It's become clear that Alterra resorts and Ikon partners are taking different approaches about how to limit access to lifts.  Alterra thinks reservations won't be necessary.  The Partners are putting in place reservations of some sort, either for lift access or parking.

https://www.ikonpass.com/en/reservations

Below is the Ikon list for the U.S. sorted geographically with Alterra resorts in bold. The locations that don't plan to require reservations of any kind are in italics. Boyne Resorts won't use reservations at Sunday River, Sugarloaf, Boyne Mountain, Boyne Highlands. Mt. Bachelor is owned by Powdr, as is Copper and Killington/Pico. Killington/Pico, Copper and Eldora in CO will require parking reservations.

Yeah, it's more complicated than usual. But the skiing for those who figure it out could be quite good even on weekends because there will be fewer people on the slopes and in lift lines. I know my friends who have the local season pass for Tremblant are looking forward to the season. Presumably most Ikon users last season were from the U.S. and that's not happening this winter.

Washington: Crystal Mountain, The Summit at Snoqualmie
Oregon: Mt. Bachelor
California: Squaw/Alpine, Mammoth, June, Big Bear

Montana: Big Sky
Wyoming: Jackson Hole
Utah: Deer Valley, Solitude, Brighton, Alta*, Snowbird
Colorado: Aspen/Snowmass*,  Steamboat, Winter Park, Copper, Eldora, Arapahoe Basin
New Mexico: Taos Ski Valley

Michigan: Boyne Highlands, Boyne Mountain

Maine: Sugarloaf, Sunday River
New Hampshire: Loon Mountain
Vermont: Stratton, Killington/Pico, Sugarbush
New York: Windham
West Virginia: Snowshoe

* no announcement about reservations as of 9/15

I'm confused.  I thought that Ikon was the pass for Alterra resorts.  You needed the full pass to access all of them of course.  I'm getting the impression here that there is not a 100% overlap between alterra resorts and ikon pass resorts.

Denis wrote:

I'm confused.  I thought that Ikon was the pass for Alterra resorts.  You needed the full pass to access all of them of course.  I'm getting the impression here that there is not a 100% overlap between alterra resorts and ikon pass resorts.

The Ikon pass was made up of several different groups from the start.  The core are the resorts that were bought by Alterra, which included all of the former Intrawest resorts such as Steamboat and Snowshoe.  Add Mammoth and Squaw/Alpine in the west . . . and Alterra was a powerhouse.  But Epic still covered a lot more locations.  Alterra was a cooperative effort between KSL, owner of Squaw/Alpine, and the family that owns Aspen/Snowmass.  It was someone at Aspen who initiated the MCP.  So the first Ikon Partners were the independent resorts on the MPC.  For example, Alta/Snowbird and JH.  The other two multi-resort owners, Powdr and Boyne, were part of the MAX Pass with Intrawest.  It's taken a while, but I think all of their resorts are now on Ikon for 2020-21.

For some Alterra resorts, Ikon is the only choice as the "season pass" with the bonus of access to other Ikon resorts.  Sugarbush is an example. A few Alterra resorts also offer a 1-location season pass.  Most obvious example is Deer Valley, which is limited access even for Full Ikon.

The Ikon Partners are mostly also on the MCP.  A few, like Mt. Bachelor (Powdr) are only on Ikon.

Clear as mud?  It look several months of reading and typing out lists before Alterra and Ikon made sense to me during the summer and fall that Alterra aquisitions and additions to Ikon seemed to be happening every week.  The key for understanding the Ikon Partner list was looking at the history of the MAX Pass.  Twelve of the Ikon Partners are connected to either Boyne Resorts or Powdr.  The best known independents on Ikon were two that joined Aspen and Squaw/Alpine to create the MCP: Alta, JH.

ABasin has a unique history because it was a carryover as a location on Epic for years.  Then ABasin switched to Ikon, perhaps because Ikon only provided limited access.

Note that it costs an extra $150 for someone with Ikon Base to access JH and Aspen this season.

Thanks for the details.  I'm happy with this, https://www.ikonpass.com/en/access-details  which suits me nicely.  I prefer ikon because of the terrain at Squaw and Mammoth and their committment to a long spring season.  If kirkwood stayed open into late spring it would be a tougher decision.

I may not ski at all this season unless there is an effective vaccine.  I'm at high Covid risk and I'm terrified of public restrooms, whether at ski resorts, or anywhere.  We all need to evaluate our risk and make our own decisions.

Denis wrote:

Thanks for the details.  I'm happy with this, https://www.ikonpass.com/en/access-details  which suits me nicely.  I prefer ikon because of the terrain at Squaw and Mammoth and their committment to a long spring season.  If kirkwood stayed open into late spring it would be a tougher decision.

I may not ski at all this season unless there is an effective vaccine.  I'm at high Covid risk and I'm terrified of public restrooms, whether at ski resorts, or anywhere.  We all need to evaluate our risk and make our own decisions.

 

You're welcome.  My husband is also high risk.  However, we have found that it hasn't been that difficult to be careful where we go and the times so that there are not enough people around to be a concern.  My guess is that midweek you may not have any issues.  But as you say, is a personal decision what level of risk is acceptable.

Try to keep in mind that duration makes a big difference.  Going into a relatively empty public restroom for 5 min is pretty low risk.  Especially if everyone is wearing a face covering, which will be required in all ski resort buildings.  What a face covering does is greatly decrease the source transmission.  The reason everyone needs to be masked is that it's impossible to know for sure if someone is infected but has not symptoms.

My professional background is in clinic trials research for drug development.  I've been reading a lot for the past six months.  I've also been traveling away from home a few times.  That's given me the opportunity to observe first hand how people are acting.  It hasn't been hard to avoid places where no one is being sensible.  National headlines don't tell the whole story.

All true.  But I have to face facts, I'm male, 79, with heart disease and kidney disease.  I hate being called diseased, but I am in the language of the medical profession.  My wife is high risk as well, so decisions are made for the 2 of us.

Denis wrote:

Thanks for the details.  I'm happy with this, https://www.ikonpass.com/en/access-details  which suits me nicely.  I prefer ikon because of the terrain at Squaw and Mammoth and their committment to a long spring season.  If kirkwood stayed open into late spring it would be a tougher decision.

I may not ski at all this season unless there is an effective vaccine.  I'm at high Covid risk and I'm terrified of public restrooms, whether at ski resorts, or anywhere.  We all need to evaluate our risk and make our own decisions.

That's a nice table for Ikon access.  Although I wish they would note Alterra vs Partners.

Stay safe!

marzNC wrote:

Presumably most Ikon users last season were from the U.S. and that's not happening this winter.

You think most Americans just won't bother to try to go to Canada, or do you think there will still be border crossing restrictions in place (or both)?

Keith_Moon wrote:

marzNC wrote:

Presumably most Ikon users last season were from the U.S. and that's not happening this winter.

You think most Americans just won't bother to try to go to Canada, or do you think there will still be border crossing restrictions in place (or both)?

I doubt very much that Canada will open up the border with the U.S. any time soon.  Even without any imported cases, they are dealing with outbreaks in Quebec right now.  On the other side, NY and VT won't want to allow free access to Canadians for leisure activities.  VT currently has the most strict travel restrictions in the country.  Even people in VT counties that are considered "high risk" aren't supposed to go into "low risk" counties.

I have no doubt that if the border were to open, there are people in NYC, NJ, or the mid-Altantic who would consider driving up for a ski vacation in Quebec.  Tremblant is on Ikon.  The independent ski resorts near Quebec City are pretty big and not known for getting crowded.

marzNC wrote:

Keith_Moon wrote:

marzNC wrote:

Presumably most Ikon users last season were from the U.S. and that's not happening this winter.

You think most Americans just won't bother to try to go to Canada, or do you think there will still be border crossing restrictions in place (or both)?

I doubt very much that Canada will open up the border with the U.S. any time soon.  Even without any imported cases, they are dealing with outbreaks in Quebec right now.  On the other side, NY and VT won't want to allow free access to Canadians for leisure activities.  VT currently has the most strict travel restrictions in the country.  Even people in VT counties that are considered "high risk" aren't supposed to go into "low risk" counties.

I have no doubt that if the border were to open, there are people in NYC, NJ, or the mid-Altantic who would consider driving up for a ski vacation in Quebec.  Tremblant is on Ikon.  

Yeah, I'm one of those.  My wife and kids are dual US/Canadian citizens, so we can get into Canada; we just have to quarantine for 2 weeks at my in-laws' house in Ontario.  Since we can all do work/school remotely we are leaning toward doing just that: going up in early December and then heading over to Quebec after Christmas.  I "cleverly" jumped on Ikon Base Passes for all of us right before COVID hit, expressly to we could go to Tremblant this year, since we alternate years going to Canada for Christmas.  Basically the Ikon Base passes pay for themselves with 3 days at Tremblant and 2 at Snowshoe, assuming dollar exchange rates hold steady  We COULD also just defer until next year but then my son ages out of the cheaper junior passes (or whatever they call them) and it blows the economics all to hell.

If I had known what would happen with COVID I would have gotten an Indy Pass and just stayed relatively local this year,  Oh well...

Keith_Moon wrote:

Yeah, I'm one of those.  My wife and kids are dual US/Canadian citizens, so we can get into Canada; we just have to quarantine for 2 weeks at my in-laws' house in Ontario.  Since we can all do work/school remotely we are leaning toward doing just that: going up in early December and then heading over to Quebec after Christmas.  I "cleverly" jumped on Ikon Base Passes for all of us right before COVID hit, expressly to we could go to Tremblant this year, since we alternate years going to Canada for Christmas.  Basically the Ikon Base passes pay for themselves with 3 days at Tremblant and 2 at Snowshoe, assuming dollar exchange rates hold steady  We COULD also just defer until next year but then my son ages out of the cheaper junior passes (or whatever they call them) and it blows the economics all to hell.

If I had known what would happen with COVID I would have gotten an Indy Pass and just stayed relatively local this year,  Oh well...

What route would you drive up to Ontario?  I have friends who just drove up to Lake Placid to drop off their daughter at boarding school.  Didn't have an issues staying in a motel overnight in NY, even though NC is on the "high risk" list of states.  Since 5% Percent Positive is one of the criteria, may well not be an issue in another couple months.  NC is right around there after being in the 7-9% range for several months.

We always take I-81 north, via Greensboro and Roanoke and up through Syracuse.  If we are able to do the trip and go to Tremblant we will likely have to return via I-87 and I-95.  Not happy about that, but it's the best way back.

Keith_Moon wrote:

We always take I-81 north, via Greensboro and Roanoke and up through Syracuse.  If we are able to do the trip and go to Tremblant we will likely have to return via I-87 and I-95.  Not happy about that, but it's the best way back.

The way I drive to NC after heading south from Albany is down I-81 to I-64.  From there I take the same roads I take between the Triangle and Massanutten.  It's perhaps 50 miles longer, but takes about the same time.  Far less stressful driving than the NY Thruway and NJ Turnpike.  Plus no tolls, which really add up.

When I do drive thru NJ, I don't drive near Baltimore or DC.  I get off I-95 in DE and get onto US301, headed towards Annapolis and Fort Hill.  US301 is 4-lane in DE after Middletown.  The route with the least traffic is Exit 1A to RT896, which is just west of the DE Travel Center.  RT207 connects US301 and I95.  By the time you end up on I-95, no worries about traffic.  Best to avoid speeding near Fort Hill.

Been driving between NY and NC since the 1970s.  I've done it every way possible. Have driven without stopping overnight between the Triangle and Lake Placid more times than I can remember.

Been doing upstate NY - DC trips for ever, going to Killington from Arlington sometimes we leave at midnight and roll into the Denny's in Rutland at 7:15 for breakfast.

a friend who also doesn't like to drive the 95 way takes her closer to 9 hours going via 81, it's not even close going that long way around, you spend 1/3 of the money you would have on  tolls paying extra gas going the long way with many mountains to go over in the winter they can be tough and windy let alone snow, along with the many trucks that go on 81, meanwhile 95 and NY thruway follows along lower elevation and a lot less hills and you can make up a lot more time as cars travel much faster, you can get behind others and draft to save more gas. And you have 3 lanes most of the way until you get off rt 87  40 minutes north of Albany 

from Albany to Killington google maps tells you to take rt 7 but taking 87 north of Albany is faster as you can make up time going that route unlike rt 7 that puts you in Vermont sooner where the police will pull over and ticket speeders as that's their revenue  , they are not the negotiators that NY and NJ police are,

good to have various opinions as it's amazing the difference in ones driving preferences , I know another local who is afraid of driving on the DC beltway and drives out of the way almost daily 

Since the speed limits increased and easy pass came around it really helped the flow on 95. Just use a smart phone to monitor traffic and don't travel at the busiest times.

Vermont wrote:

Been doing upstate NY - DC trips for ever, going to Killington from Arlington sometimes we leave at midnight and roll into the Denny's in Rutland at 7:15 for breakfast.

a friend who also doesn't like to drive the 95 way takes her closer to 9 hours going via 81, it's not even close going that long way around, you spend 1/3 of the money you would have on  tolls paying extra gas going the long way with many mountains to go over in the winter they can be tough and windy let alone snow, along with the many trucks that go on 81, meanwhile 95 and NY thruway follows along lower elevation and a lot less hills and you can make up a lot more time as cars travel much faster, you can get behind others and draft to save more gas. And you have 3 lanes most of the way until you get off rt 87  40 minutes north of Albany 

from Albany to Killington google maps tells you to take rt 7 but taking 87 north of Albany is faster as you can make up time going that route unlike rt 7 that puts you in Vermont sooner where the police will pull over and ticket speeders as that's their revenue  , they are not the negotiators that NY and NJ police are,

good to have various opinions as it's amazing the difference in ones driving preferences , I know another local who is afraid of driving on the DC beltway and drives out of the way almost daily 

Since the speed limits increased and easy pass came around it really helped the flow on 95. Just use a smart phone to monitor traffic and don't travel at the busiest times.

Driving from DC to VT is quite a different situation than starting in central NC and driving to Lake Placid or Quebec.  I've done the drive from my house to VT as well, usually as a detour when the final destination was Boston.  Still prefer to go up US29 and over to I-81 south of Charlottesville, then eventually across I-84 well north of NYC.  As long as I can time it to avoid rush hour in Harrisburg or around Wilkes-Barre, works out well.  Traffic around DC/Baltimore is far worse than it used to be 45 years ago when my father was still working in NYC and I had to take the NJ Turnpike.

Of course, people have different priorities.  For me, a less stressful drive is worth a slight detour.  Used to take US29 between DC and Chapel Hill back when it wasn't all 4-lane.  Took an hour longer than I-95/I-85 but a much prettier drive, especially during fall colors.  It's about an hour longer driving via I-81 and I-84 to Newburgh, NY versus I-85/I-95 to the NY Thruway.  But 10 hours of less stressful driving vs 9 hours works better for me, about 60 miles difference out of around 615 miles the long way.

I guess it's how we are brought up, both of my parents were big on vacation road trips and never flinch while driving , (that gets passed down to kids watching their parents drive) for me   taking the shortest route makes for stress free trips , I can't imagine having to drive thru Pa going to Vermont especially now that 95 has gotten so much better.

Vermont wrote:

I guess it's how we are brought up, both of my parents were big on vacation road trips and never flinch while driving , (that gets passed down to kids watching their parents drive) for me   taking the shortest route makes for stress free trips , I can't imagine having to drive thru Pa going to Vermont especially now that 95 has gotten so much better.

Yep, different backgrounds lead to different priorities.  I grew up riding around with my parents and older brother for vacations all over N. America and Europe.  We spent a month driving from NYC to the Canadian Rockies when I was in middle school.  It wasn't always about going the shortest route between overnight stays on the way to Jasper because there were things to see and people to meet along the way.  My father was a professor who didn't teach in the summers but did other work instead, including giving lectures all over the world.  Can cover a lot of miles during a 3-month summer vacation.

In any case, driving from DC to VT is different than starting in central NC and driving to back from Quebec after using Ikon, which is what started the discussion.

For more about driving to VT from DC, go here:

http://www.dcski.com/forum/100164

I-81 through PA is a death trap. While I-95 from DC is no great shakes, you don't have the numerous ridges,  truck traffic, higher elevation and random FOOOOOOOG. There is a reason 50 car pileups occur on roads like I-81, 68, 76 and they don't on I-95.

Yes we used to take scenic routes definitely a lot of fun! Getting from the city ( DC)  to Vermont though we prefer the quickest way to get to paradise ( Vermont) to get as much time on the slopes as possible,  from Albany as it was said 87 , rt 4 the best unless we are trying to stay ahead of a storm that might already hit 87 north of Albany, so taking Rt 7 from Albany heads east sooner to stay ahead f the storm 

JohnL wrote:

I-81 through PA is a death trap. While I-95 from DC is no great shakes, you don't have the numerous ridges,  truck traffic, higher elevation and random FOOOOOOOG. There is a reason 50 car pileups occur on roads like I-81, 68, 76 and they don't on I-95.

I've often experienced pea soup fog on I-70 going over the high point just south of Breezewood.  That's the main route to Blue Knob and Seven springs.

Denis wrote:

JohnL wrote:

I-81 through PA is a death trap. While I-95 from DC is no great shakes, you don't have the numerous ridges,  truck traffic, higher elevation and random FOOOOOOOG. There is a reason 50 car pileups occur on roads like I-81, 68, 76 and they don't on I-95.

I've often experienced pea soup fog on I-70 going over the high point just south of Breezewood.  That's the main route to Blue Knob and Seven springs.

Yes the fog and one damn mountain after another on 81, when you see the windmills that's a sign of the wind you will face also the gas prices in Pa are some of the highest in the nation ,  the 95 corridor rocks for skiing as it just heads north