I'm between DC and Balt and Im thinking of switching from Epic to Icon. Feels like Liberty Whitetail and Round can't be counted on to make snow and spin the lifts. Used to do lots of half day trips to those spots but not this year. Think I'd rather have Ikon and have Snowshoe and Killington (among others) and just give up the idea of half day skiing near home. 

What's your plan?

i’ll probably stick with epic day passes.  i’m in northern va, about 90 minutes from whitetail and liberty.  and when i go, i take a full day (usually during the week to avoid crowds).

snowshoe or killington is a lot of travel.  the simple reality is that “daytrips from DC area” really means epic.  i wish liberty and whitetail were split between epic and icon so each would have to compete.

to be fair:  vail tried.  they blew snow when they could.  the weather simply didn’t cooperate.

my mistake this year was “waiting for things to get better”.   had a five day pass and didn’t start using it until late.  

If you live in western FFX or Loudon counties, day trip can include TM.

But Saturdays there have gotten crowded.

Snowshoe is very easy - at least from northern Virginia. Four hours each way, go up Friday come back Sunday evening no problem. Killington is less do-able as a weekend trip from northern Virginia (8 hours). 

The problem with Snowshoe is not the travel but the crowds, which are just incredibly awful. It is worth the extra travel to VT to escape that. Maybe going to Killington spoiled me for Snowshoe, but it's increasingly hard to tolerate Snowshoe lift lines.

Really can't see getting Epic for some relatively weak PA hills.

Frankly I am not sure my Ikon pass really paid for itself this season and I'm a tad bitter about it.

MarkRebuck wrote:

snowshoe or killington is a lot of travel.  the simple reality is that “daytrips from DC area” really means epic.  i wish liberty and whitetail were split between epic and icon so each would have to compete.

I think we'll be biting the bullet and upgrading from Indy pass to Epic (potentially just the local northeast one). Indy pass was great for us this year with enough easy day and weekend trips from DC to more than break even on the value. My partner and I tried really hard to convince some non-passholding friends in DC to try out something new like Massanutten this year, but everyone still just wants to go to Whitetail.

The appeal of unlimited days and easy day/half-day trips from DC to WT/RT/Liberty is too big to overcome when more than anything we need hours on the snow to improve and progress as skiers. We'll get in either a trip up north or out west to extract big value from the passes and whenever we decide we want some lessons probably go back to someplace like Bryce or Wisp where we've had outstanding personalized lessons vs some less impressive lessons at Whitetail.

All that said, I'll be really sad to leave behind the indy pass. We've loved the character and variation in the places we've been on it and I'm sad we'll be trading away character in exchange for extra volume of sameness when skiing locally, but trying to juggle limited days at the local-ish mountains and have it align with work obligations, non-holidays weekends (our own restriction, not indy pass), and good conditions was its own burden this year.

As someone that lives near 7S I can say that they tried with minimal efforts. 

There were many opportunities they had to blow snow and they just didnt, with absolutely minimal base.  They banked on natural snowfall and did not bank on warmer temps/rain...which has been the growing trend.   I realize they had to stay profitable, and have no idea how much they spend on snowmaking, but snowmaking was not as wide spread as it has been in previous years.  

And now they are screwed.

Lost boy has no snow on it.  The one park they have open, has no snow within 15' of the tow rope.

North face lodge, has no snow running up to it, and north face lift is about to give up the amount of snow needed to keep that runout open.   I expect north face area to shut down entirely soon. 

They may be able to hold out wagner and the trails around for another week, and maybe avalanche area (not the trail though).  Back to November 25th skiing next week and potentially closed for good the week after.  They are already talking about just trying to make it to the middle of March and shutting it down for the season. 

As someone who rode maybe 8 days at 7Sprangs this year (a single season record for me) I felt the difference in crowd flow there due to Vail acquisition.

Grumpy dad wrote:

As someone that lives near 7S I can say that they tried with minimal efforts. 

There were many opportunities they had to blow snow and they just didnt, with absolutely minimal base.  They banked on natural snowfall and did not bank on warmer temps/rain...which has been the growing trend.   I realize they had to stay profitable, and have no idea how much they spend on snowmaking, but snowmaking was not as wide spread as it has been in previous years.  

And now they are screwed.

Lost boy has no snow on it.  The one park they have open, has no snow within 15' of the tow rope.

North face lodge, has no snow running up to it, and north face lift is about to give up the amount of snow needed to keep that runout open.   I expect north face area to shut down entirely soon. 

They may be able to hold out wagner and the trails around for another week, and maybe avalanche area (not the trail though).  Back to November 25th skiing next week and potentially closed for good the week after.  They are already talking about just trying to make it to the middle of March and shutting it down for the season. 

 Better? Worse?

I'm up there a similar amount, but arranging days to avoid crowds is second nature.  We'll go week nights after school, Sunday afternoons and mix in a good dose of Laurel Mountain around the busy times.

I think Vail shot themselves in the foot this year.  Instead of coming out with a bang is was more of a "see we are exactly as you expected us to be.."

chuck_wow wrote:

As someone who rode maybe 8 days at 7Sprangs this year (a single season record for me) I felt the difference in crowd flow there due to Vail acquisition.

 

Grumpy dad wrote:

As someone that lives near 7S I can say that they tried with minimal efforts. 

There were many opportunities they had to blow snow and they just didnt, with absolutely minimal base.  They banked on natural snowfall and did not bank on warmer temps/rain...which has been the growing trend.   I realize they had to stay profitable, and have no idea how much they spend on snowmaking, but snowmaking was not as wide spread as it has been in previous years.  

And now they are screwed.

Lost boy has no snow on it.  The one park they have open, has no snow within 15' of the tow rope.

North face lodge, has no snow running up to it, and north face lift is about to give up the amount of snow needed to keep that runout open.   I expect north face area to shut down entirely soon. 

They may be able to hold out wagner and the trails around for another week, and maybe avalanche area (not the trail though).  Back to November 25th skiing next week and potentially closed for good the week after.  They are already talking about just trying to make it to the middle of March and shutting it down for the season. 

This is the exact situation we were in this year and I loved having the indy pass! Trying out different terrain at different places so you're not constantly lapping the hardest beginner trail at the same place but too intimidated to make the jump up to blues kept the season fresh and exciting for us.

KTMan wrote:

I'm a noob here, so grain of salt and all that, but I am strongly considering the indy pass for next season.  I'm a newcomer to the DC Skiing and have been trying to go mostly Solo because I don't want to drag my friends day down sticking to the bunny hell and waiting for me to pick myself up.  The indy pass giving me 2 days at a variety of resorts will encourage me to get out and explore the area a bit, I hope. 

I'll go Ikon base pass for Snowshoe and one trip out west. If the price is cheap I'll grab an Epic Local 4 day mid week for 7S, HV and LM.

I got skunked on both this year. I only have 6 days on my Ikon and I'm hoping for one more Snowshoe trip. I have a 7 day Epic local and have only used 2 days at 7S.  

Indy.  We will take the Christmas trip up to Ontario this coming December which will allow us to hit a resort newly on the Indy called Calabogie Peaks, and also maybe Greek Peak on the way back.  Too bad Montage never has snow that early.

Then back down here we can use it at Mnut, Winterplace and maybe one two other semi-local hills, like maybe Cataloochee, Bryce or Canaan.

It seemed more crowded than normal to me. I think that because 7S is part of Vail now a lot of folks like me made the choice to drive past Whitetail for better conditions at 7S. I can say this: were it not for the fact my Epic Pass worked at 7S there's no way I woulda been there MLK weekend. At that time Liberty Whitetop was like 1/3 open and gross looking. 7S at least looked inviting....

oddballstocks wrote:

 Better? Worse?

I'm up there a similar amount, but arranging days to avoid crowds is second nature.  We'll go week nights after school, Sunday afternoons and mix in a good dose of Laurel Mountain around the busy times.

I think Vail shot themselves in the foot this year.  Instead of coming out with a bang is was more of a "see we are exactly as you expected us to be.."

chuck_wow wrote:

As someone who rode maybe 8 days at 7Sprangs this year (a single season record for me) I felt the difference in crowd flow there due to Vail acquisition.

 

Grumpy dad wrote:

As someone that lives near 7S I can say that they tried with minimal efforts. 

There were many opportunities they had to blow snow and they just didnt, with absolutely minimal base.  They banked on natural snowfall and did not bank on warmer temps/rain...which has been the growing trend.   I realize they had to stay profitable, and have no idea how much they spend on snowmaking, but snowmaking was not as wide spread as it has been in previous years.  

And now they are screwed.

Lost boy has no snow on it.  The one park they have open, has no snow within 15' of the tow rope.

North face lodge, has no snow running up to it, and north face lift is about to give up the amount of snow needed to keep that runout open.   I expect north face area to shut down entirely soon. 

They may be able to hold out wagner and the trails around for another week, and maybe avalanche area (not the trail though).  Back to November 25th skiing next week and potentially closed for good the week after.  They are already talking about just trying to make it to the middle of March and shutting it down for the season. 

It depends on your pass. Indy pass is 2 days lift tickets at each member resort + 3rd day discounted (this year, tbd for next). Ikon and epic are unlimited at any resort (subject to blackout or weekday restrictions well laid out when you pick the pass). 

SeniorSki wrote:

Question, pass holders, is it unlimited skiing days at specific resort or is it X amount of skiing days at the resort during the season. Probably need to research them on line. 

I keep a journal every year of my ski days and after buying the Epic pass and Timberline Mountain pass for a few seasons, I decided this season to skip Epic and just purchase Timberline Mountain pass. So far, the choice has worked out ok. I made a trip to Waterville Valley and skied two days midweek for $132 (2 week advanced web purchase). An Indy Pass would have worked at Waterville but would have cost $270. I am now finishing up a 5 day midweek trip to Snowbasin and paid $580 for the tickets, which I purchased online 2 weeks before the trip. That’s far below what I would have paid for an Icon Pass ($1229) and the base + pass ($1,069). Note the Base + would have only given me 4 days so I would have had to purchase an additional day ticket with this pass.  That extra day would have made the cost of the Base + about the same as a full pass.

Bottom line: if you only make a few trips a year outside the region and plan to ski off-peak days, the big passes probably don’t make sense. Also, I think the sweet spot for skiing these days are independent resorts—those not on a major pass or ones that greatly limit days for major pass holders (Snowbasin for instance). My days of skiing weekends at destination resorts with a few exception are over.  

Seems complicated, use to be half day 9 to 1 for 10 bucks yeah I know those days are over, just like my straight skis. Was looking to get out this year but the local scene was terrible. I could have made timberline just never pulled the trigger. Kept waiting for that big snow week that never happened. Let’s just chalk this up to a bad year, like 72/73. I don’t think I want to chance a pass for next year locally. Will opt for an on line daily pass weeks in advance. Here’s to a better snow season 2023/24. 

 I have had the Ikon pass for Snowshoe and to cover the "big" out west resorts for years.  It has always paid off in the past but not this year.  Only used it 3 days (Schweitzer) out of 14 days out west riding.  I went to smaller resorts with cheap tickets and no crowds ($48-113).  I'm still debating but may just buy the Snowshoe pass next season. 

johnfmh wrote:

I keep a journal every year of my ski days and after buying the Epic pass and Timberline Mountain pass for a few seasons, I decided this season to skip Epic and just purchase Timberline Mountain pass. So far, the choice has worked out ok. I made a trip to Waterville Valley and skied two days midweek for $132 (2 week advanced web purchase). An Indy Pass would have worked at Waterville but would have cost $270. I am now finishing up a 5 day midweek trip to Snowbasin and paid $580 for the tickets, which I purchased online 2 weeks before the trip. That’s far below what I would have paid for an Icon Pass ($1229) and the base + pass ($1,069). Note the Base + would have only given me 4 days so I would have had to purchase an additional day ticket with this pass.  That extra day would have made the cost of the Base + about the same as a full pass.

Bottom line: if you only make a few trips a year outside the region and plan to ski off-peak days, the big passes probably don’t make sense. Also, I think the sweet spot for skiing these days are independent resorts—those not on a major pass or ones that greatly limit days for major pass holders (Snowbasin for instance). My days of skiing weekends at destination resorts with a few exception are over.  

IKON Pass gives me what I want:  Snowshoe, and plenty

of flexibility to go to VT or CO to follow the snow!  Also,

take a look at the Gems Pass for 2 for 1 lift tickets in CO.

Only $45 for the pass, and deals at ~ 10 resorts.

We've had Indy+ from Season 1.  It's not worth it for local skiing.  Even in a half decent winter Blue Knob and CVR struggle to get their blue and black terrain open.  Massanutten can be a fun mountain with good cover but really really weather dependent.  Went to Bryce once, was amusing.  Montage is a fun trip but once you check it off the "been- there" list you won't be motivated to go back (think of Liberty with the front side stacked on top of the back side).

Indy+ is rewarding if you hit the road to New England, especially for holiday periods.  We've had some great days at Jay, Bolton, Magic, Cannon, Waterville and Berkshire East.  Was hoping to make it to Greek Peak with fresh snow but timing never worked out.

Now that my kids can keep up with me we are likely going to try some combo of Epic and/or Ikon for the CO and UT resorts.  I'm not a fan of Vail but we need the local PA options.  Maybe combo of Ikon and Epic and see how it shakes out with the friend/buddy/day tickets.

 I just picked up the 4 day Epic pass to use in the Laurel Highlands next season. Hopefully, we'll have a real winter next season.

Someone posted on Facebook that they believe the Ikon passes are going on sale 3/15 or 16. I'll renew my Ikon base for Snowshoe and what I think will be a trip to Big Sky in 2024.

I'm going to put a few more days on Ikon this year. I'm leaving for Killington in an hour. 

 BTW the NE pass doesnt have blackout dates for the local laurel highlands resorts.  Not sure where they got that.  

oddballstocks wrote:

I'm in W PA and ski the local Laurel Highlands stuff.  Had the EPIC Northeast pass this year, I'll probably do the same next year.

I have some friends who went for the full Epic to avoid the blackout dates, it wasn't worth it for them.  Blackouts aren't an issue especially considering the lack of terrain this year.  For me a blackout day means "avoid because it'll be crowded."

We purchased passes for the entire family, but next year I'll only purchase them for half and use buddy passes for the rest.  This seems to be a common sentiment.

I have a feeling pass purchases in the MidA are going to be far below normal this spring.

 What???  If that's true then I was mislead... I contacted Epic earlier this year and they told me that all of their passes except for the full Epic had blackout dates at all resorts including the PA ones.

I guess I should have called Seven Springs or HV.

Grumpy dad wrote:

 BTW the NE pass doesnt have blackout dates for the local laurel highlands resorts.  Not sure where they got that.  

oddballstocks wrote:

I'm in W PA and ski the local Laurel Highlands stuff.  Had the EPIC Northeast pass this year, I'll probably do the same next year.

I have some friends who went for the full Epic to avoid the blackout dates, it wasn't worth it for them.  Blackouts aren't an issue especially considering the lack of terrain this year.  For me a blackout day means "avoid because it'll be crowded."

We purchased passes for the entire family, but next year I'll only purchase them for half and use buddy passes for the rest.  This seems to be a common sentiment.

I have a feeling pass purchases in the MidA are going to be far below normal this spring.

Looks like it's gonna be Timberline and Ikon passes again next year.

oddballstocks wrote:

 What???  If that's true then I was mislead... I contacted Epic earlier this year and they told me that all of their passes except for the full Epic had blackout dates at all resorts including the PA ones.

Definitely not.  In fact that is why I bought the Epic Local pass last year, just in case it worked out that way.  Thank goodness not, but I might make that bet again.   

Grumpy dad wrote:

only purchase them for half and use buddy passes for the rest.  This seems to be a common sentiment.

I have a feeling pass purchases in the MidA are going to be far below normal this spring.

Ditto !

Epic almost had too many pass options this year that caused some confusion. All of the actual epic passes that were not listed as midweek had no blackout dates in this area. (NE value pass only has restrictions at Stowe, Okemo, Hunter, and Mt Snow both this season and next)

However, where things got interesting was for people that got the Epic Day pass (22 resorts) with no holiday access. While this pass is the ticket to resort access at ~$40 a day, it does have blackout dates at all resorts. I believe many of the people in this area that had no interest in traveling got that epic day pass. To make matters worse there was also some conflicting information on their website as what days were blacked out. (I think some place had only the Saturday of MLK weekend blocked, even though it should've been the whole weekend) 

Hope this helps some as people are making choices.

pagamony wrote:

 

oddballstocks wrote:

 What???  If that's true then I was mislead... I contacted Epic earlier this year and they told me that all of their passes except for the full Epic had blackout dates at all resorts including the PA ones.

Definitely not.  In fact that is why I bought the Epic Local pass last year, just in case it worked out that way.  Thank goodness not, but I might make that bet again.   

Grumpy dad wrote:

only purchase them for half and use buddy passes for the rest.  This seems to be a common sentiment.

I have a feeling pass purchases in the MidA are going to be far below normal this spring.

Ditto !

rbrtlav wrote:

...
However, where things got interesting was for people that got the Epic Day pass (22 resorts) with no holiday access. While this pass is the ticket to resort access at ~$40 a day, it does have blackout dates at all resorts. I believe many of the people in this area that had no interest in traveling got that epic day pass.
... 

That's what I did.  My plan was to ski five days at Whitetail/Liberty.  I didn't care about blackout days because "blackout days" = "crowds", and I don't do crowds.  I go midweek and not on holidays.  So the Epic Day pass worked.

...mostly :-).  I only got in two days at Whitetail and one at Liberty.  Brutal weather this year!  I'm finishing my last two days at Jack Frost next Thursday/Friday (will be my first time there).

Ikon Passes are on sale today. I'll grab the Ikon Base. It's 769 with the 50 renewal discount and 10 credit for the covid lawsuit.

If you frequent Snowshoe and want the Primo upgrade, tack on another 999. Yes, you read that correctly, add 999 NOT 999 total for both - that is just insane IMO.

 I was at Laurel Hill this weekend shooting the breeze with some employees and got clarification on this.

Everyone on here is correct that everything except the day passes have NO blackout dates in the Laurels.  This will be true next year as well.

rbrtlav wrote:

Epic almost had too many pass options this year that caused some confusion. All of the actual epic passes that were not listed as midweek had no blackout dates in this area. (NE value pass only has restrictions at Stowe, Okemo, Hunter, and Mt Snow both this season and next)

However, where things got interesting was for people that got the Epic Day pass (22 resorts) with no holiday access. While this pass is the ticket to resort access at ~$40 a day, it does have blackout dates at all resorts. I believe many of the people in this area that had no interest in traveling got that epic day pass. To make matters worse there was also some conflicting information on their website as what days were blacked out. (I think some place had only the Saturday of MLK weekend blocked, even though it should've been the whole weekend) 

Hope this helps some as people are making choices.

pagamony wrote:

 

oddballstocks wrote:

 What???  If that's true then I was mislead... I contacted Epic earlier this year and they told me that all of their passes except for the full Epic had blackout dates at all resorts including the PA ones.

Definitely not.  In fact that is why I bought the Epic Local pass last year, just in case it worked out that way.  Thank goodness not, but I might make that bet again.   

Grumpy dad wrote:

only purchase them for half and use buddy passes for the rest.  This seems to be a common sentiment.

I have a feeling pass purchases in the MidA are going to be far below normal this spring.

Ditto !

 

Since I own real estate at an Epic Pass resort, there's not much decision making for me. So I again plan to get the Epic Local Pass which allows access to most all US Epic resorts with some restrictions at Vail, Beaver Creek and Whistler and a few others. It also provides access to 8 Pennsylvania resorts, 3 resorts in Vermont and 4 in NH. Plus the resorts they own in California, Colorado and Utah and Canada with some Holiday restrictions. I even get 5 days at Swiss resort Andermatt-Sedrum.  All this for $676. Alot cheaper than Ikon. That said, if I did not own real estate at a Epic Pass resort, I might consider switching passes from year to year. I did have the Indy pass last year before 7S/LM/HV became Epic resorts. And I did ski at 6 Indy resorts. 

It's hard to beat the Epic Pass. And I think they did a decent job of operating 7S/HV/LM this year despite the weather challenges. Anyone who says the held back on snow making does not know what they are talking about. That is not to say there could be some improvement in the overall operations.

I'm likely to stick with the combination of Full Ikon with the MCP for trips out west.  Probably going to get Indy again, mostly with an idea of checking out a few midwest ski areas while visiting relatives next winter.

I'm skiing less at Massanutten now that I do 3-4 trips out west so don't really need a season pass, especially now that I qualify for senior rates.  Plus if I get Indy then that would cover two days.

My ski buddies are interested in a few days at Crested Butte, probably after another trip to Taos.  I could cover CB with an Epic Day Pass for a few days.  Comes out $70-75 per day depending on how many days.  There are three tiers for the Epic Day Pass: all VR resorts, 32 VR resorts including Keystone and Crested Butte in Colorado plus Tahoe, 22 VR resorts in the midwest or mid-Atlantic plus NH Epic locations.  If I went with 4 days and 32 VR resorts, cost would be $288, compared to $676 for Epic Local.