hockeydave,

That's an incredibly shallow argument. That human action can and does affect climate, does not prevent a myriad of other natural phenomena from doing so as well. Volcanic action has major effects. Changes in solar radiation intensity. Probably even continental drift and anything else that can affect ocean currents since they are responsible for shuttling a lot of heat around.

If we can see that we are affecting climate in a way that is likely to be detrimental to our own existence, then we should do something about it. Sure, maybe a super volcano or a comet will make all our efforts moot in the end, but personally I don't drink arsenic and then count on a car accident killing me first.

I'll jump in.

snowsmith, nothing of what you quote is disproven.

Assuming, however, that human-sourced gas is the only factor, or even the biggest factor affecting overall heating, let alone local temperature trends, is not scientific but symptomatic of media-driven agenda.

Let's say human-source gas emission heating is like a space heater in a house. It's too hot in the house, but we can't turn it off. Oof, we're sweltering here. Well, winter arrives and temperatures plummet to 10F. That space heater is still on, heating its little heart out, but the house is still half-freezing. Especially if the wind shifts and blows directly on the picture glass windows.

Have I set the scene enough yet? On to the story.

A person walks in and notices that the house is cold. The resident immediately jumps on the visitor and starts beating the visitor for daring to imply that the residents do not have a problem with a space heater they can't unplug anymore.

You know Operation Coondog was a federal anti-crime operation in the SW part of the great Commonwealth of Virginia?

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/vaw/press_releases/coondog_06feb2007.html

Hmmmmm, interesting, i did not know about that.

Just the day before last, i learned from a Congressman from Massachuesssts that the global warmings were to blame for the Blackhawk Down incident in, was that in Somalia? Guessin he'll be up for a Nobell soon enough .

I had to go to Abingdon and testify for the prosecution on that...

I just presented data, if it is in fact to be believed, that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that humans had absolutely zero impact on changes in Greenland's temperature prior to the onset of the Industrial Age (unless you include the impact from methane as a by-product of defecation). Shallow argument... HARDLY!

Secondly, I'll make the assumption that Earth is warming strictly because of us. Here's my theory on how Earth will correct "our" problem, even without our intervention. Increase in temperature causes more ocean evaporation. Evaporation causes more clouds. Clouds block sunlight. Lack of sunlight cools Earth. George Carlin was right... self correcting system (see the link in a previous post), even without the superior species intervention. Wonderful, isn't it?

Oh, by the way, plant life thrives on CO2. Several scientific studies, although I'm sure these are subject to change, indicate the Earth is getting greener due to higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. I for one like trees. Nothing like them, especially in a fireplace on a cool day (it never gets cold anymore).

You didn't address what I said at all. Yes, there were climate variations prior to human intervention. That does not in any way prove that a significant portion of current climate variations are not due to human activity. Climate variation has never been, nor never will be, due to a single cause. We have simply added another contributer that is pushing it in one direction. If you had a flag flapping in the breeze and then I put an big fan next to it, would you claim that my fan has nothing to do with the motion of the flag just because it was also moving before I placed it there?

To your second paragraph, increased temperature also melts ice, increasing sunlight absorption in most of the spectrum (water and dirt are darker than snow and ice), thus warming Earth. We can all spout off on our ignorance all day. When given the choice, I'm going to side with the people that have the knowledge and tools and have spent years applying them to the data over a random guy in the internet who thinks he can disprove years of research in two sentences (You're free to feel the same about me, except for the siding with the scientists part.).

Plants do indeed like CO2. If you look at the history of the planet, there were many times when the planet was much greener (think dinosaurs). They also mostly correlate with much higher CO2 levels and much higher average temperatures. Though I like trees, even their shade wouldn't make it livable if the average temperature around here went up 10C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesozoic

I agree with you 100% that the earth will make adjustments based on the conservation of energy principle. However, this may take hundreds of years.
Most of the theories on global warming assume that like feeding pigs we'll remain at the fossil fuel trough feeding until we're fat. However, based on the extensive research that I have read, we're approaching or have passed 'peak oil'. Thus we're going to have to find another source of energy. Of course the USA is the Saudi Arabia of coal and there is oil shale out west which hold lots of oil but very expensive and energy intensive to extract.
What drives me crazy is that there is a huge, world wide scientific community out there that has done very extensive research on this and yet, I keep hearing the same old bull from people who quote that artic sea ice has returned in the winter ( a - dah!) and other irrelevant BS because they don't believe the global warming theory. But they have no facts what so ever to present that global warming is not in fact an issue that we need to be concerned about. You can't refute that the amount of CO2 has increased in the atmosphere. Period!

If arctic sea ice is returning, then it is returning. That is what the original thread was about, and bringing manmade gases into the discussion is irrelevant.



Nobody was even bothering to try. That is your straw man argument.

I swear... if the Potomac freezes over in 10 years with snow starting as early as first of October, I'm going to be laughing so hard I'll have to stop on timberlines new 6 mile long trail. :P