved here from Upstate New York, when I was 8) does that. That might be a really good idea is to get a season lease and spend the winter playing around on a pair, and then purchase a pair next year. But only if they'll lease a high performance ski...

ps- Johnfmh thanks for the offer but ais that a shaped ski? If so, the 188 would be way too long for me.
snowcone
June 22, 2005
Member since 09/27/2002
589 posts
Yes Ski Center does lease skis for the season. I know they have high performance leases but don't know if the leases are limited to specific makers and models .. you have to talk to the guys there to find out. Web site is ... www.skicenter.com ... try this for a map ... http://maps.google.com/maps?q=4300+Fordham+Road+NW++washington+dc&spn=0.030172,0.069952&hl=en

... I just totally love Google! NOTE: Copy and paste the entire link into your browser to get =exactly= where you want to go ...
JohnL
June 22, 2005
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Roger Z.,

If you do 80 percent of your skiing out West, then consider a ski with an 85-105+ mm waist. They'll be skiable on all but the most heinous East Coast glare ice conditions. For those days, rent a pair of race skis.

Here's my basic quiver:
Me: 6'1", 190 lbs, advanced skier, technically competent.

West: Salomon Pocket Rockets, 175 cm (122-90-115) twin-tip. Slalom powder ski. I ski 80 percent ungroomed runs out West. At this length, a very quick turner in all snow conditions with the exception of glare ice. Quick in the bumps and trees. Excellent float. Very forgiving ski. Not the most fun on groomed runs or icier conditions (for the West), but still surprisingly good. On these skis, I was able to keep up with Crush on the groomed, and he does love his highspeed Super-G turns. If you ski the groomed with less athletic wives, GF's, friends or family, they are rated even higher. Plus groomed runs are only for getting you to the powder stashes. Or the crud stashes.

East: Atomic SX-9's, 170 cm (106-65-97). The Miata of skis. When I'm not lazy, I can turn so quickly on these babies that you need super slow-mo to see the edge changes. Not the best ski for stability and edge-hold at speed on ice, but they do rock in the bumps, trees and at slalom turns. Plenty of fun in the Timberline and Laurel Mtn. powder dumps we got last March. Though they do get a bit squirrely in chopped-up snow and I'm an experienced deep snow skier for a Right Coaster.

I currently prefer skis a level below what I can handle most of the time. This allows me the margin to really push my limits when I chose and still be able to recover. Go too high performance with skis and you have to be on the skis at all times. I used to ski slalom race skis (200+) in all conditions, so I'm probably coming from a similar background as you.

Welcome to the Dark Side!
JohnL
June 22, 2005
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Hey Greg B., where in Litchfield County do you live?

I grew up in Wolcott, and have family that still live in Wolcott, Watertown and Thomaston among other CT towns. I haven't skied Mohawk Mtn. in decades...
AlpineZone
June 23, 2005
Member since 06/16/2005
5 posts
Quote:

Hey Greg B., where in Litchfield County do you live?

I grew up in Wolcott, and have family that still live in Wolcott, Watertown and Thomaston among other CT towns. I haven't skied Mohawk Mtn. in decades...



Currently Oakville (Watertown), but moving to Thomaston next month. I'll be within 25 minutes of both Mohawk and Sundown, within an hour of Catamount and Butternut and 1:30 to Jiminy.
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tromano
June 23, 2005
Member since 12/19/2002
998 posts
80% out west? Nice. Keep in mind that your weight and float from the skis scale linearly acording to Tom/PMs chart. So for example at 230# a 95mm wasit would float as well as a 76mm Midfat for mr. Average joe who weights 185#.
johnfmh - DCSki Columnist
June 23, 2005
Member since 07/18/2001
1,914 posts
Quote:

ps- Johnfmh thanks for the offer but ais that a shaped ski? If so, the 188 would be way too long for me.




They are shaped skis and that's exactly why I ditched them--too f*cking long. They just wore me out, especially on bumped up, big vertical terrain. My advice is skip the G-31s and go for more modern, shorter shaped skis.

Lou, I'm glad you like the 6 Stars. I'm happy as a clam with mine.
Crush
June 23, 2005
Member since 03/21/2004
995 posts
Hi again .. after reading over this thread (wow what have you started? Everybody loves to jump in on a ski recommendation!) I have to say ....

LISTEN TO JOHN L ! Repeast Listen 2 John L!
If you really ski 80% out west forget the 6 stars .. just because I have them does not mean you should. I used them only for the "scratchy" days and always on groomed stuff .. they are great but they suck off-piste.

JohnL is a pretty tall guy and a very good skier .... his Pocket Rockets were the perfect ski for his visit here ... and most locals love it, the B2 the Dynastar 8800 etc.....

And the 6 stars have such an agressive sidecut (no skidding with them in bumps, steeps) that comming off straight skis you may find them insanely edgey.

Just my 8 cents!
comprex
June 23, 2005
Member since 04/11/2003
1,326 posts
Do any of you have an opinion on either the 03/04 9X Oversize or the 02/03 Rossi RPM 21 for someone of Roger's size and skill?
johnfmh - DCSki Columnist
June 24, 2005
Member since 07/18/2001
1,914 posts
Quote:

Hi again .. after reading over this thread (wow what have you started? Everybody loves to jump in on a ski recommendation!) I have to say ....

LISTEN TO JOHN L ! Repeast Listen 2 John L!
If you really ski 80% out west forget the 6 stars .. just because I have them does not mean you should. I used them only for the "scratchy" days and always on groomed stuff .. they are great but they suck off-piste.

JohnL is a pretty tall guy and a very good skier .... his Pocket Rockets were the perfect ski for his visit here ... and most locals love it, the B2 the Dynastar 8800 etc.....





I can second that thought. I've also skied with JohnL and he's a very strong skier with a lot of off-piste experience, including heli skiing trips. Another good person to listen to Tom aka Physics Man, but I haven't seen him on the forum for a while. However, he often posts on Epicski, so that's another good place to look. In fact, if you have not done some searches on Epic, you are missing out on some good information.

Regarding Ski and Skiing magazines, take those reviews with a big grain of salt. It's nearly impossible for those trade magazines to say something too critical of a big-name ski producer because of advertising revenue concerns. That's why most people get all their info from online forums, and just enjoy the magazines for their pretty pictures and fluffy prose.
tromano
June 24, 2005
Member since 12/19/2002
998 posts
Roger,

The one question you need to ask is... one pair or two? If you think you spend enough time here east to justify a pair for back east and out west... then JohnL's suggestion of a Shorty SL/skicross ski and fat powder ski make an unbeatable 2-ski quiver. If not go with a wide-midfat - light-fat ski and just make do on the ice arround here. The Legend 8000!!!

Quote:

And the 6 stars have such an agressive sidecut (no skidding with them in bumps, steeps) that comming off straight skis you may find them insanely edgey.




I don't really think my 2003 5*s are to radical. 111-68-101 its like a 15m turn radius at 168cm... However the trend is deffinately in the direction of skis with even more outrageous sidcut that are wide under foot and made to be skied really short e.g. last years Atomic B5.
TLaHaye
June 27, 2005
Member since 02/9/2005
136 posts
I demo'd the 9S Oversize and was very impressed. Conditions were heavy, new manmade snow on a warm day. I also demo'd a pair od Apache Crossfires and was amazed. They were extremely easy to ski, yet did everything asked of them as terrain and snow conditions changed (this was on a colder day with more typical eastern conditions).

I'm an advanced skier, and generally ski on Fischer Slaloms or Dynastar Course 66's, depending on my mood. Someone else posted to take the Ski Mag reviews with a grain of salt, and I agree, but know from personal experience that the comment made on the 66s last year that short turns are work was certainly true. Still, they're rock solid at speed. On the flip side, the Fischers ski like I suspect a Carrera drives. Wow! But ... best be on the edge; they get pretty squirrly when you just let them run.

The Crossfires struck me as a great compromise, with a lean towards shorter turns, bumps, and trees.
comprex
June 27, 2005
Member since 04/11/2003
1,326 posts
TLahaye, you would pick the Crossfires for hardpack/bumps for yourself?

I don't think they're appropriate for Roger's size, but everyone seems to forget about the 4-star as a perfectly capable tree&bump ski in icing conditions.
JohnL
June 27, 2005
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Quote:

Do any of you have an opinion on either the 03/04 9X Oversize or the 02/03 Rossi RPM 21 for someone of Roger's size and skill?




Peter K's site gives a good review for the Rossi 9X Oversize (sounds like a tennis racket), but mentions that the ski requires clean modern technique, i.e. they are very resistant to skidding. Probably not the best initial shaped ski for a long-time straight boarder.
JohnL
June 27, 2005
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Quote:

I don't really think my 2003 5*s are to radical. 111-68-101 its like a 15m turn radius at 168cm...




I'll agree with Crush in that the 6 Stars are a ski that don't like to be skidded (based on its reviews and by skiing comparable skis.) This is probably more due to the torsional stiffness of the ski rather than the sidecut. While the 6 Stars model doesn't have the most extreme sidecut out there, it has a lot of sidecut compared to a lot of West Coast/powder skis.

Quote:

However the trend is deffinately in the direction of skis with even more outrageous sidcut that are wide under foot and made to be skied really short e.g. last years Atomic B5.




Besides the Atomic B5, what other models are you refering to? In the past couple of years, skis are being skied much shorter and newer categories of wider skis have emerged, but are the sidecuts generally getting more radical?
jimmy
June 28, 2005
Member since 03/5/2004
2,650 posts
RogerZ, Lots of good advice here. Assuming that you want do this without spending big bucks, i think comprex/johnL are right on w/the internet bargain used ski suggestion. Spend a year or two on those and as gregB said, demo demo demo until u find the ski for you.

I'm more curious, what are you going to do w/the old ones? Seems like sticking them in the corner of the basemant is a most inglorious end.
TLaHaye
June 29, 2005
Member since 02/9/2005
136 posts
You know Comprex, the Crossfirees would certainly be on the short list. I was really impressed, but I'd demo them again and a few other skis before making the decision.

I can't speak to the size issue, but I go about 200 myself.
BushwackerinPA
June 29, 2005
Member since 12/9/2004
649 posts
I think the B5 is the only true one ski quiver out there right now(well maybe legend 8000s). My review is is this forum near the top. Trust me 162 is not to short dont look down at all and you will think you have much longer skis on.

These skis beat out my SL-9 on hardpack and ice, and will float powder,chowder and crud very well even is that short length.
comprex
June 29, 2005
Member since 04/11/2003
1,326 posts
Heh, heh. First we have to keep Roger Z away from this gem.
TLaHaye
June 30, 2005
Member since 02/9/2005
136 posts
Cool. He can even pick them up and avoid shipping.
tromano
June 30, 2005
Member since 12/19/2002
998 posts
Quote:

Besides the Atomic B5, what other models are you refering to? In the past couple of years, skis are being skied much shorter and newer categories of wider skis have emerged, but are the sidecuts generally getting more radical?




Sorry John, hadn't checked DCSKi in a lil while. My info was from memory... I remember the when I was looking at epic every day (back in february when I had jsut finished buying a new pair of skis) the inital info of all the new for 05-06 skis were being shown. Most lines included soemthing very similar in side cut to the B5. Ok I broke down form curiosity and did a search on epic..
Link to some 06 Skis

web page

Elan Magfire serries, Fischer AMC 76, K2 Appache Recon, Rossignol Zenith Z9... all are approximately 12X-7X-10X in dimensions.

--Tim
Roger Z
June 30, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Too long for me. Have at it!

Thanks for all the new postings and sorry I haven't been here in a while- back in Blacksburg last weekend having a blast and then, well, been busy at work and home since. Need to pay a little bit closer attention to what's been said over the last several days, but it sounds like there's some general agreement that there are a series of skis with which I can't go wrong.

Come to think of it, I'm sure that any ski I buy is going to be a significant upgrade from my last pair, so I shouldn't be too worried about finding *the* perfect ski. Most likely if I get an all-mountain expert ski I'm liable to be highly satisfied.

Someone asked about my "quiver." Maybe, just MAYBE, I have to switch over to shaped skis because they don't make straight edge anymore, but I'm not ready yet- and I'm too poor- to start buying multiple sets of skis depending on conditions. That's going a little far for me still. Unless, of course, you're talking about a set of downhill skis, a set of telemark skis, a set of snowshoes...
tromano
June 30, 2005
Member since 12/19/2002
998 posts
Roger, Great philosophy... as I have read not realyl enough times, there are not any really bad pairs of skis out there. We are talkign abotu jsut a few percent in terms of performance and capabiltise. Good luck!
comprex
July 8, 2005
Member since 04/11/2003
1,326 posts
Hmm. Ski gear poorth, I hear ya.

So I thought I pass on the URL for $80 'new'=unused Rebel XXs, in 191cm:
http://www.potterbrothers.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/58_83
Roger Z
August 16, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Couple of things...

First, thanks for all the help. The feedback was excellent and it was a good conversation, I really enjoyed it!

Second, it looks like I've settled on a ski. Tomorrow I should be heading to a local ski shop to purchase their last set of Volkl 5 Stars- 168 cm length. I fully expect to be going psycho in the mogul fields by the end of the season. They're short, but I like the slaloming and if I move west next year, I'll be sure to add a longer floater and have, for the first time since I was 21, a "quiver" once again. Though last time the "quiver" consisted of a pair of skis I loved and a pair of skis I hated, so it wasn't much of an arsenal.

Maybe I'll get a third pair of skis- an old pair of straight edge 207s or 209s for when I feel like ripping around on groomers all afternoon or something. That would be sweet- you have to admit, whatever shaped skis have, you just can't get the same straight bombadier sensation out of 'em. Good ol' pair of K2s or something to go howling around on the hill once in a while could be quite fun.

Can't wait to see how these Volkl's handle. Should be a fun season!
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
August 16, 2005
Member since 03/15/2004
1,287 posts
Maybe you ought to go back to leather lace up boots and wooden ski's. I can tell you're one of those guys who is set in his ways. I kept my old K2 5500 CS's for as long as I could. Why I do not know. Beyond the shape, the technology of the new skis far exceeds those old straight skis. I am not sure what kind of sensation you get out of those old boards. Perhaps it's like leaving the Lexus parked and taking a ride with a horse and buggy. Your like one of the guys in my ski club...he still uses his old Scott boots because he says there's nothing better. However, the real reason he won't get new boots is because he's too goddam cheap. Hey Roger...this ain't no rehearsal baby.You like to ski, treat your self to the best. Over the 10+/- year life of those skis, a few dollars won't really mean anything if you put a smile on your face a few times.
Roger Z
August 17, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Well, I guess I enjoyed talking to everyone but you. Thanks for the insults- try sobering up before writing something next time.
snowsmith - DCSki Supporter
August 17, 2005
Member since 03/15/2004
1,287 posts
My apologoes Roger. No insults intended.Sometimes my humor is kind of dry and not everyone thinks it's humorous.
therusty
August 17, 2005
Member since 01/17/2005
422 posts
Roger,

You'll be very happy with the 5 stars. So happy you won't need the straight skis for ripping groomers.

When I first skied the 5 stars I was blown away. It was far and away the best ski I'd ever been on, but at 5' 11", 210 the 175 was too long. I had bought the skis without demoing them. I loved them but sold them because I had subsequently demoed the 168s and knew those were the right length for me. Then I tried the old 6 star at 168. I could not believe it was even better. Yet when I demoed the ski a second time, they REALLY sucked. Actually, it was my technique. I was just a little bit off the sweet spot and the ski had no forgiveness. When I heard the 2005 model only had one layer of metal instead of two, I got the 6 stars last year. It still has a relatively tight (but not nearly as small) sweet spot, but when you are on it, the ski simply has more horsepower than the 5 stars.

I've demoed the 5 stars in 168 and 175 lengths at Killington and Snowbird. Although the 5 stars are sold for out West soft snow and the 6 stars for Eastern hard pack, I've found that each ski can handle either condition quite admirably. The 5 stars are like a comfortably sporty car that can still feel good when going fast. The 6 stars are like a real sports car that excels at high performance levels but feels a little stiff when you're just cruising. Unless you are competing or enjoy running full throttle all day, the 5 stars are a better choice.

As a heavier guy, I never would have believed that a 168 can perform in deeper snow. At some point when the snow is deep and heavy enough, mid fats and fatties simply rule. But the reality for most of us is that those days are few and far between enough that the 5 star and 6 star kind of ski is the right choice. I've found that the 168cm 5 stars can handle 8 inches of heavy crud well enough for me that I felt no need to change out.

Enjoy!
Roger Z
August 17, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Sorry then Snowsmith- think we all have that problem with e-mail and messages. Use more and and and it'll be easier to see that you're joking around!

Rusty- a lot of what I heard about the 6 start parallels your experience. An awesome ski, but you've got to be on the top of your game all the time to enjoy them. I'm just not there, if I ever start skiing 30-40 times a year maybe I would be but then I'd transition over to the TRUE dark side- telemarking. So the next step down- near-top level performance with some forgiveness in the sweet spot- is kind of my ski de choice.

Off to go buy the new baby skis. Later!
ScotS244
August 17, 2005
Member since 01/29/2004
122 posts
Damn, how did I miss this post? RogerZ - if you indeed ended up with the 5 stars, you are going to love them. I'm 6'3" / 215+ and ski on the 175 5 stars. I took them EVERYWHERE last year and they handled it all except pow. At the length you got them, you'll definitely be able to attack moguls and tight spaces. Not sure how well they'll rip if you want to do it but you should be fine. Good luck with these!
JohnL
August 17, 2005
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Roger Z.,

Congrats on the new boards.

Quote:

Maybe I'll get a third pair of skis- an old pair of straight edge 207s or 209s for when I feel like ripping around on groomers all afternoon or something. That would be sweet- you have to admit, whatever shaped skis have, you just can't get the same straight bombadier sensation out of 'em.




Short of a pure straightline or skiing a downhill, you'll never want to get on the old straight boards again. (Unless you want to do a retro day and dig out the ole neon gear and skin-tight ski pants. Just don't have any pictures taken of you. ) You'll be amazed at how stable high-performance shaped skis are when they are on edge. Your speed limit may even increase. Most shaped skis can get squirrely when you have their bases flat to the snow, just arc Super-G turns and you'll be loving life.
Murphy
August 17, 2005
Member since 09/13/2004
618 posts
Quote:

Unless you want to do a retro day and dig out the ole neon gear and skin-tight ski pants. Just don't have any pictures taken of you.




What do you mean dig them out? Roger never put them up
Crush
August 17, 2005
Member since 03/21/2004
995 posts
JohnL - heh heh heh .. couldn't have said it better myself ... but it does take me "back in the day" .... I use to ski bumps with 207's har har back then the kidz at Ski Liberty use to call me "Kamakazi" ... the only way to fly!
Roger Z
August 17, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
It is with great dismay that it appears that I have washed my lucky red pom-pom hat one size too small for my head. Used to be a guaranteed "spot-me" on the hill. Maybe I'll try to stretch it out and fit it on again.

Murph is just jealous. Think he was snowboarding in camos the last time we went out, the ones with the orange nylon "don't shoot me" vest on top.

Scott glad to see you caught the board- someone was looking for you earlier this summer. How did you miss it??? Now if only that lady who sold me the skis would go out to dinner with me, it'd be a great start to the ski season... maybe if I pick the skis up in my pom-pom hat...
Murphy
August 17, 2005
Member since 09/13/2004
618 posts
Quote:

Murph is just jealous. Think he was snowboarding in camos the last time we went out, the ones with the orange nylon "don't shoot me" vest on top.




Very funny. But you did give me an idea. When we open up Moonshine Mtn. we're gonna have to sell a whole line of camo ski apparel with the "Ski Moonshine" logo on it.


ps. How much time have you spent in your ski boot and new skis this afternoon?
Roger Z
August 17, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
That's a brilliant idea! We'll have to get Jimmy to get that apparel made.

My skis and ski boots are both in the hospital right now- being mounted and fitted. Will be a couple weeks before the newborn gets to come home.
tromano
August 23, 2005
Member since 12/19/2002
998 posts
I love my 168cm 5* (me 5'10" ~195Lb. I have used mine all last season after buying a gently used 2002-03 model of the ski from beay. This is the model before the 6* were available. The ski is made for the goomers and hard pack. This is where it is at its best. I havent skied anything better on ice either. Some people mentioned a speed limit. I didn't notice one. I am not sure how fast a person would want to ski given the throngs that clog many groomers arround here.



I was pleasantly surprised by its handeling in powder. I had a chance to ski in up to knee deep last year in W. NY and WV in march and the 5* were awesome. Deffiantley the funnest ski that I own and still the funnest ski I have in pow pow. Not a ton of float but they seem to be more controlled and easy to ski than my wider boards in deeper snow. I am not the best pow skier mind you but I am learning.

The one place where it doesnt do quite so well as the midfat is heavy, thick crud. The 5* does tend to get hung up a bit in those conditions.
Roger Z
August 24, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
Don't worry Tromano- I'll just use my big-boned body to muscle through the crud, screaming like Conan the Barbarian the whole way- "To crush the crud, and see it driven before you!"
comprex
August 24, 2005
Member since 04/11/2003
1,326 posts
And to hear the lamentation of the lift chairs
JohnL
August 25, 2005
Member since 01/6/2000
3,509 posts
Quote:

And to hear the lamentation of the lift chairs





Murphy
August 25, 2005
Member since 09/13/2004
618 posts
Quote:

And to hear the lamentation of the lift chairs




That's the funniest thing I've read in a while
Roger Z
September 11, 2005
Member since 01/16/2004
2,181 posts
The Volkl Five Stars have arrived. Murphy has seen them, and his ten month old daughter apparently digs the binding mounts. I'm still skeptical that anything good can come from such a short thing though... I mean the ski, not his daughter. We'll see!
racer25
November 8, 2005
Member since 11/8/2005
1 posts
I bought Volkl 6* 175cm last year and love them. I am 25 y/o, 5'8", 150. I have been skiing for 23 years and raced for 10. I spend about 70% of my time ripping groomers and the rest off piste. Comments above are right about staying on top of these skis. They are incredible if you are an aggressive skier. I have skied them in all conditions at many european resorts had way more fun than my old race stock skis. If you have good technique and are moderately in shape they will not burn your legs much. I will warn any newbies/intermediates that think they have to have the absolute best equipment that these are not skis to learn on. Check your ego at the door and get something that is within your skill level for the best progress.
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