Currently there isn't a "donate" button but the support page does have options to purchase lift tickets, a season pass, etc. It seems to function like a store instead of really a crowdfunding initiative. Phase 2 of the funding apparently is to offer timberline visitors investments in their slopeside properties down the line...
If their goal is actually only $75,000, I don't know how they plan on building properties with that kind of money... :D
Amazingly, a new lift isn't mentioned in their plans for what they'll do with this money.
Home page: http://www.snowfunding.com/
Press release: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2015/01/prweb12472085.htm
I'm wondering what this is all about? After reading the promo, I wonder if this is just a marketing tool after the falling sales at the resort due to lift and snowmaking issues. Maybe their first attempt at marketing in many years. I do know that there is a huge backlog of maintenance required to get the area 100% open and that current owners are out of capital to fund it otherwise it would have been done. Perhaps if I make a donation to the cause I could designate that it go toward erecting "for sale" signs so a legitimate owner/operator could step in and make the necessary fixes for daily operations then consider upgrades.
Desperate times require desperate measures? Seems lame but I hope they can turn that place around to make it viable... without making it too deuchy and upscale at the same time. I love the rustic, mom and pop vibe ski mountains. Too bad they are a dying breed.
in a nutshell, it's a terribly marketed campaign. It doesn't even follow the basic structure of crowdfunding. These guys need a LOT of help to get this off the ground.
If it was truly a crowfunding campaign, with a normal donation structure, prizes for higher donations and getting in earlier rather than later, and some set goals with visualizations of what they want to do.... THEN, I'd be all for this.
In it's current structure, it's almost bound to fail.
That said, a sunday lift ticket till 4:30 for $41 is a pretty good deal. If nothing else, it's a lift ticket deal...
NonstopSki wrote:
in a nutshell, it's a terribly marketed campaign. It doesn't even follow the basic structure of crowdfunding. These guys need a LOT of help to get this off the ground.
If it was truly a crowfunding campaign, with a normal donation structure, prizes for higher donations and getting in earlier rather than later, and some set goals with visualizations of what they want to do.... THEN, I'd be all for this.
In it's current structure, it's almost bound to fail.
That said, a sunday lift ticket till 4:30 for $41 is a pretty good deal. If nothing else, it's a lift ticket deal...
I agree with everything said. To bad that Fred doesn't have a clue about this and other associatd things....
I really wanted to love Timberline after going there two years ago, but I could only love the potential. I don't think I'll be back on a weekend until they upgrade the lifts. I wonder if the extension of Corridor H to Davis next winter will help.
---
William F. Yurasko
NonstopSki wrote:
If nothing else, it's a lift ticket deal...
Bingo. That's all it is. Well, a lift ticket deal and a lodging deal and a rentals deal and a season pass deal. Nothing more than offering price discounts to try to drum up increased business the rest of the season, with a little social media viral marketing thrown in. Or am I missing something?
Well If any T-line employees are here and listing I would like to say that I would be more then happy to edit videos for 5 dollars an hour if it helps.
yet another reason to cross-country ski in canaan valley (cost-nothing ski)
If Tucker is listing I will tune/wax you snowbored for 10 dollers and shovvol you're walkway for 6 dollars and hour.
snapdragon wrote:
If Tucker is listing I will tune/wax you snowbored for 10 dollers and shovvol you're walkway for 6 dollars and hour.
Well hell yeah, that's not even minimum wages dudes, who you work for could get in big trouble not paying you minimum wage. Minimum wage in WV is what, $7.25?
I'm self-employed and sometimes you gotta take what you can git. Times are rough out there these days. No snow and I donnot eat!
Would it be overall best in the long-run if they went under and were purchased by someone like Peak resorts? Imagine if they or someone other than Vail came in and installed a hi-speed quad, put reliable, computerized snowmaking on all of the runs with the power that snowshoe has, made one of the existing lifts a dedicated midmountain lift and cleaned up ALL the glades. Tickets would be more expensive, but the product would consistently be so much better.
Droogie wrote:
Would it be overall best in the long-run if they went under and were purchased by someone like Peak resorts? Imagine if they or someone other than Vail came in and installed a hi-speed quad, put reliable, computerized snowmaking on all of the runs with the power that snowshoe has, made one of the existing lifts a dedicated midmountain lift and cleaned up ALL the glades. Tickets would be more expensive, but the product would consistently be so much better.
I have mixed feelings about all of this. Love the mountain because there is NOTHING like it anywhere south of NE. However, I've watched the owners bumble along making mistake after mistake including no marketing, no improvements, no maintenance unless it's do ro die, and a lack of pride in the potential they have. Status quo is everything to them. This new program, though it's probably at little if any cost, will do little to keep them skiing another season. Maybe if they just hired a few more lifties and then ran the chairs at higher speed it wuld help.
Droogie wrote:
.....cleaned up ALL the glades. ....
What do you mean by "clean up ALL the glades"?
BTW - Welcome back Kim!
IMO, you go two directions:
1. Skiing is a capital intensive business, we all know that. Especially in the mid-Atlantic, where you need reliable snowmaking. Bring in outside capital by either taking on partners, or selling. Completely revamp the place, and turn it into the next Snowshoe, only newer, and closer to DC and Pittsburgh. If not snowshoe, think Massanutten. Add lodging, a pool complex, a Starbucks, etc. Totally different ambience, but that would allow you to massively upgrade the lifts, base area, and snowmaking.
2. Turn it into the next MRG or Magic Mountain. Sell some portion of equity to your customers as a co-op. Give them a true stake in it in exchange for raising capital. This is risky, and could be an absolute mess for both sides if not done 100% perfectly.
haha X 1,000,000,000
They should hold a snow man hostage and threaten to cut off his head if no moneys by 4.30.
Hi, all! It's good to see that people are talking about our Snowfunding campaign, even if you have a lot of unanswered questions. I would like to try to address some of them now:
“Nonstop”: “Currently there isn’t a “donate” button but the support page does have options to purchase lift tickets, a season pass, etc. It seems to function like a store instead of really a crowdfunding initiative.”
Timberline: There is now a Donate button. Yes, the resort’s offers are being sold as the “rewards.” And yes, this does differ a bit from a typical crowdfunding campaign. However, not that different. What if Timberline were producing a gadget and needed funds to further develop and deliver the gadget? Backers are donating money to support this process and might be receiving the gadget at the end of the campaign. For Timberline, the product offers are lift tickets and package deals and the funds that are being raised support the further development and enhancement of these products.
“Nonstop” ”“ “Phase 2 of the funding apparently is to offer timberline visitors investments in their slopeside properties down the line”¦
If their goal is actually only $75,000, I don’t know how they plan on building properties with that kind of money”¦ :D
Amazingly, a new lift isn’t mentioned in their plans for what they’ll do with this money.”
Timberline: We have clarified that $75k is the goal for Phase 1. It's as much about investigating and planning the needed improvements for Phase 2 by eliciting customer feedback as it is initially raising money to make the improvements.Lift improvements are now mentioned in the campaign, but were always part of the plan.
“Nonstop”: “in a nutshell, it’s a terribly marketed campaign. It doesn’t even follow the basic structure of crowdfunding. These guys need a LOT of help to get this off the ground. If it was truly a crowfunding campaign, with a normal donation structure, prizes for higher donations and getting in earlier rather than later, and some set goals with visualizations of what they want to do”¦. THEN, I’d be all for this. In it’s current structure, it’s almost bound to fail.”
Timberline: Crowdfunding is all about support from people who want a venture to succeed. For Timberline, the support comes from purchases of substantially discounted products ”“ the lift tickets and lodging. We discussed whether a “normal donation structure” should be the way to go, but decided that prospective backers would be more inclined to support the campaign if they received the actual products as rewards for their “donations.” Thanks for the feedback in regards to adding visualizations of the enhancements.
We encourage your support in helping us to succeed with Snowfunding, which we know is a novel and different approach for a ski resort to fund developments. Positive, constructive and encouraging comments would definitely be welcomed.
Timberline4SR wrote:
We encourage your support in helping us to succeed with Snowfunding, which we know is a novel and different approach for a ski resort to fund developments. Positive, constructive and encouraging comments would definitely be welcomed.
I have heard many folks discussing this marketing campaign in the last few days, and overwhelmingly I am hearing the same questions arise in conversations.
As far as a marketing instrument developed to increase funds for capital improvements, while at the same time potentially increaseing revenue from growing the customer base I am interested in how this will be accomplished with snowfunding.
Very basically it seems as though the campaign is set up as an offer of slightly discounted pricing on existing product with the promise that monies acquired will go directly and solely to significant upgrades. While it will likely create a short term web/social media buzz and possibly create more on line sales because of discounted pricing as well as the basic ease of purchasing product, how does the small increase in volume of sales match the devaluation in price point on product sales and the hard cost of hiring this company to set up the high end interactive website (which I must add is a great website. you might want to strongly consider gettting that company to re-construct the current Timberline website...this snowfunding website appears much easier to use and more importantly much easier to purchase product on).
In addition doesn't this campaign to use the sale of existing discounted product to directly fund capital improvements diminish the ability of regular day to day revenue from the same product sales to support current operations, overhead, etc. Nonetheless, what if the 75k mark is acheived? Of course 75k won't put a dent in the cost of any of the improvements that have been outlined. Where does the rest of funding for the capital improvements come from? Is there a guarantee that the funds acquired in the snowfunding campaign will solely go towards capital improvements? What happens to the donations that are raised if there is simply not enough monies raised to make the advertised improvements...will monies be held in an escrow account until improvements are made? Since it seems as though the word "donation" is specifically used, are you seeking or do you have 501 c 3 status?
P.S. the snow surface at Timberline has been awesome over the last few days. If anyone has been waiting for the snow to get good before coming to the valley...don't wait, it's go time!
Very good questions, Tucker. I have tried to address them below:
Tucker: “ Very basically it seems as though the campaign is set up as an offer of slightly discounted pricing on existing product with the promise that monies acquired will go directly and solely to significant upgrades.”
Timberline: Yes, that is the purpose. We have discounted as much as possible.
Tucker: “ While it will likely create a short term web/social media buzz and possibly create more on line sales because of discounted pricing as well as the basic ease of purchasing product, how does the small increase in volume of sales match the devaluation in price point on product sales and the hard cost of hiring this company to set up the high end interactive website (which I must add is a great website.”
Timberline: Thanks for the comments and compliments. Yes, devaluation of price points is a potential issue if we were to make this a permanent approach, but that is not the case. First and foremost, this is an awareness campaign and an effort to rally existing and potential customers to support Timberline as it embarks on its capital improvements. This is the first stage of a multi-stage capital raising campaign. We hope that some of Timberline’s current and future customers become investors through the subsequent equity raising phases. The equity stages will seek to raise a more significant amount of capital to fund the improvements that an outside ski consulting group is currently studying. When we receive their final report, we will be able to release more details.
Tucker: “What happens to the donations that are raised if there is simply not enough monies raised to make the advertised improvements. ”¦will monies be held in an escrow account until improvements are made?”
Timberline: We are conducting studies for the improvements. The donations help support this work. The money will not be held in escrow.
Tucker: “Since it seems as though the word “donation” is specifically used, are you seeking or do you have 501 c 3 status?”
Timberline: We are not seeking 501c3 status. We added the possibility of donating because some people have wanted to donate rather than purchase one of the Timberline offers.
Thanks again for taking the time to provide us with feedback.
As mentioned before, we welcome constructive comments that help us to improve the snowfunding.com campaign and thus the resort and skiing opportunities as much as possible. Consider this also as crowdsourcing and crowdfunding solutions.
And, of course, the best way to support us is to take advantage of our snowfunding.com deals and great skiing opportunities. The more you ski, the better we can implement our improvement plans and thus generate more spending and employment for the region.
Thanks for the response.
When you say,
"This is the first stage of a multi-stage capital raising campaign. We hope that some of Timberline’s current and future customers become investors through the subsequent equity raising phases."
Is the "equity" you are referring to in subsequent phases simply a gift of capital in the form of donations from customers OR does this mean that you will be seeking customer to become investors who by investing will be purchasing or then own a certain percentage of stake in the company?
The next phase will involve the creation of a special purpose investment vehicle that will allow accredited investors to invest in the resort. We are in the process of creating that vehicle and will release more details after it is created. If you would like to discuss this in more detail, we are happy to connect you directly to a member of our snowfunding team.
"Timberline: We are conducting studies for the improvements. The donations help support this work. The money will not be held in escrow."
Can you give us more information on the studies being conducted for improvements? Are you looking at other successfully operated ski resorts in the Mid Atlantic to get ideas? Does the budget for these studies include payment for architects and engineers to design chairlift layouts, snowmaking infrastructure, etc. specific to Timberline?
I appreciate the very straighforward answers that Timberline has provided here. It seems like an interesting step towards a change that many people have been hoping for.
It's a great ski area and I hope it does very well. I admit I haven't been in a couple years, since Snowshoe did the $200 season pass I just couldn't justify the extra cost to go to Timberline. But the snow and the trails, when open, are great and I look forward to coming back soon.
Thanks for your inquiry. The studies are intended to provide an evaluation to determine the necessary improvements to the resort and then recommendations for implementing the improvements and, of course, making Timberline an even more attractive destination. We look forward to reviewing the final report and implementing the recommendations. The list of some of the planned improvements are listed on snowfunding.com.
Another dimension to the snowfunding campaign is that we are trying to incentivize customers and prospective visitors through a refer-a-friend program via http://snowfunding.referralcandy.com/ We are trying hard to make the most of social media marketing to get the word out. We’re happy to hear from social media mavens and ski fans of any tips.
fishnski -- We have received a lot of valuable input from customers just in the few days since we launched the snowfunding.com campaign, and we have already made some adjustments to our improvement priorities and the structure of the campaign. Any input you can give is welcome. We will consider each suggestion, especially those which come up frequently. Thanks for weighing in, and thanks for your support throughout the years. You are appreciated!
Good point. If the 75G is for a study we could use that money. I don't think anyone wants to change the atmosphere of timberline, just make what is there work better. If it turns into snowshoe north, i would stop going. If it turns into saddleback south, i would go twice as much.
btw, I think Beech Mtn is also a good comparison, the last few years they have invested a lot every year in snowmaking, refurbed the day lodge, built a new yurt bar which looks very profitable, removed an unused eyesore lift, realinged and improved the park, replaced a j-bar with a magic carpet, replaced the rental fleet, and they runs tons of events. It seems to be working, the experience is the same, just much better.
I'm a customer experience executive for an $80+ billion company, and have worked as a consultant with dozens of top companies, from airlines, to cruise lines, to hospitality firms, to banks.
I think what Timberline is doing is great, and it's even more great that you're on here discussing it. I haven't checked Epicski in the past couple of days, but I suspect you could answer customer questions over there, as well.
You certainly still have a challenge, but a lot of good things going for you (location, terrain, natural snowfall). I took a daytrip last season and enjoyed it.
I'd think late September, early October would be the ideal time to fundraise from skiers. That is when we are most desperate and anxious to get everything ready to go for November/December. It's practically spring now, still plenty of good skiing left, but people are spending their disposable cash on lift tickets right now so that part of the program might work.
Unfortunately, I don't think that Timberline is going to pull in a lot more traffic by lowering the rates. It's just too far away from other competitors to for that to be feasible. Might get a little more local traffic, but it seems that they should just raice prices and charge what it costs them to operate and keep their equipment maintained well enough to not LOSE customers. They won't pull in a lot of people from far away with infrastructure, but the certainly can chase people away to far places with persisntant lift breakdowns and lack or snow. I'd pay ten bucks more to ski there with everything as is but a little more reliable. I wouldn't change a Blue Knob or Snowshoe trip to a Timberline trip for cheaper prices.
crgildart wrote: I wouldn't change a Blue Knob or Snowshoe trip to a Timberline trip for cheaper prices.
I totally agree, The thing is somehow people just find out about SS. I honestly dont get why, Evryone who is new to the sport is like " hey dude im going to snowshoe cant wait" Its all about mis information. If you can put snowshoe's " lies" in an add that would get a lot of cash in. I myself lways try to get people to understand that ss is not what they say it is...
Here is a typical conversation from 13 years ago...I could probably go back 16 years ago and find posts like it...over the years these posts continue..over and over....people come and go...promises made but never kept....abundant snows and views and those deer the Colonel talked about kept folks like me coming back year after year...meanwhile ski areas way south or further east without the advantages of valley have evolved while the Valley just stays stuck in time......by the way...the Silver Queen lift was one of the first lifts at Crested Butte Co back in the early 60's...yeh...we are still riding it today at TL.....and now uall want some donations.....good luck....I wish us the best.. As I do every year....us loyalist desearve a better tomorrow.....been living in the past too friggin long!! .................................................
."Colonel (13 years ago).......... There is no more peaceful place to ski and stay than the Canaan Valley areas. Alas, neither area appears owned and operated by “deep pockets” like Snowshoe and Seven Springs. Look at the current situation: a snowmaking disaster at Canaan and a lift capacity disaster at Timberline. If only the ski slopes could be owned and operated by a major outfit, for there is tremendous potential for a wonderful ski cirque by combining and expanding the areas. Timberline has the best fall line slopes in the area, but its no fun when you stand in line for 40 minutes on a busy weekend because of an inadequate lift capacity - talk about needing a high speed quad! Thanks for the tip-off that Canaan Valley Ski Area is having serious snowmaking problems. With their mickey-mouse website slope reports one cannot figure out whats happening and must wonder why more slopes are not opening. If only the areas could reach their potential. But don’t hod your breath as long as the state owns Canaan Valley”¦while there is no question a new lodge was needed”¦a ski area without snow isn’t. I still love skiing there. One day I saw more than 100 deer on the short trip from Canaan Lodge to the ski area.
John Sherwood (13 years ago) The lift situation at Timberline has greatly improved since last year. The resort did extensive work on the Silver Queen double this summer. Both lifts were operating on Saturday and I never waited in line for more than a couple of minutes despite a healthy crowd of people."
Here is a link to the history of skiing in the land of Canaan....
http://www.canaanvi.org/canaanvi_web/uploadedfiles/events/past_events/lutz_paper.pdf
.....Great read...all of us who make this area our home or home away from home and post about it and share with others about it..and just plain live it..are part of that history!..long live Canaan Valley and the Wv Alpps!
Reisen wrote:
I'm a customer experience executive for an $80+ billion company, and have worked as a consultant with dozens of top companies, from airlines, to cruise lines, to hospitality firms, to banks.
I think what Timberline is doing is great, and it's even more great that you're on here discussing it. I haven't checked Epicski in the past couple of days, but I suspect you could answer customer questions over there, as well.
You certainly still have a challenge, but a lot of good things going for you (location, terrain, natural snowfall). I took a daytrip last season and enjoyed it.
Thanks for the kind words! Come back and see us again sometime. :)
Antoine wrote:
crgildart wrote: I wouldn't change a Blue Knob or Snowshoe trip to a Timberline trip for cheaper prices.
I totally agree, The thing is somehow people just find out about SS. I honestly dont get why, Evryone who is new to the sport is like " hey dude im going to snowshoe cant wait" Its all about mis information. If you can put snowshoe's " lies" in an add that would get a lot of cash in. I myself lways try to get people to understand that ss is not what they say it is...
Antoine all due respect here (yes I'm a SS homer) but .......
Is Proctor and Gamble a liar b/c they say Tide is awesome laundry detergent and Bounty is the quicker picker upper?
C'mon folks. It's Marketing 101. TL is a GREAT place but SS drives the marketing $$. People are sheep. Tell them what they want to hear and they will follow the flock.
I understand the "vibe" thing at TL. TL is awesome but be realistic. SS is a mid atlantic marketing machine just like 7S.
Antoine, I respectly disagree with your negative comments about Snowshoe. And "NO", I am not trying to change this thread about TL to a debate about SS. 'Nuf said.
the Colonel
What Timberline needs, IMHO, is "more" and "better." More money for improvements to nearly all aspects of owning-running a ski area, more customers, better faster lifts, state of the art snowmaking across this entire wonderful ski mountain, better/more rental equipment, management that recognizes running a lodge that keeps customers in line for hours renting equipment (especially on big weekends will not generate return visits, etc.
Unfortunately it is obvious that keeping the present "ambiance" (that so many regulars seem to want) does not and will not generate enough money to accomplish the above improvements much less paying for annual and routine maintenance of equipment essential to running a Mid-Atlantic ski area (snowmaking infrastructure, lift maintenance, grooming equipment, better training of employees who directly interact with customers). It requires a management structure that looks to plow ski area generated funds back into improvements which eventually will lead to the generation of even more revenue due to increased skier visits, management that puts business first and family operations second. Management that provides sufficient trained staffing (especially on big weekends) that generates return visits from new customers rather than leaving a bad taste thus driving potential future revenue away.
Unless there is a major infusion of new capital (additional or new ownership, or ownership philosphy such as the Mad River Glen model in Vermont) most of the ski area needs will not happen, unfortunately!
Assuming large amounts of capital become available, here are my priorities for upgrading the TL ski experience:
1. If it works now leave it alone or make minor tweaks - ski school & slope grooming.
2. Better customer relations training, and management customer awareness.
3. Massive improvements in new automated snowmaking technology that nearly guarantees reliable skiing from Thanksgiving until late March.
4. Lift upgrades that speed up existing uphill capacity.
5. Spiff up the lodge with paint and furniture, better signage, better rental operation.
6. Install a modern high speed lift near the present lower lift, make present lower lift end at present mid station.
7. Build a new lodge or move skier services into a new dedicated building (rentals, lockers, basket storage, lift ticket sales) freeing up the existing structure for customer comfort and food services.
8. And then, only when all is complete and Timberline can compete ski experience wise with the SS's, 7Springs's, Wintergreen's, only then put investment capital into lodging. Otherwise there will not be customers to fill new lodging.
TL has a golden opportunity to take advantage of the new customers that a soon completed Corridor H highway will bring.
The question is, will they, can they? Otherwise they will continue to degrade, and someone will built a nearby Tory, Mt Point Cranyon, or something else for the CV area.
The Colonel
PS: I forgot to mention improvements to the parking area
FWIW I've never bothered to go checkout Snowshoe. Doesn't sould like my kindof place. I might go to 7S simply because the wife doesn't ski and has been compalining that we should take family trips someplace where there are things she can do as well. The past several years she and lil sis have stayed home but now lil sis is learning to ski. Wife skiing isn't an option due to medical conditions.
The Colonel wrote:
What Timberline needs, IMHO, is "more" and "better." More money for improvements to nearly all aspects of owning-running a ski area, more customers, better faster lifts, state of the art snowmaking across this entire wonderful ski mountain, better/more rental equipment, management that recognizes running a lodge that keeps customers in line for hours renting equipment (especially on big weekends will not generate return visits, etc.
Unfortunately it is obvious that keeping the present "ambiance" (that so many regulars seem to want) does not and will not generate enough money to accomplish the above improvements much less paying for annual and routine maintenance of equipment essential to running a Mid-Atlantic ski area (snowmaking infrastructure, lift maintenance, grooming equipment, better training of employees who directly interact with customers). It requires a management structure that looks to plow ski area generated funds back into improvements which eventually will lead to the generation of even more revenue due to increased skier visits, management that puts business first and family operations second. Management that provides sufficient trained staffing (especially on big weekends) that generates return visits from new customers rather than leaving a bad taste thus driving potential future revenue away.
Unless there is a major infusion of new capital (additional or new ownership, or ownership philosphy such as the Mad River Glen model in Vermont) most of the ski area needs will not happen, unfortunately!
Assuming large amounts of capital become available, here are my priorities for upgrading the TL ski experience:
1. If it works now leave it alone or make minor tweaks - ski school & slope grooming.
2. Better customer relations training, and management customer awareness.
3. Massive improvements in new automated snowmaking technology that nearly guarantees reliable skiing from Thanksgiving until late March.
4. Lift upgrades that speed up existing uphill capacity (such as an auto loading carpet, better lift crowd management
5. Spiff up the lodge with paint and furniture, better signage, better rental operation.
6. Install a modern high speed lift near the present lower lift, make present lower lift end at present mid station.
7. Build a new lodge or move skier services into a new dedicated building (rentals, lockers, basket storage, lift ticket sales) freeing up the existing structure for customer comfort and food services.
8. And then, only when all is complete and Timberline can compete ski experience wise with the SS's, 7Springs's, Wintergreen's, only then put investment capital into lodging. Otherwise there will not be customers to fill new lodging.
TL has a golden opportunity to take advantage of the new customers that a soon completed Corridor H highway will bring.
The question is, will they, can they? Otherwise they will continue to degrade, and someone will built a nearby Tory, Mt Point Cranyon, or something else for the CV area.
The Colonel
PS: I forgot to mention improvements to the parking area
My post is complete, your thoughts!?
Maybe the resort could learn something from Jay Peak's foreign investor visa program:
http://www.jaypeakresort.com/eb5-visa/about/
It might attract some unsavory types but that would be nothing new in WV. 😄
An interesting federal program, and a legal run around immigration and security common sense; but something for TL to consider.
I once was on a plane ride with a marketing guy 5-10 years ago. He mentioned he did those rainbow skittle commercials. I said oh yeah, those are cool commercials. He asked if it made me want to buy skittles. When I said no, he said the commercial must not have been that great because it didn't do its job. So I guess if the objective is to generate discussion, it is doing an ok job. Is it getting donations, I guess is yet to be determined.
Colonel say no to the high speed lift it will steal you soul. Once we open the box no going back.
But the middie lift is the right idea. Run it right up good intentions and move the park over there.
Timberline hire me and I will fix it all 😀
Timberline4SR,
If you are able to raise $75K, every penny should be spent on fixing the snowmaking system. The #1 complaint on Saturday, wasn't the long lift lines, it was the lack of open terrain. Why wasn't the The Drop, Off the Wall, and the rest of the mountain open at the end of January for the holiday weekend?
Without snow, you can't sell lift tickets, rent houses, sell food, etc. I know several families who wanted to rent a house and spend Christmas in the Valley, but decided not to due to the lack of snow/open terrain.
SCWVA wrote:
Timberline4SR,
If you are able to raise $75K, every penny should be spent on fixing the snowmaking system.
This.
Amen!!
The Colonel
SCWVA wrote:
Timberline4SR,
If you are able to raise $75K, every penny should be spent on fixing the snowmaking system. The #1 complaint on Saturday, wasn't the long lift lines, it was the lack of open terrain. Why wasn't the The Drop, Off the Wall, and the rest of the mountain open at the end of January for the holiday weekend?
Without snow, you can't sell lift tickets, rent houses, sell food, etc. I know several families who wanted to rent a house and spend Christmas in the Valley, but decided not to due to the lack of snow/open terrain.
Snowmaking improvements are definitely a priority. You are right, we have to have snow for people to ski on. Phase 1 of our snowfunding.com campaign has a modest fundraising goal -- some of the larger, more capital-intensive changes will be made during Phase 2. Check out the updated FAQ's on snowfunding.com for more information.
Timberline4SR wrote:
Snowmaking improvements are definitely a priority. .
So nice to see your comments and answers here. "Communication" has often been another Timberline problem in the past. I'll pile on and say that I wouldn't want to see any new products, until the existing product is improved. I wouldn't want to see more hotel rooms or a snow tubing park come before the lift, snowmaking, and lodge improvements.
Amen!
camp wrote:
Timberline4SR wrote:
Snowmaking improvements are definitely a priority. .
So nice to see your comments and answers here. "Communication" has often been another Timberline problem in the past. I'll pile on and say that I wouldn't want to see any new products, until the existing product is improved. I wouldn't want to see more hotel rooms or a snow tubing park come before the lift, snowmaking, and lodge improvements.
Same goes for a water park and ziplines..
I dont know T-line to well but with all of those glades a mnt bike park is a great idea. consider the sport has exploded in this area in the last several years, and not many places offer it near dc. Its genius really minimal work, gets word out, and gets money during the offseason when resorts dont make any money!
Antoine wrote:
.. mnt bike park is a great idea. ..
It is a great idea. And Timberline does have one, and the lifts are an even bigger problem for loading and unloading bikes since it has to constantly stop, and not all the chairs can be filled. The bike operation is very poorly run compared to Bryce, Seven Springs, Wisp etc.
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
- Real estate development - you'll need a bigger bed base once word gets out of all the above improvements and easier access from DC but keep the glitz down. No faux Alpine/Austrian needed, keep it West Virginia original.
- Amen
crgildart wrote:
camp wrote:
Timberline4SR wrote:
Snowmaking improvements are definitely a priority. .
So nice to see your comments and answers here. "Communication" has often been another Timberline problem in the past. I'll pile on and say that I wouldn't want to see any new products, until the existing product is improved. I wouldn't want to see more hotel rooms or a snow tubing park come before the lift, snowmaking, and lodge improvements.
Same goes for a water park and ziplines..
Snowmobile races in March....................
Antoine wrote:
Laurel Hill Crazie wrote:
- Real estate development - you'll need a bigger bed base once word gets out of all the above improvements and easier access from DC but keep the glitz down. No faux Alpine/Austrian needed, keep it West Virginia original.
- Amen
3) Better highway access that comes within 30 minutes of the mountain and doesn't have 45 minutes of solid switchbacks. The infrastructue surrounding Timberline is a MAJOR obstacle to drawing the big vacation crowds.
fishnski wrote:
They have enough snowmaking...its not that large of an area to cover..sure..more is always better but I have seen how much snow they can blow..when they want to...pretty impressive at times!......TL and Canaan have been spoiled by mama nature over the years and they only spend as little as they can blowing figuring that one or two storms will come along and they will come out smelling like a fresh snowflake....
naturall snow beats all guns exept! the one and only hkd turbo. 225 foot throw high production low e. oh she is epic on of those will take care of the wole base area. I was in france and they got no natural. then in two night they got 40 acress in 2 nights on the base. Its the gun that was invented at seven spring.
scottyb wrote:
LOL...but thats old school Scotty......torch it!!........my bad...ouch...haha X 1,000,000,000
They should hold a snow man hostage and threaten to cut off his head if no moneys by 4.30.
fishnski wrote:
They have enough snowmaking...its not that large of an area to cover..sure..more is always better but I have seen how much snow they can blow..when they want to...pretty impressive at times!......TL and Canaan have been spoiled by mama nature over the years and they only spend as little as they can blowing figuring that one or two storms will come along and they will come out smelling like a fresh snowflake....
Nah! Major league pipe leaks this winter. Jed Clampett style, but not leaking liquid gold. Git yer beach bum arse up to the Alpps!
OK Timberline4SR, some questions.
With input of "crowd-funding" money, are you willing to open up the books? Are you willing to document your accounting system? Why should I invest with someone whose previous financial track record has frankly sucked?
Is there a legal guarantee as to how any "crowd-funding" money will be spent?
JohnL wrote:
OK Timberline4SR, some questions.
With input of "crowd-funding" money, are you willing to open up the books? Are you willing to document your accounting system? Why should I invest with someone whose previous financial track record has frankly sucked?
Is there a legal guarantee as to how any "crowd-funding" money will be spent?
What he said! Why not just burn my money instead?
you all should just stop beating a dead horse and hang it up and go cross-country skiing......actual REAL skiing with no bashing, egos or fluff, yet inexpensive, very healthy and rewarding. you can ski anywhere there is snow up, down and all around.
JohnL wrote:
OK Timberline4SR, some questions.
With input of "crowd-funding" money, are you willing to open up the books? Are you willing to document your accounting system? Why should I invest with someone whose previous financial track record has frankly sucked?
Is there a legal guarantee as to how any "crowd-funding" money will be spent?
This first phase of the crowdfunding campaign allows contributors to received lift tickets, lodging, and/or rentals valued in excess of what they contribute, and Timberline is tracking all funds contributed in this manner (as you can see on the snowfunding.com website home page). In all actuality, the capital that Timberline will invest will far exceed the modest crowdfunding goal that was set. This campaign was designed as a way to garner customer input and to offer our customers a way to see themselves as stakeholders, without asking for something for nothing.
The next phase of the crowdfunding campaign will be an equity based campaign to raise the money needed to make improvements. We are currently structuring that equity vehicle and getting all the financials needed to include in that offering. Those that invest in that vehicle will have access to the financials tied to that vehicle, and as equity investors will have continued access to updated financial reporting.
Timberline, have you reached out to the major skiing magazines such as Powder, Freeskier, Ski and Skiing? I think skiers across the country would find interest in a story about Timberline and what you guys are trying to do.
Droogie wrote:
Timberline, have you reached out to the major skiing magazines such as Powder, Freeskier, Ski and Skiing? I think skiers across the country would find interest in a story about Timberline and what you guys are trying to do.
We have via social media, and we have sent out a press release on PR Wire. But any help we can get spreading the word is welcome. :)
Timberline, have you reached out to your passholders and asked them how they feel about the mountain closing early this year in order to accomodate non-pass owners and their snowmobiles?
Hopefully all the season pass holders who paid 399? for a pass last year take you up on the $199 offer on you snowfunding site. Brilliant!
On behalf of the silent majority of readers (who keep pointing out to me that they're sick and tired of seeing the same handful of folks beating a dead horse on DCSki), I'd like to respectfully ask people to keep their snark and negativity in check. If you don't like a particular resort, vote with your feet and go to another one. If you have authentic, constructive suggestions, by all means share them. But this sarcasm and constant negativity is really starting to annoy DCSki readers who frequent resorts throughout the Mid-Atlantic. Seriously, it's getting old. DCSki is about celebrating winter recreation and building a bond with others who are passionate about the sport, and this negativity and snark is driving readers away who are coming to DCSki hoping to learn more about skiing and participate in constructive conversations. I respect all of you and expect better than that.
Reisen wrote:
IMO, you go two directions:
1. Skiing is a capital intensive business, we all know that. Especially in the mid-Atlantic, where you need reliable snowmaking. Bring in outside capital by either taking on partners, or selling. Completely revamp the place, and turn it into the next Snowshoe, only newer, and closer to DC and Pittsburgh. If not snowshoe, think Massanutten. Add lodging, a pool complex, a Starbucks, etc. Totally different ambience, but that would allow you to massively upgrade the lifts, base area, and snowmaking.
2. Turn it into the next MRG or Magic Mountain. Sell some portion of equity to your customers as a co-op. Give them a true stake in it in exchange for raising capital. This is risky, and could be an absolute mess for both sides if not done 100% perfectly.
2. Didn't Magic co-op go real bad? Donors lost their money? MRG is obviously the co-op home run in the ski industry and mebbe all industries. Caveat Emptor.
1. Sounds good on paper, but not sure it's possible. Others can correct me if I'm wrong. Ski area boundaries are constrained by wilderness/conservation (right classification?) areas on several sides, most importantly the next peak towards Route 32 which would be a prime spot for expansion. Base area expansion limited by other-party ownership of adjoining land. Would need to buy them out, which could cost $$$, if they were willing to sell. Canaan Valley is an environmentally-sensitive area, so not sure what restrictions on major new development there would be, especially regarding wastewater, added density, etc. Likely to be a political nightmare if a Snowshoe-scale development were proposed.
jimmy wrote:
Hopefully all the season pass holders who paid 399? for a pass last year take you up on the $199 offer on you snowfunding site. Brilliant!
$300 for rest of season? $199 excludes Saturdays (for rest of season also?)
I do agree that the loyal season pass holders who provide the early capital to keep things running (or pay last year's bills) are getting slighted a bit. But unfortunately that happens a lot in bidness to loyal customers. Taken for granted.
RodneyBD wrote:
Timberline, have you reached out to your passholders and asked them how they feel about the mountain closing early this year in order to accomodate non-pass owners and their snowmobiles?
OK Timberline4SR, this is a legitimate point. While you are obviously trying to buy goodwill with your snowfunding campaign, closing one week early is really ticking off your existing customer base who have been paying your bills for the past decades. What say you?
This Thread reminds me of an Alan Jackson song
"Way down yonder........................."
JohnL wrote:
RodneyBD wrote:
Timberline, have you reached out to your passholders and asked them how they feel about the mountain closing early this year in order to accomodate non-pass owners and their snowmobiles?
OK Timberline4SR, this is a legitimate point. While you are obviously trying to buy goodwill with your snowfunding campaign, closing one week early is really ticking off your existing customer base who have been paying your bills for the past decades. What say you?
In order to accommodate all segments of its clientele Timberline has for years stayed open as long as any other resort in the southeast. Regarding the question as to whether Timberline's customers want us to stay open that late they have already cast their votes on this issue. We've found repeatedly over the years that despite concerted late season marketing efforts to draw in business the vast majority of Timberline skiers are decidedly uninterested in skiing at the very end of March. While there are a few regular "Timberline skiers" who do come out they are mostly locals. Then there are a few of those die-hard skiers who follow the snow north on those last remaining areas in the east which still have snow. Therefore, the effort to ski that late in the season is almost exclusively for the benefit of marketing, not for the benefit of the typical Timberline customer who is by that time putting away the skis and taking out the golf clubs.
jimmy wrote:
This Thread reminds me of an Alan Jackson song
"Way down yonder.........................
:-) I think I like that song.
Do you think truncating the season on the front and back ends is a way to keep your customers (who have supported you over the past 25 years) happy and wanting to further support your operations???
Why not open on weekends only and close Monday-Thursday for the late season?
Timberline4SR wrote:
JohnL wrote:
RodneyBD wrote:
Timberline, have you reached out to your passholders and asked them how they feel about the mountain closing early this year in order to accomodate non-pass owners and their snowmobiles?
OK Timberline4SR, this is a legitimate point. While you are obviously trying to buy goodwill with your snowfunding campaign, closing one week early is really ticking off your existing customer base who have been paying your bills for the past decades. What say you?
In order to accommodate all segments of its clientele Timberline has for years stayed open as long as any other resort in the southeast. Regarding the question as to whether Timberline's customers want us to stay open that late they have already cast their votes on this issue. We've found repeatedly over the years that despite concerted late season marketing efforts to draw in business the vast majority of Timberline skiers are decidedly uninterested in skiing at the very end of March. While there are a few regular "Timberline skiers" who do come out they are mostly locals. Then there are a few of those die-hard skiers who follow the snow north on those last remaining areas in the east which still have snow. Therefore, the effort to ski that late in the season is almost exclusively for the benefit of marketing, not for the benefit of the typical Timberline customer who is by that time putting away the skis and taking out the golf clubs.
Timberliner - you should replace locals with Season Pass Holders. I know the majority of season pass holders at the mountain and we almost all ski each of the weekends in March. So when you cut the season short you are effectively charging us more for less product. So sure if you look at daily ticket sales it doesn't make sense to stay open until the end of March. But of course as you degrade the product people will start to make decisions to buy passes elsewhere. This type of behavior won't show up in the data until you start to observe changes or stagnation in season pass purchases. For example, this might be the marginal effect that makes me purchase a family pass at Snowshoe instead of Timberline. Also, by your logic the resort shouldn't open during the week during the season because except for holiday weeks there is very little week day business. The same would be true of night skiing. If you polled the season pass holder (who surely spend more at the resort than anyother skiers) they would surely trade night skiing for an extra couple of weeks open at the end of the season. It has been noticed by your core patrons that all the mobile snowmaking equipment has been pulled from the mountain. Once again, stopping making snow in early February may make short term financial sense but don't think it goes unnoticed by your main customers. These things add up and end up turning your best customers into your biggest critics. I suggest you take a look over at Whitegrass and look how much good faith Chip Chase has engendered in his clientele. He loves skiing and his patrons know this. Because of this we are all basically free salesman for Whitegrass. We all will push our friends to visit there without reservation. The same can't be said of TLine unfortunately. I guarantee Chip makes more money per visit than Timberline because he sells good, healthful food and provides a fantastic ambiance for people to hang around enjoy apres ski. It has a skiers vibe. Sometimes my wife and I actually go eat lunch at Whitegrass in the middle of a Tline ski day! So go ahead and think all of this doesn't matter to your customers but it does.
All that is true...but Chip's cost of being open per day at WG is a fraction of the cost of running T'line for a day. Yes if they had more capital they could make investments (such as being open into April, snowmaking in March, etc) to cultivate loyalty of their most committed customer base. But at least at present, they just don't have the resources. So then the hard reality kicks in that most people in this region think skiing is something you do in Jan and Feb. Wish it weren't so, but it is. Could move to Boston or Denver or SLC or Portland or Seattle and have a longer season. But not here. (BTW I am a T'line season passholder and homeowner so this is not how I wish things would be.)
The food, OTOH, is another matter entirely.
Norsk - you are a homeowner so you are stuck. But a bunch of us that are season pass holder dont' own, instead we rent. For instance I'm paying for a weekend rental in March this year when the mountain will be closed. I might decide to buy a pass at Whitetail and ski weekends which is what I did 10 years ago. I know for a fact that Teleman (the post above) is renting for the first time at Timberline. For the last 15 years he has done the Whitetail thing. So it is a fools way of running an operation to just look at your revenues and costs for a particular time period and say it makes sense to stay closed or open based on that calculus. Season pass holders buy a package. That is why we pay bucks up front. Snowmaking in March... ha. More like stop making snow in February. Take a look at the runs - do you see any mobile snowmakers out anymore. Check out how many folks are skiing Friday night at 9:00. I bet a dozen Boy Scouts that are paying almost nothing for a weekend of skiing. And the point isn't about Chips cost structure it is about how he treats his customers and how they treat him in return. I'm not feeling sorry for Tline having capital issues. The reason they have those issues are due to the exact issues that people are complaining about here. What Tline should ask is why a person like myself is so ticked off. Search on my name and you will see that I have consistently promoted their programs on this webpage.
The compressed seasonis a result of a lack of publicity and special or package promotions. Many mountains offer specials on pricing and advertise those specials in a media market such as what the Snotime resorts do. Snowshoe used to promote a 50% off lift ticket for late season weekend days knowing that they would make up the difference in other customer services such as food and beverage. keeping the resort open through the last weekend of March a couple of seasons ago when it was previously announced they would be closed saw a huge increase in skier visits for that week due to a late season consecutive day snowfall. Sure, it's ususally the die-hards but why lose that market base to other regional mpuntains when most would make the drive to the best terrain in the mid atlantic. Social media only works if people know what to look for. Use traditional media as the lure to the social media links in the beginning of March with a cost saving lure and business would improve. Back in the 90s closing date was mid April if there was still snow. Now we are looking at mid March? This is no better than the Virginia ski areas and will probably be a shorter season since they open earlier and close at the end of the month if they can make it.
I don't consider any of this to be snarky because it lend itself to lively discussions of customer opions.
I've spoken with representatives at many resorts throughout West Virginia, Virginia, and Pennsylvania, and they all bemoan the fact that skiers literally dry up in March as soon as the weather at lower elevations turns warm. This is a phenomenon that has occurred in the Mid-Atlantic as long as I remember, and has been covered by DCSki writers for years as we've encouraged people to KEEP SKIING as long as there's snow! I've seen the numbers. Even when there is ample snow on the slopes, resorts unfortunately cross a financial point where staying open would result in a financial loss.
Why is this? Because it's extremely expensive to maintain the full staffing level necessary to keep the resort open. In mid-winter, there are some "light" days where local resorts don't break even, but they try very hard to keep operations running uninterrupted. Towards the end of the season, the economics just don't work out. And yes, season passholders aren't ringing up sales at the lift ticket window at the end of the season, so the benefits they bring are limited to the food they may buy, the places they may rent, the non-season passholder friends they bring, and the goodwill that might encourage them to buy a pass the next season.
Since weather is finicky in the Mid-Atlantic, in lean years, resorts have barely eeked out a profit by the time they hit March. In banner years, resorts are more likely to stay open those few extra days to appease die-hard skiers. Usually closing dates aren't set in stone in advance, though -- as resorts head into March they pull up the spreadsheets, look at daily visits, and before long the optimal closing date becomes obvious. And, sadly, that date is always sooner than we, or the resorts, would like.
Scott wrote:
I've spoken with representatives at many resorts throughout West Virginia, Virginia, and Pennsylvania, and they all bemoan the fact that skiers literally dry up in March as soon as the weather at lower elevations turns warm. This is a phenomenon that has occurred in the Mid-Atlantic as long as I remember, and has been covered by DCSki writers for years as we've encouraged people to KEEP SKIING as long as there's snow! I've seen the numbers. Even when there is ample snow on the slopes, resorts unfortunately cross a financial point where staying open would result in a financial los
Why is this? Because it's extremely expensive to maintain the full staffing level necessary to keep the resort open. In mid-winter, there are some "light" days where local resorts don't break even, but they try very hard to keep operations running uninterrupted. Towards the end of the season, the economics just don't work out. And yes, season passholders aren't ringing up sales at the lift ticket window at the end of the season, so the benefits they bring are limited to the food they may buy, the places they may rent, the non-season passholder friends they bring, and the goodwill that might encourage them to buy a pass the next season.
Since weather is finicky in the Mid-Atlantic, in lean years, resorts have barely eeked out a profit by the time they hit March. In banner years, resorts are more likely to stay open those few extra days to appease die-hard skiers. Usually closing dates aren't set in stone in advance, though -- as resorts head into March they pull up the spreadsheets, look at daily visits, and before long the optimal closing date becomes obvious. And, sadly, that date is always sooner than we, or the resorts, would like.
Scott,
My point exactly. If certain areas were to market themselves correctly and apppeal to the general public that it's not a good thing to plant potatoes and lettuce I believe that there can be a change in the mentality of all skiers in the mid athlantic to seek the late season goodeis and support the local mountains. Who is pushing this in our area? NOBODY! I rest my point, but think that is there was any type of marketing it would be successful.
Scott - I think you are missing the point. Probably most resorts make very little money in March unless they have great snow event years. But if Timberline cuts anymore of March then I might substitute Whitetail and a couple of trips out west for my season pass and house rental. And this isn't just a Mid Atlantic phenomenon. It happens everywhere. I've been a season pass holder for 8 years at TL and they always were open until end of March at least. If they changed their policy they should have posted it before we sent our money in during May. During November they were still showing events scheduled for that last week on their web page. The point is customers have listed several ways to tighten down the ship to make up the money it may cost to keep open that final week. I will take a drive by the resort on Friday nite and see how many people they have skiing,
TomH wrote:
Scott - I think you are missing the point. Probably most resorts make very little money in March unless they have great snow event years. But if Timberline cuts anymore of March then I might substitute Whitetail and a couple of trips out west for my season pass and house rental. And this isn't just a Mid Atlantic phenomenon. It happens everywhere. I've been a season pass holder for 8 years at TL and they always were open until end of March at least. If they changed their policy they should have posted it before we sent our money in during May. During November they were still showing events scheduled for that last week on their web page. The point is customers have listed several ways to tighten down the ship to make up the money it may cost to keep open that final week. I will take a drive by the resort on Friday nite and see how many people they have skiing,
No, I got it. I was merely trying to provide some perspective on the business dynamics at play. As I said, most resorts "play it by ear" once it gets late in the season and sometimes make the final closing decision with little to no notice. I'm speaking generally. Although resorts often schedule events into March, back when DCSki had its Event Schedule, we put a strong disclaimer about late-season events because many of them never ended up happening. Lots of pond-skimming contests have been canceled because the slopes turned into ponds sooner than expected. ;)
There's also a competitive game that resorts play in the late season. Because there are still the die-hard skiers, if one resort remains the only one open and does a big/expensive marketing push, they *might* get "crossover" visits from people who might not otherwise ski there, so the numbers go up because suddenly there's no more competition. But that's a big gamble to make. And you have to have the snow product on the slopes to play at that table; thin cover won't cut it. Again, those decisions are made late in the season.
Again, these are generalities. While it's easy to think up suggestions ("market more!"), I know that the last week of the season has always been brutal and challenging for every resort and picking a closing date is one of the toughest choices they make the entire year. And there's no avoiding the fact that once it hits 60 degrees, the *vast* majority of a resort's customer base is done with the season, no matter what.
I understand Timberline has historically published later closing dates and has usually been able to stay open until those dates, and season passholders going in with that assumption are disappointed, given that the number of ski weeks in the Mid-Atlantic is preciously few.
TomH wrote:
And the point isn't about Chips cost structure it is about how he treats his customers and how they treat him in return.
It's the customer and the customers' skiing expirience that is the #1 priority no matter what at wg. as great as possible trail conditions, to as best as possible lodge conditions. Yes, it's not about how much it costs to run a place, it is HOW you run the place....period. I see no reason for a resort around here to be failing unless they want it to fail or it's grossly mis-managed. Both those scenarios won't and/or should not get anyones sympathy or donations. History speaks for itself in this regard for any resort in area. Read what you want into that and kill this thread! :)
With Corridor H almost complete, Canaan Valley should have more and more skiers each year, not fewer and fewer. It's a great opportunity but it seems like it's not being taken advantage of.
eggraid wrote:
With Corridor H almost complete, Canaan Valley should have more and more skiers each year, not fewer and fewer. It's a great opportunity but it seems like it's not being taken advantage of.
I think canaan valley resort ski area will be dropping a bomb very soon in regards to season passes that will surely attract ample new business to their ski area
Season Pass $199 booya
snapdragon wrote:
Season Pass $199 booya
Perhaps we should be careful about what we wish for:
http://www.outsideonline.com/snow/snow-report/Race-to-the-Bottom-Ski-Resort-Combo-Passes.html
So basically the small resorts are getting "Walmarted". Buying local at a larger price only works if you are providing a better product. It really sucks, but maybe, just maybe it will get the smaller places to make better decisions and give people a reason to buy local. This idea is working well for the craft beer industry.
KeithT wrote:
snapdragon wrote:
Season Pass $199 booya
Perhaps we should be careful about what we wish for:
http://www.outsideonline.com/snow/snow-report/Race-to-the-Bottom-Ski-Resort-Combo-Passes.html
Interesting article. Thanks for sharing!
Exactly; former CEO of Intrawest stated the following:
"Looking forward, Bill Jensen, former CEO of Intrawest, gave an overall health assessement of 470 U.S. ski areas based on their EBITA, access to capital, maintenance investments, and the economics and demographics of their local communities. Jensen said 150 ski areas are in the "sunset of their existence" and estimated that 6 to 8 million skiers and snowboarder visits are potentially at stake. He called on larger, healthier resorts to ally with smaller, threatened ski areas in order to maintain the overall health of the industry and participation in the sport."
http://www.saminfo.com/news/halftime-huddle-tourism-ski-industry-execs-assemble-sia-show
Perhaps we should be careful about what we wish for:
http://www.outsideonline.com/snow/snow-report/Race-to-the-Bottom-Ski-Resort-Combo-Passes.html
So are the season passes purchased from the http://www.snowfunding.com/ site for the current ski season only? Are they also good for next ski season?
JohnL wrote:
So are the season passes purchased from the http://www.snowfunding.com/ site for the current ski season only? Are they also good for next ski season?
I was trying to figure out the same thing. I looked at it for 5 minutes, 10 different ways and couldn't figure out either way for certain.
JohnL wrote:
So are the season passes purchased from the http://www.snowfunding.com/ site for the current ski season only? Are they also good for next ski season?
At this point, the snowfunding passes are only valid for this season, but we are discussing discounted rates for next -- we just have to crunch some numbers first to see what makes sense.
David wrote:
JohnL wrote:
So are the season passes purchased from the http://www.snowfunding.com/ site for the current ski season only? Are they also good for next ski season?
I was trying to figure out the same thing. I looked at it for 5 minutes, 10 different ways and couldn't figure out either way for certain.
Snowfunding.com now has discounted passes for next year.
